HIT involved in KTO 8x8 AFV project

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

The Polish text mentioned KTO 8x8.



http://www.rosomaksa.pl/kto-rosomak-wersja-bojowa.html

Can't think of many reasons why except for maybe the Patria AMV platform being proven and widely adopted. But from the quotes I've seen, the Patria is pretty pricey (certainly more so than the VN1 and Otokar Arma). That said, Slovakia apparently has a version which was adjusted to lower costs, so it might be doable. OTOH there is also the factor of the Patria being used by a lot of countries now, so HIT might be able to generate earnings by entering the supply chain.

http://www.janes.com/article/76424/slovakia-unveils-bov-8x8-ifv

 

[KapitaanAli]

Hulls of all these vehicles are starting to look the same.

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

It seems Pakistani defence planners are moving away from off the shelf acquisition and towards ToT or JVs. Dont you think so??
BTW hows your Premium experiment going??? Yielding good dividends I hope?

Can't think of many reasons why except for maybe the Patria AMV platform being proven and widely adopted. But from the quotes I've seen, the Patria is pretty pricey (certainly more so than the VN1 and Otokar Arma). That said, Slovakia apparently has a version which was adjusted to lower costs, so it might be doable. OTOH there is also the factor of the Patria being used by a lot of countries now, so HIT might be able to generate earnings by entering the supply chain.

http://www.janes.com/article/76424/slovakia-unveils-bov-8x8-ifv

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

It seems Pakistani defence planners are moving away from off the shelf acquisition and towards ToT or JVs. Dont you think so??

Partnerships and (if three or more are involved) consortiums are the way forward - i.e. share overheads, guarantee scale and cross-benefit from each party's orders. Re: the KTO 8x8 specifically, the Patria AMV is certainly the more expensive option vs. the Otokar Arma and NORINCO VN1. However, it's also more widely adopted than those 8x8s, and I reckon the spare parts, maintenance and support scene could be lucrative if HIT steps in as an option for low-cost solutions (thus lowering overall costs for all other Patria users).

Premium is going well, Alhamdulillah. Insh'Allah the "Q" will be seen at DIMDEX, Farnborough, AAD and IDEAS

 

[Gryphon]

Can't think of many reasons why except for maybe the Patria AMV platform being proven and widely adopted. But from the quotes I've seen, the Patria is pretty pricey (certainly more so than the VN1 and Otokar Arma). That said, Slovakia apparently has a version which was adjusted to lower costs, so it might be doable. OTOH there is also the factor of the Patria being used by a lot of countries now, so HIT might be able to generate earnings by entering the supply chain.

http://www.janes.com/article/76424/slovakia-unveils-bov-8x8-ifv

PA will stick to the M113 platform for troop transport, the number of those acquired second hand in last few years is too large.

Any 8x8 AFV, just like 4x4 Dragoon, will just be assembled and marketed to SF, LEA's/police, ASF,etc.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

PA will stick to the M113 platform for troop transport, the number of those acquired second hand in last few years is too large.

Any 8x8 AFV, just like 4x4 Dragoon, will just be assembled and marketed to SF, LEA's/police, ASF,etc.

There are two parts to it. First, there is the cost of bringing a production line - be it just assembly or actual co-manufacturing - and second, induction in the domestic market. IMO the latter need not be impossible, they can stage a very, very, very long-term procurement plan through 25-30+ years.

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

It'll be a mistake not to adopt a wheeled platform. What is US or Afghanis/Indians decide to ignite Western theater??

PA will stick to the M113 platform for troop transport, the number of those acquired second hand in last few years is too large.

Any 8x8 AFV, just like 4x4 Dragoon, will just be assembled and marketed to SF, LEA's/police, ASF,etc.

Masha Allah BarakAllah feekum.
May the Q continue to prosper. Ameen
May we eventually see who the Mysterious Bilal actually is?? Meaning may we see you do a vlog or a podcast like that European dude did on IDEAS IDEX???

Partnerships and (if three or more are involved) consortiums are the way forward - i.e. share overheads, guarantee scale and cross-benefit from each party's orders. Re: the KTO 8x8 specifically, the Patria AMV is certainly the more expensive option vs. the Otokar Arma and NORINCO VN1. However, it's also more widely adopted than those 8x8s, and I reckon the spare parts, maintenance and support scene could be lucrative if HIT steps in as an option for low-cost solutions (thus lowering overall costs for all other Patria users).

Premium is going well, Alhamdulillah. Insh'Allah the "Q" will be seen at DIMDEX, Farnborough, AAD and IDEAS

 

[Gryphon]

There are two parts to it. First, there is the cost of bringing a production line - be it just assembly or actual co-manufacturing - and second, induction in the domestic market. IMO the latter need not be impossible, they can stage a very, very, very long-term procurement plan through 25-30+ years.

Procurement depends on requirement.

Consider Gujranwala and Lahore Corps AOR, i.e., plains, small hills, boggy land, fields and houses. To mobilize just one infantry battalion, at least 60 vehicles are required. Remember those are infantry heavy formations.

When Musharraf left power, 250+ Al-Khalid's were already in service. In these 10 years of democracy, not even 100 could be built.

On the Western border, I believe MRAP's offer more protection than these 8x8 AFV's.

These are European luxuries - mostly plain lands, small militaries and massive economies.

It'll be a mistake not to adopt a wheeled platform. What is US or Afghanis/Indians decide to ignite Western theater??

 

[Path-Finder]

I think this image is a big clue! Clearly they are looking for a complete soldier system.

http://www.pcosa.com.pl/en/delegations/delegation_from_pakistan-864.html

Delegation from Pakistan
28.11.2017
NEWS > DELEGATIONS

On 28th of November 2017 premises of PCO S.A. were visited by representatives of Heavy Industries Taxila (HIT) from Pakistan.


Delegation was led by the Chairman of HIT - Lt Gen Muhammad Naeem Ashraf. Guests watched a multimedia presentation of Polska Grupa Zbrojeniowa and PCO S.A. They were also acknowledged with most modern optoelectronic devices.

HIT groups most important Pakistani defence factories. It produces, modernizes and develops equipment of the Pakistani army.

 

[Path-Finder]

Polish-Pakistani talks at PGZ

12/04/2017

On Tuesday, November 28, PGZ SA hosted a delegation of Heavy Industries Taxila (HIT), the main producer of land platforms in Pakistan. During the visit, the potential of cooperation in the land platform sector was discussed.

Last Tuesday, an official delegation of Heavy Industries Taxila (HIT) arrived to the headquarters of PGZ. He was headed by HIT Chairman of the Board, Gen. Muhammad Naeem Ashraf. During the three-day visit to Poland, the Pakistani Party held a number of interviews at PGZ SA and visited selected production facilities responsible for land platforms and their equipment within the Group: Rosomaka SA, Huta Stalowa Wola SA, Gliwice Bumar-Łabędy SA and Ośrodek Badawczo - Development of Mechanical Devices (OBRUM) and PCO SA

- Pakistan is a very promising direction for PGZ. Islamabad increases its defense budget with determination, it is a very absorptive market due to the turbulent situation in the region, its armed forces possess equipment of both western and eastern provenance and are perceived by NATO as a serious partner in the Far East. This allows us not only to offer our full range of products, modernization packages, but also to establish partner relations and conduct conversations about the transfer of technology or assembly lines.Unfortunately, I can not reveal details for the moment because of the ongoing negotiations, but several of our solutions have already passed the tests of the Pakistan Armed Forces, reaching very high marks - summed up the member of the management board of PGZ SA, Maciej Lew-Mirski.

During earlier meetings with HTI, the main areas of conversations in the field of land platforms were established. The Pakistani side is interested in cooperating with PGZ in the field of tank modernization (including in the field of optoelectronics and strengthening armor resistance), as well as cooperation in the exchange of experience and potential industrial cooperation in the field of land platforms and simulators supplied to the Polish Armed Forces. Meeting with representatives of Pakistani industry is also to determine the needs and interests of both parties in the field of cooperation in the field of heavy equipment.

Heavy Industries Taxila (HIT) is one of the main enterprises of the Pakistani defense sector, which was founded in 1971. The plants are located in Taxila in the Rawalpindi district in the province of Punjab. HIT has been the main design and production center for armored equipment in Pakistan for many years. The plants included in HIT were responsible for the license production of tanks from the PRC, M113 transporters, armato haubits, and also participated in the development, along with the Chinese Norinco, of the Al-Khalid tank (currently his successor, Al-Khalid 2). HIT is also responsible for the modernization of a number of armored vehicles. Among the R & D programs in which HIT is involved are also works on the development variant of 4x4 Dragoon vehicles, another tank project known as Haider and KTO 8x8.

***

Translated from

Polsko-Pakistańskie rozmowy w PGZ

Belomo sights didn't perform well?

 

[Gryphon]

Belomo sights didn't perform well?

The tests were carried out by IOP, the results of which I am not aware of.

 

[Path-Finder]

The tests were carried out by IOP, the results of which I am not aware of.

http://www.pcosa.com.pl/en/sights/dcm-1_szafir_modular_day_sight-24.html

Looks promising.

 

[YeBeWarned]

but several of our solutions have already passed the tests of the Pakistan Armed Forces, reaching very high marks

can someone Elaborate on this part ?

 

[ziaulislam]

what is really needed is two vehicles

1 a urban based MRAP, we got MAXXPRO but we need another one that should replace our toyota pick ups
hey if you cant find anything just buy or liscene produced the turkish MRAP or dozen of other options
reported price of turkish MRAP is less than 0.3 million if brought directly, a 1000 would cost less than 300 million dollars, if you have no money just ask IMF for another 300 million dollars or ask KPK govt to stop swat motor way and divert money or hold jf-17 production for 4 months or just sell couple of military lands in cities and so on....

today another 3 people died in pick up to a small bomb which probably would have even dented MRAP

2. a Troop carrier to replace the a113

i wonder how much negligence is there in other departments

the down side of not making military responsible and answerable as we see in india

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

That is the downside of sitting down, relacing for years of peacetime.
And panicking in times of duress. And not continuously evolving.

what is really needed is two vehicles

1 a urban based MRAP, we got MAXXPRO but we need another one that should replace our toyota pick ups
hey if you cant find anything just buy or liscene produced the turkish MRAP or dozen of other options
reported price of turkish MRAP is less than 0.3 million if brought directly, a 1000 would cost less than 300 million dollars, if you have no money just ask IMF for another 300 million dollars or ask KPK govt to stop swat motor way and divert money or hold jf-17 production for 4 months or just sell couple of military lands in cities and so on....

today another 3 people died in pick up to a small bomb which probably would have even dented MRAP

2. a Troop carrier to replace the a113

i wonder how much negligence is there in other departments

the down side of not making military responsible and answerable as we see in india

If we refer back to the rifle thread.
Then it is quite evident that POF/Army was interested in a wide rand of weapons including SMGs, rifles, accesories and there was even talk of getting Under barrel grenade launchers.

Seriously, why don't they just make sights themselves. They already make plastics and metal alloys. How hard could it be to manufacture weapon sights?

BTW
The hybrid sights shown in the link you shared are the way to go.

I think this image is a big clue! Clearly they are looking for a complete soldier system.

http://www.pcosa.com.pl/en/delegations/delegation_from_pakistan-864.html

Delegation from Pakistan
28.11.2017
NEWS > DELEGATIONS

On 28th of November 2017 premises of PCO S.A. were visited by representatives of Heavy Industries Taxila (HIT) from Pakistan.


Delegation was led by the Chairman of HIT - Lt Gen Muhammad Naeem Ashraf. Guests watched a multimedia presentation of Polska Grupa Zbrojeniowa and PCO S.A. They were also acknowledged with most modern optoelectronic devices.

HIT groups most important Pakistani defence factories. It produces, modernizes and develops equipment of the Pakistani army.