History of Taiwan

[F-22Raptor]

The US isn't going to have a choice.

China doesn't have the capability to reunify Taiwan by force. Unless, it wants to make the Taiwan Strait a graveyard. It's really that simple.

 

[ZeEa5KPul]

China doesn't have the capability to reunify Taiwan by force. Unless, it wants to make the Taiwan Strait a graveyard. It's really that simple.

I have a policy not to respond to mentally deficient trolls, but since I'm in a magnanimous mood I'll make an exception.

I disagree. I think it can do so today. Even if I'm wrong, it can do so in 5 years. If not 5, then 10. It doesn't matter, I have time. Much more importantly, China has time. And a forceful reunification won't be necessary since Taiwan, exactly like the US, is simply going to fold. It's just a matter of time.

 

[Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA]

China doesn't have the capability to reunify Taiwan by force. Unless, it wants to make the Taiwan Strait a graveyard. It's really that simple.

your beloved general Douglas·MacArthur said in 1950 that the korea war will soon end before christmas of 1950 and a bunch of chinese farmer amy will not change that ,US army can not be ""defeated""!!

Guess what~ ,yankees were wrong!

I think a "forced" reunification now would be a strategic error.

If mainland China wants to control an island territory, it would be better-off developing Hainan Island (which is roughly the same size as Taiwan).

Taiwan's real value to mainland China is as a source of technology.

Mainland China has not yet absorbed all of Taiwan's high-tech.

Taiwan has 162,732 cumulative USPTO patents. China has 46,366.

I think China should wait 20 years and build up its economy, technology, and military. When the Chinese economy and military have been fully modernized, it would be logical to consider reunification. Attempting it today would be premature, because there is no pressing need.

For example, China's prototype H-20 stealth bomber (which is equivalent to the American B-2) won't be ready until 2025. Also, China needs time to build a fleet of H-20 bombers.

That is mainland CHINA is doing:We hope the best and be well prepared for the worst !

China doesn't have the capability to reunify Taiwan by force. Unless, it wants to make the Taiwan Strait a graveyard. It's really that simple.

Why spain does not allow Catalonia to be independant and EU and USA cherish the most the autonomy DO NOT SUPPORT IT?!!

 

[Place Of Space]

An article showing different views regarding how each colonial era is thought as.

Against the background of renewed interest in Taiwan’s history, I surveyed 1054 high school and college students in Tainan from January to March this year and asked them their views on the periods of Dutch rule (1624-1662) and Cheng Cheng-kung (鄭成功, also known as Koxinga) family rule (1662-1683). In order to have a measure of comparison, the students were also asked to give their opinion on the Qing Dynasty rule (1683-1895) and Japanese colonial rule (1895-1945).

STUDENT AWARENESS

Overall, the percentage of those who didn’t know enough about a particular period of history to say whether it had or had not been good for Taiwan varied around 25 percent for the Dutch, Koxinga and Qing Dynasty periods, and dropped to 15.5 percent for the Japanese period.

These numbers (25 percent “don’t know”) still indicate a significant lack of knowledge about the earlier periods. This is probably due to the still minimal amount of time spent on these periods in the current history curriculum. Several students complained about the lack of sufficient time spent on history as compared to Chinese history and classical Chinese texts which have little relevance to present-day Taiwan.

ABORIGINES, TAIWANESE AND OTHERS

One of the key characteristics of the survey is the relatively high percentage of students who consider themselves Aboriginal (177 out of 1054, or 16.8 percent). This enables us to compare the views of Aboriginal and non-Aboriginal students.

For the period of Dutch rule (1624-1662) both the Aboriginal respondents and those who identified themselves as “Ethnic Taiwanese” consider it to have been good for Taiwan, 54.2 percent and 56.4 percent respectively.

For the “Others” category — (those who identified themselves as Hakka, Mainlander and others) — it drops to slightly below 50 percent, but this is probably due to the fact that this group included a number of foreign students who had had no exposure to Taiwan’s history, and responded “I don’t know.” For all three groups, the respondents who had a negative perception of the Dutch period hovered around 22 percent.

For the period of Koxinga family rule (1662-1683) we see a very different picture. Among Aboriginal respondents, his rule is disliked by 43.4 percent while 32.6 percent agreed that his rule was good for Taiwan. Twenty-four percent say they don’t know. However, 67.6 percent of Ethnic Taiwanese had a positive view of him, with 9.6 percent disagreeing. Among the Others category, the positions are somewhere in between: a slight majority (53.0 percent) is positive while 12.5 percent is negative, with a relatively high percentage (34.5 percent) saying they don’t know.

The period of Qing Dynasty rule is worst off. Aboriginal respondents are overwhelmingly (58.5 percent) critical, with 18.8 percent having a positive image of the period. For Ethnic Taiwanese respondents the picture is slightly better, with 42.9 percent positive and 33.9 percent negative. For the Others category of respondents, the pictures is quite similar: 38.3 percent positive and 27.3 percent negative.

The period of Japanese rule (1895-1945) is generally considered most positive by all three groups of respondents, but again the Aboriginal students are most critical with 44.6 percent positive and 39.0 percent negative. The Ethnic Taiwanese group is overwhelmingly positive, with 70.5 percent agreeing it was good for Taiwan, and only 16.8 percent disagreeing. The Others category again come down somewhere in between, with 54.9 percent agreeing it was good for Taiwan, and 23.9 percent disagreeing.

DIFFERENT PERIODS, DIFFERENT TAKES

Why are the different periods of Taiwan’s history valued so differently? In their responses to “Give a reason why,” the students wrote in a large number of opinions.

On the Dutch period, the positive comments included “improving the lives of the Aboriginal people,” “bringing in new agricultural products,” and “introducing water buffaloes to improve agriculture.” Others stated that the Dutch “brought Taiwan into the world trading system,” and also provided schooling and developed a written language for the Siraya Aborigines in an area northeast of present-day Tainan. On the negative side, respondents criticized the Dutch for their colonial exploitation, and for trade practices that led to the extinction of the Formosan sika deer.

The period of Koxinga family rule was seen positively by those who felt that he had brought new immigrants from Fukien province to Taiwan to develop agriculture, laid the foundation of a new Han Chinese society and for introducing a preliminary schooling system at the site of the Confucius Temple in Tainan. Those who viewed the Cheng period negatively emphasized that Koxinga and his family had killed many Aborigines. They also felt he exploited them, destroyed their culture and stole their women and land. A number also criticized Koxinga for using Taiwan as a base to regain control of China.

The period of Qing Dynasty rule was seen negatively by Aboriginal respondents because they oppressed Aboriginal people, taking away their land and forcing them to accept Han culture. Other students stated that the Qing marginalized Taiwan by restricting development and impairing contacts between Taiwan and the outside world. Many respondents also mentioned widespread corruption among Qing government officials, starting with Shih Lang (施琅) — the first official to rule Taiwan on behalf of the Qing. The only positive comments about Qing Dynasty rule related to the efforts of governor Liu Ming-chuan (劉銘傳) in the late 1880s, who started to develop railways and a telegraph system.

The period of Japanese rule was overwhelmingly considered positive because they initiated a major expansion of modern infrastructure, such as roads, railroads and other public works. The Japanese were also credited for starting a public health system, an education system up to university level, irrigation systems and tap water. A number of people also mentioned that the Japanese introduced the Western system of keeping time, and “taught Taiwan to be law-abiding and punctual with time.”

The detractors of the Japanese period mentioned racial discrimination against both Taiwanese and Aborigines, and a number also mentioned the killings that took place during the “pacification campaigns” in the early years of the era.

SIGNIFICANCE FOR TODAY

These early events in Taiwan’s history laid the foundation of present-day Taiwan: a multi-cultural society with many different historic roots.

The fact that the social origins are clearly rooted in the Aboriginal population is finding increasing recognition, as seen in President Tsai Ing-wen’s (蔡英文) inauguration ceremony and apology to Aborigines last year.

But this new multi-cultural Taiwanese identity also cherishes the Hoklo-speaking part of the population (70 percent), the Hakka-speaking population (15 percent) and the descendents of the Chinese mainlanders, who came over to Taiwan with Chiang Kai-shek (蔣介石) after 1945.

One point of broad agreement among all these groups is that they would like to see an end to the political and diplomatic isolation into which Taiwan has been pushed by its recent history, and broadly support Taiwan playing a more prominent role internationally.

The fact that at several points in its long history Taiwan was already connected to the world, both to the Pacific Islanders through cultural links as long as 3,500 years ago as well as to Japan and Southeast Asia through the Dutch trading system in the 17th century is supportive of the broader narrative that Taiwan has long been an “Ocean nation” that survived and thrived.

Thus, as Taiwan prepares to play a fuller and more integral role in the international community and be a part of globalization in the 21st century, it can look back at — and make use of — a long history with strong connections to the outside world.
http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/feat/archives/2017/09/27/2003679216/1

Of course many aspects of Chinese culture and buildings remain in Taiwan such as the beautiful Qingshui Zushi Temple, but why does that have to be used as justification for bringing Taiwan under Mainland China's jurisdiction? Let it remain as strong soft power but let the people remain as they want. In all honesty, it is the threats that the PRC makes about forceful reunification is what is causing a reaction from many of them to look at the era under colonial Japan as better and better. Take a chill pill, just accept Taiwan as a new country, and be down with it. It shouldn't be so hard. Chinese elements will of course remain and shared cultural elements can be used as positive soft power and positive friendship while respecting desires of sovereignty. They no longer seem interested in claiming all of mainland China as their territory as they once did while Chiang Kai-shek was in control.

Regarding the US, of course the US doesn't care so much about culture and sentiment, be it for China or for Japan, but what the US does care very much about is the geographical strategic value that Taiwan is in. Taiwan is the center piece of what is called the "first island chain" which runs from Japan's Kyushu, to Okinawa, then to Taiwan, then further south to the Philippines. So geographically speaking, Taiwan is right in the middle of the chain. Behind the chain is Guam and the under bellow of Japan, and of course Okinawa's backside. So the US isn't going to let Taiwan easily go and the government of Taiwan has always been wanting US security assurance and defense sales, almost to the point that the US sometimes has tried to give Taiwan a cold shoulder once in a while for the sake of not causing China to threaten instability for the sake of its policy of Taiwan being a "renegade province".

My Jap-dude, Taiwan is just a small island, it's headache to make population on it so complicated. Very simple, you know, they speak in same language, they write same characters, they moved from Fujian provinces in different period.
By they way, so called Dutch / Spanish rule is a fake conception. They didn't have culture influence, it's a short period and the area was in a corner. If you can go back to 17th century, European culture or rule had 0 attraction to Chinese. On the contray, all the European elite missionary in China accept Chinese living mode, even they died, they were buried in Chinese tombs. During dynasty war between Ming and Qing, Dutch or Spanish stole some land on Taiwan and built some temporary military forts in the southern corner. Soon later Zheng ChenGong drive them out. After they forced out, they left nothing in Taiwan and were forgotten soon. Even Chinese had no interests in where these guys came from.

 

[Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA]

My Jap-dude, Taiwan is just a small island, it's headache to make population on it so complicated. Very simple, you know, they speak in same language, they write same characters, they moved from Fujian provinces in different period.
By they way, so called Dutch / Spanish rule is a fake conception. They didn't have culture influence, it's a short period and the area was in a corner. If you can go back to 17th century, European culture or rule had 0 attraction to Chinese. On the contray, all the European elite missionary in China accept Chinese living mode, even they died, they were buried in Chinese tombs. During dynasty war between Ming and Qing, Dutch or Spanish stole some land on Taiwan and built some temporary military forts in the southern corner. Soon later Zheng ChenGong drive them out. After they forced out, they left nothing in Taiwan and were forgotten soon. Even Chinese had no interests in where these guys came from.

Thanks dude,me myself,i was wondering whenever Dutch and spainish occupied Taiwan,and at the same time??!!
Your post explains a lot! Wikipedia is westernspedia,it turned out to be true!
Thanks!

 

[Suika]

My Jap-dude, Taiwan is just a small island, it's headache to make population on it so complicated. Very simple, you know, they speak in same language, they write same characters, they moved from Fujian provinces in different period.
By they way, so called Dutch / Spanish rule is a fake conception. They didn't have culture influence, it's a short period and the area was in a corner. If you can go back to 17th century, European culture or rule had 0 attraction to Chinese. On the contray, all the European elite missionary in China accept Chinese living mode, even they died, they were buried in Chinese tombs. During dynasty war between Ming and Qing, Dutch or Spanish stole some land on Taiwan and built some temporary military forts in the southern corner. Soon later Zheng ChenGong drive them out. After they forced out, they left nothing in Taiwan and were forgotten soon. Even Chinese had no interests in where these guys came from.

Before the extension of Ming or Qing control on the island, it was just some Chinese people crossing the strait on an island of local natives. A few settled in the some villages. They were not representatives of government. Japanese wako pirates and traders did the same and have gone to places as far as the Philippines and Thailand or closer nearby such as Pusan on the Korean Peninsula. The establishment of some small villages or outposts of sorts don't constitute a national boundary.

This non-stop insistence about territorial claim on the basis of weak arguments is astonishing.

 

[Place Of Space]

Before the extension of Ming or Qing control on the island, it was just some Chinese people crossing the strait on an island of local natives. A few settled in the some villages. They were not representatives of government. Japanese wako pirates and traders did the same and have gone to places as far as the Philippines and Thailand or closer nearby such as Pusan on the Korean Peninsula. The establishment of some small villages or outposts of sorts don't constitute a national boundary.

This non-stop insistence about territorial claim on the basis of weak arguments is astonishing.

Japanese wako pirates and traders didn't do the same. They were just travellers or passerbys.

 

[Suika]

Japanese wako pirates and traders didn't do the same. They were just travellers or passerbys.

No, they had actual communities in Thailand, Pusan, and the Philippines. Consider a military adviser to the Thai kingdom named Yamada Nagamasa in the Thai city of Ayutthaya.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamada_Nagamasa

 

[Place Of Space]

No, they had actual communities in Thailand, Pusan, and the Philippines. Consider a military adviser to the Thai kingdom named Yamada Nagamasa in the Thai city of Ayutthaya.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamada_Nagamasa

It says Thai kingdom allow the Japanese passerbys stay there, give some talent jobs.
Very obviously these guys would like to join into the local society, and to been assimilated.

 

[Viva_Viet]

China doesn't have the capability to reunify Taiwan by force. Unless, it wants to make the Taiwan Strait a graveyard. It's really that simple.

True, PLA soldiers are inexperience and no guts to fight in real battle, not to mention that its generals are so corrupted.

 

[Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA]

Japanese wako pirates and traders didn't do the same. They were just travellers or passerbys.

I. During the Three Kingdoms period（三国时代）, in 230 AD,SUN Quan（孙权）,King of WU（吴王）, has dispatched his generals Wei Wen（卫温）, ZHUGE Zhi（诸葛直） to Yi Zhou (夷洲 now Taiwan 台湾) by leading a fleet of more than 10,000 sergeants and more than 30 vessels, which is the beginning of the development of civilizations in Taiwan using the advanced cultural knowledge of the Han Empire brought by residents of mainland China.

True, PLA soldiers are inexperience and no guts to fight in real battle, not to mention that its generals are so corrupted.

Then why we have xisha and nansha islands?
If PLA is so weak ,come and take them ok?

Before the extension of Ming or Qing control on the island, it was just some Chinese people crossing the strait on an island of local natives. A few settled in the some villages. They were not representatives of government. Japanese wako pirates and traders did the same and have gone to places as far as the Philippines and Thailand or closer nearby such as Pusan on the Korean Peninsula. The establishment of some small villages or outposts of sorts don't constitute a national boundary.

This non-stop insistence about territorial claim on the basis of weak arguments is astonishing.

I. During the Three Kingdoms period（三国时代）, in 230 AD,SUN Quan（孙权）,King of WU（吴王）, has dispatched his generals Wei Wen（卫温）, ZHUGE Zhi（诸葛直） to Yi Zhou (夷洲 now Taiwan 台湾) by leading a fleet of more than 10,000 sergeants and more than 30 vessels, which is the beginning of the development of civilizations in Taiwan using the advanced cultural knowledge of the Han Empire brought by residents of mainland China.



II. The prefecture chief SHEN Ying of Danyang of WU Kingdom,in his “Apostil of Linhai province” has recorded in detail the production and living patterns of Taiwanese at that time and was the earliest written works on Taiwan in the world.（吴国丹阳太守沈莹的《临海水土志》详细记载了当时台湾人的生产和生活形态，是世界上有关台湾最早的书面著作。）

III. During the Sui Dynasty, the contacts between Mainland China and Taiwan were gradually increased. Emperor Sui Yang had sent three times his generals Zhu Kuan, Chen Leng to Liuqiu (now Taiwan). Han people settled in Penghu islands from the late Tang and early Song dynasties in the 9th to 10th centuries. (隋代，中国大陆和台湾的接触逐渐增多。隋炀帝曾3次派朱宽、陈棱等人前往流求（今台湾）。 9至10世纪的唐末宋初开始有汉族人定居澎湖。)

 

[Suika]

It says Thai kingdom allow the Japanese passerbys stay there, give some talent jobs.
Very obviously these guys would like to join into the local society, and to been assimilated.

So you went from people that pass by are no good to people that decided to settle are no good. Your really pulling threads for distinguishing that somehow justify early Chinese activity as proof of ownership while excluding other cases. That is some extreme micromanaging of history to suit your preference.

 

[Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA]

IV.During the Song and Yuan Dynasties, the Han people had a considerable amount in Penghu islands. The Han Chinese started their development in Penghu and developed into Taiwan main island and brought advanced production technology. In the mid-12th century, the Southern Song Dynasty placed Penghu under the jurisdiction of Jinjiang County of Fujian Province (now Jinjiang, Fujian Province) and dispatched soldiers to guard. The relations between mainland China and Taiwan have become more frequent.（宋元时期汉族人民在澎湖已有相当数量。汉人开拓澎湖后开始向台湾发展，带去先进的生产技术。12世纪中叶南宋将澎湖划归福建路晋江县（今福建晋江）管辖，并派兵戌守。大陆和台湾的联系日渐频繁。）

 

[Suika]

I. During the Three Kingdoms period（三国时代）, in 230 AD,SUN Quan（孙权）,King of WU（吴王）, has dispatched his generals Wei Wen（卫温）, ZHUGE Zhi（诸葛直） to Yi Zhou (夷洲 now Taiwan 台湾) by leading a fleet of more than 10,000 sergeants and more than 30 vessels, which is the beginning of the development of civilizations in Taiwan using the advanced cultural knowledge of the Han Empire brought by residents of mainland China.


Then why we have xisha and nansha islands?
If PLA is so weak ,come and take them ok?


I. During the Three Kingdoms period（三国时代）, in 230 AD,SUN Quan（孙权）,King of WU（吴王）, has dispatched his generals Wei Wen（卫温）, ZHUGE Zhi（诸葛直） to Yi Zhou (夷洲 now Taiwan 台湾) by leading a fleet of more than 10,000 sergeants and more than 30 vessels, which is the beginning of the development of civilizations in Taiwan using the advanced cultural knowledge of the Han Empire brought by residents of mainland China.



II. The prefecture chief SHEN Ying of Danyang of WU Kingdom,in his “Apostil of Linhai province” has recorded in detail the production and living patterns of Taiwanese at that time and was the earliest written works on Taiwan in the world.（吴国丹阳太守沈莹的《临海水土志》详细记载了当时台湾人的生产和生活形态，是世界上有关台湾最早的书面著作。）

III. During the Sui Dynasty, the contacts between Mainland China and Taiwan were gradually increased. Emperor Sui Yang had sent three times his generals Zhu Kuan, Chen Leng to Liuqiu (now Taiwan). Han people settled in Penghu islands from the late Tang and early Song dynasties in the 9th to 10th centuries. (隋代，中国大陆和台湾的接触逐渐增多。隋炀帝曾3次派朱宽、陈棱等人前往流求（今台湾）。 9至10世纪的唐末宋初开始有汉族人定居澎湖。)

So now just mere contacts equals justification of ownership? Penghu islands aren't Taiwan. I think I've seen enough of this creating process of fake narration.

IV.During the Song and Yuan Dynasties, the Han people had a considerable amount in Penghu islands. The Han Chinese started their development in Penghu and developed into Taiwan main island and brought advanced production technology. In the mid-12th century, the Southern Song Dynasty placed Penghu under the jurisdiction of Jinjiang County of Fujian Province (now Jinjiang, Fujian Province) and dispatched soldiers to guard. The relations between mainland China and Taiwan have become more frequent.（宋元时期汉族人民在澎湖已有相当数量。汉人开拓澎湖后开始向台湾发展，带去先进的生产技术。12世纪中叶南宋将澎湖划归福建路晋江县（今福建晋江）管辖，并派兵戌守。大陆和台湾的联系日渐频繁。）

It's all interesting history, I'll give you that much. Just leave out the makings of fake narration.

 

[Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA]

V. After the establishment of the Yuan Dynasty, the Central Government further strengthened the management of Taiwan. Yuan Shizu Emperor (Kublai khan,元世祖) sent officers to Taiwan and set up the Penghu Patrol Department in Penghu, under the jurisdiction of Tong'an County, City of Quanzhou,Fujian Province (now Fujian's Xiamen). .元朝建立后，中央政府进一步加强对台湾的管理。元世祖曾派员到台湾宣抚，并在澎湖设澎湖巡检司，隶属福建泉州路同安县（今福建厦门）。

VI. In the early Ming Dynasty, the Central Government still set up the Penghu Inspection Department. It was abolished in 1387 because of the ban imposed by the Central Government. In 1563, the Central Government re-established the Penghu Inspection Department due to considerations of law and order in the coastal areas.(明朝初期,中央政府仍然设立了澎湖巡检司，直至1387年，因中央政府实施海禁而废除，1563年，由于考量沿海治安等因素，中央政府重新设立了澎湖巡检司。)

So now just mere contacts equals justification of ownership? Penghu islands aren't Taiwan. I think I've seen enough of this creating process of fake narration.



It's all interesting history, I'll give you that much. Just leave out the makings of fake narration.

For you even Terra-Cotta Warriors of QIN empire( 221 BC) is fake as well