HJ 12 E Anti Tank Next Gen Fire and forget missile launchers for Pakistan army

[CSAW]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1565554612152766464

https://twitter.com/x/status/1566324625662943232

 

[Super Falcon]

Pakistan army has these systems now but it takes few more parades that finally unveil them

 

[Beast]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1565554612152766464

https://twitter.com/x/status/1566324625662943232

The Russia until now still can't produced a fire and forget ATGM. The auto target acquisition chips inside required are much more complicated to build.

 

[White and Green with M/S]

Brother Pakistan has bought few for testing months ago soon we will get them but these kept news under the carpet for shock in war for enemy

What's your source brother

Pakistan army has these systems now but it takes few more parades that finally unveil them

Source???

 

[Genghis khan1]

PA most probably already have it. if not, they can always airlift few thousand in matter of hours, if sh!t really starting to hit the fan.

 

[IblinI]

our fourth gen is around the corner aswell.

 

[Farhan Bohra]

AK-1 has rather poor overall armor, the AK series in general does. It has decent base armor (HHS steel+composites) but outdated ERA and an extremely poor design. This means that while it’s frontal arc is pretty well protected, anything even slightly to the side will go right through it like butter. This is perhaps the only thing the T90S might outdo the Al-Khalid series in; armor protection. AK has plenty of other strengths however.

VT-4 has very strong base armor and modern ERA, giving it rather exceptional frontal protection, but Carries forward the same extremely poor design, so it has that exact same issue as above; poor side armor. This is imo the only flaw in the VT-4, otherwise it’s an exceptional tank for the region.

Neither will withstand any sort of hit from an ATGM unless it impacts the thickest part of the armor/ERA. Only Hard kill active protection systems can save a tank from that. Keep in mind this equally applies to Indias Russian-origin tanks, which while having much better designs (which means their frontal armor arcs, the thickest part of their armor, is considerably larger than Pakistani tanks), also lack modern ERA and have only marginally better side protection, and both countries lack active protection systems.

The Silver lining for the PA here is that IA does not employ any sort of modern APFSDS ammo on its tanks, meaning Indian T90S and T72 tanks will have trouble penetrating anything that’s not a 1st or 2nd generation tank. OTOH PA employs modern APFSDS on all of its tanks, which means even an Al-Zarrar can penetrate a T90S under most conditions. Then again, IA has an advantage in the ATGMs and gunships right now, but PA and PAF has the advantage in UCAVs.

As you can see, there are many factors at play, the balance keeps shifting, nothing is definitive, a lot of it comes down to planning.

3BM42 - SBWiki

www.steelbeasts.com

India successfully tests 125-millimetre Mango shells for T-72, T-90 tanks

These shells are 125 mm round with an armor-piercing sub-caliber round for use with the T-72 and T-90 tanks in service with the Indian Army.

zeenews.india.com

March 27/14: Tank shells. India’s Ministry of Defence signs a deal with Russia’s Rosoboronexport for 125 mm 3VBM17 anti-tank shells. Previous reports had cited 66,000 shells, and INR 26 billion is about at $432.7 million at current exchange, making each shot worth about $6,556.

India Moves to Boost Anti-Tank Capabilities - Defense Industry Daily

Indian T-90S(click to view full) India's armed forces have been complaining of a severe shortage of tank ammunition, and the fleet's new T-90 tanks have had their share of problems. In 2012, India's Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) began moving to patch these gaps, by approving budgets for a...

www.defenseindustrydaily.com

 

[iLION12345_1]

3BM42 - SBWiki

www.steelbeasts.com

India successfully tests 125-millimetre Mango shells for T-72, T-90 tanks

These shells are 125 mm round with an armor-piercing sub-caliber round for use with the T-72 and T-90 tanks in service with the Indian Army.

zeenews.india.com

India Moves to Boost Anti-Tank Capabilities - Defense Industry Daily

Indian T-90S(click to view full) India's armed forces have been complaining of a severe shortage of tank ammunition, and the fleet's new T-90 tanks have had their share of problems. In 2012, India's Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) began moving to patch these gaps, by approving budgets for a...

www.defenseindustrydaily.com

View attachment 886876

Thank you for providing sources to back up the things I said. You just posted news articles saying india is buying BM42, just as I said. Literally obsolete ammunition.

 

[Farhan Bohra]

Thank you for providing sources to back up the things I said. You just posted news articles saying india is buying BM42, just as I said. Literally obsolete ammunition.

This is I think the leaked APFSDS of China, how Mango rounds are obsolete? Is the tungesten in those rounds are rusted?

And indeed there were some QA issues with OFB-produced rounds,, that's why this time they gave the order to a private company.

125mm APFSDS Tank Ammunition

oshocorp.com

 

[iLION12345_1]

View attachment 886891

This is I think the leaked APFSDS of China, how Mango rounds are obsolete? Is the tungesten in those rounds are rusted?

View attachment 886892

And indeed there were some QA issues with OFB-produced rounds,, that's why this time they gave the order to a private company.

125mm APFSDS Tank Ammunition

oshocorp.com

The BM42 mango round is from the 80s. That’s how it’s obsolete. India is inducting it in 2019 onwards (and massively overpaying for them might I add).
Pakistan had the same armmo in the 90s through Ukraine and was making equivalent APFSDS/T as well.
BM42 is rated for 460MM/0 deg at 2KM.

Naiza is rated at 550MM/0 Deg at 2KM. Pakistan has been making Naiza since 2002. BTA-4 is rated at 600MM/0 Deg at 2KM. Pakistan got those with the VT-4 Acquisition and can fire it from all of its 125MM equipped tanks apart from the Al-Zarrar. The DTC10 is rated for 650MM+, don’t show me a forum post as proof.

Half the Indian fleet cannot even use the BM-42 and uses the even older BM-17.

The Arjun’s MK1 APFSDS (the one that actually got inducted) has 300MM/0 Deg at 2KM.

yes the newer Indian 125MM ones have 550MM/0 deg at 2KM, but there there is no confirmation of induction of them at all, it is still inferior to what Pakistan had in the early 2000s, is only fireable from half of Indias fleet, and is still not as good as the BTA-4. Do I need to go on?

 

[Farhan Bohra]

The BM42 mango round is from the 80s. That’s how it’s obsolete. India is inducting it in 2018 onwards. Pakistan had it in the 90s through Ukraine and was making equivalent APFSDS/T as well.
BM42 is rated for 460MM/0 deg at 2KM.

Naiza is rated at 550MM/0 Deg at 2KM. Pakistan has been making Naiza since 2002. BTA-4 is rated at 600MM/0 Deg at 2KM. Pakistan got those with the VT-4 Acquisition and can fire it from all of its 125MM equipped tanks apart from the Al-Zarrar. The DTC10 is rated for 650MM+, don’t show me a forum post as proof.

Half the Indian fleet cannot even use the BM-42 and uses the even older BM-17.

The Arjun’s MK1 APFSDS (the one that actually got inducted) has 300MM/0 Deg at 2KM.

yes the newer Indian 125MM ones have 550MM/0 deg at 2KM, but there there is no confirmation of induction of them at all, it is still inferior to what Pakistan had in the early 2000s, is only fireable from half of Indias fleet, and is still not as good as the BTA-4. Do I need to go on?

Firstly, these are not newer rounds, you don't even know what you are blabbering about, the datasheet is from early 2000 when those rounds failed the QA test. These are not Mk2 rounds.

Second, what is the logic that a product from the 80s is obsolete? So M4s are obsolete or B-52? And as for inventory, as I have shown the 2014 order is of the size of 66000 rounds, for T-72 and T-90, which half of the fleet?

Here he detailed it beautifully

https://twitter.com/x/status/1158387153518227457

, don’t show me a forum post as proof.

You don't even know the difference between Reddit posts and forums. And of you try to read they actually saying 680 mm. I mean wow.

 

[Metal 0-1]

You don't even know the difference between Reddit posts and forums. And of you try to read they actually saying 680 mm. I mean wow.

Of course Reddit is true source for any kind of information

 

[Farhan Bohra]

Of course Reddit is true source for any kind of information

so 680 mm is false? hmm, might be it is 300 mm. You are right.

logo mein dimag ki kami ho gayi hai.

 

[Metal 0-1]

so 680 mm is false? hmm, might be it is 300 mm. You are right.

logo mein dimag ki kami ho gayi hai.

Not saying if anyone is right or wrong


Anyways
Found the leaked document you're referring to

 

[Ali_Baba]

Pakistan army has these systems now but it takes few more parades that finally unveil them

I think most of us are "done with Pakistan Army Parades" - i mean - what is the point if it just takes 1 telephone call from a low grade American bureacrat for them to all turn around and bend over ?