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History of Afghan betrayal , fraud and oppression on Pashtuns

The solution that i think will solve lots of problem for Pakistan is to give citizenship to those Afghans;

who are born in Pakistan, with no criminal background, educated in Pakistan and are culturally assimilated. With pre-condition of voluntary giving up afghan nationality.

Regulation of such individuals, who are in millions, will give them a prospect of a good future and will eliminate the risk of such individuals to be used as cannon fodders by the ones who are using them for their own propaganda purposes against Pakistan.

Rightly said... If they are going to spit venom at Pakistan, then they should be asked to leave. If ever my nation is developed and they spit venom, there's the door.

But I would encourage not to have them join the military, as happened with the Abbasid Caliphate, when they gave military positions to foreigners who had just converted to Islam and barely lived in that land then they turned against them. Wait until they have been living in that land for at least 3 generations then proceed...
 
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The solution that i think will solve lots of problem for Pakistan is to give citizenship to those Afghans;

who are born in Pakistan, with no criminal background, educated in Pakistan and are culturally assimilated. With pre-condition of voluntary giving up afghan nationality.

Regulation of such individuals, who are in millions, will give them a prospect of a good future and will eliminate the risk of such individuals to be used as cannon fodders by the ones who are using them for their own propaganda purposes against Pakistan.
But Pakistan has even failed to do this to many of its own citizens?
 
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But Pakistan has even failed to do this to many of its own citizens?

Pakistan has failed to do many right things; hence the state of confusion and problems. We haven't managed our borders properly. No visa and immigration policy. Corruption and lack of proper mechanism lead people to get fake ID cards, which lead to problems. No where in the world a country is regulated the way Pakistan has been doing, we have our share of issues and they are a lot. But you gotta start somewhere, and with proper clear vision.

And when you couple all the above mentioned problems with almost non existence foreign policy you get the disaster Pakistan is facing today.

Rightly said... If they are going to spit venom at Pakistan, then they should be asked to leave.

It's a multipronged problem, if Pakistan starts to take strict action against such elements, it will not be taken as afghans who are anti pakistan being thrown out but rather will be played as anti pushtun thing since the line is blurred by the likes of PTM and anti-Pakistan forces. Hence i mentioned that Pakistan has done lots of things wrong; and she is finding herself in this very bad position due to the same reason. First you gotta give stakes to the people in the country's stability and then they become your hands to strengthen it. Pakistan has an opportunity to assimilate the migrants in to the society and once they have stakes in the country they will root for it instead of falling in to the traps laid out by likes of PTM.
 
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It's a multipronged problem, if Pakistan starts to take strict action against such elements, it will not be taken as afghans who are anti pakistan being thrown out but rather will be played as anti pushtun thing since the line is blurred by the likes of PTM and anti-Pakistan forces. Hence i mentioned that Pakistan has done lots of things wrong; and she is finding herself in this very bad position due to the same reason. First you gotta give stakes to the people in the country's stability and then they become your hands to strengthen it. Pakistan has an opportunity to assimilate the migrants in to the society and once they have stakes in the country they will root for it instead of falling in to the traps laid out by likes of PTM.

In regards to PTM, here's advice from the God-Father of politics Machiavelli...

When an Inconvenience Has Grown Either in a State or against a State, the More Salutary Policy Is to Temporize with It Rather Than to Strike at It

"As the Roman republic was growing in reputation, strength, and empire, its neighbors, who at first had not thought of how much harm that new republic could bring them, began--but late-- to recognize their error; and wishing to remedy what they had not remedied at first, a good forty peoples conspried against Rome. Hence, among the other usual remedies they made for themselves in urgent dangers, the Roman turned to creating the dictator--- that is, to giving power to one man who could decide without any consultation and execute his decision without any appeal. As that remedy was useful then and was the cause that they overcame the impending dangers, so it was always most useful in all those accidents that arose at any time against the republic in the increasing of the empire.

First to be discussed in regard to that accident is that when an inconvenience that arises either in a republic or against a republic, caused by an intrinsic or extrinsic cause, has become so great that it begins to bring fear to everyone, it is a much more secure police to temporize with it than to attempt to extinguish it. For almost always those who attempt to allay it make its strength greater and accelerate the evil that they suspected from it for themselves. And accidents such as these arise in a republic more often through an intrinsic than an extrinsic cause. Many times a citizen is allowed to gather more strength than is reasonable, or one begins to corrupt a law that is the nerve and the life of a free way of life; and the error is allowed to run so far that it is a more harmful policy to remedy it than to allow it to continue. It is so much the more difficult to recognize these inconveniences when they arise as it appears more natural to men always to favor the beginnings of things; and more than for anything else, such favor can be for works that appear to have some virtue in them and have been done by youths. For if in a republic one sees a noble youth arise who has an extraordinary virtue in him, all eyes of the citizens begin to turn towards him and agree in honoring him without any hesitation (this is Manzoor Pashteen), so that if there is a bit of ambition in him, mixed with the favor that nature gives him and with this accident, he comes at once to a place where the citizens, when they become aware of their error, have few remedies to avoid it. If they try to work as many as they have, they do nothing by accelerate his power.

One could bring up a very many examples of this, but I wish to give only one of them from our city (Florence in late 1400s). Cosimo de' Medici, from whom the house of Medici had the beginning of its greatness in our city, came to such reputation with the favor that his prudence and the ignorance of the other citizens gave him that he began to bring fear to the state, so that the other citizens judged it dangerous to offend him and very dangerous to allow him to remain thus. But living in those times was Niccolo da Uzzano, a man held to be very expert in civil affairs, who had made the first error of not recognizing the dangers that could arise from the reputation of Cosimo. While he lived, he did not ever permit the second to be made--- that is, of attempting to eliminate him--- since he judged that such an attempted would be the entire ruin of their state, as one see it was after his death. For as the citizens who were left did not observe his counsel, they made themselves strong against Cosimo and expelled him from Florence. Hence it came about that his party, resentful because of this injury, recalled him soon after and made him prince of the Republic, to which rank he would never have been able to clim without that manifest opposition.

The same happened in Rome with Caesar; for although that virtue of his was favored by Pompey and by others, the favor soon after was converted to fear. Cicero bears witness to this in saying that Pompey had begun to fear Caesar late. That fear made them think about remedies; and the remedies they made accelerated the ruin of their republic.

I say, thus, that since it is difficult to recognize these evils when they arise--- the difficulty being caused by the fact that things are apt to deceive you in the beginning--- it is a wiser policy to temporize with them after they are recognized than to oppose them; for if one temporizes with them, either they are eliminated by themselves or at least the evil is deferred for a longer time. In all things, princes who plan to cancel them or oppose their strength and thrust should open their eyes, so as not to give them increase instead of decrease, believing that they are pushing a thing back while pulling it along, or indeed that they are drowning a plant by watering it. But they should consider will the strength of the malady, and if you see you have enough to cure it, set yourself at it without hesitation: otherwise let it be and do not attempt it in any mode. For, as was discoursed of above, it will happen as it happened to Rome's neighbors, for whom, since Rome had grown to so much power, it was more salutary to seek to appease it and to hold it back with the modes of peace than to make them think about new orders and new defenses with the modes of war. For that conspiracy of theirs did nothing but make the [the Romans] more united, more vigorous, and make them think about new modes, through which they expanded their power in a briefer time. Among them was the creation of the dictator, a new order through which not only overcame impending dangers but that was the cause of avoiding infinite evils that the republic would have incurred without that remedy." Discourses on Livy (translated by Harvey C. Mansfield & Nathan Tarcov) Chapter 33 page 71, Book I, title


Once the war in Afghanistan comes to an end, at that time extend CPEC into Afghanistan, many will become enriched, and also have the TAPI pipeline built, the aristocrats of Afghanistan and PTM once their interests are tied to Pakistan will have no reason to cause a ruckus, and will wish for many more projects. However, I believe the people at the top understand this, both in Afghanistan and Pakistan. The underlying issue I believe is countering propaganda... This Anti-Afghan and Anti-Pakistan sentiments haven taken root, but not completely, if this is not undone, then it could hinder everything, and that will be disastrous for Islam, our ultimate goal.
 
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Once the war in Afghanistan comes to an end, at that time extend CPEC into Afghanistan, many will become enriched, and also have the TAPI pipeline built,

I am afraid that it won't go that route. But that's for another thread. The stakes are very high for lots in Afghanistan and as i mentioned the people of Afghanistan are in the middle of the storm. In the long run a federation with Pakistan is the only and i repeat only viable option i see for Afghanistan for her stability. But that's a long discussion since there are lots of variables.....
 
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Pakistan has failed to do many right things; hence the state of confusion and problems. We haven't managed our borders properly. No visa and immigration policy. Corruption and lack of proper mechanism lead people to get fake ID cards, which lead to problems. No where in the world a country is regulated the way Pakistan has been doing, we have our share of issues and they are a lot. But you gotta start somewhere, and with proper clear vision.

And when you couple all the above mentioned problems with almost non existence foreign policy you get the disaster Pakistan is facing today.



It's a multipronged problem, if Pakistan starts to take strict action against such elements, it will not be taken as afghans who are anti pakistan being thrown out but rather will be played as anti pushtun thing since the line is blurred by the likes of PTM and anti-Pakistan forces. Hence i mentioned that Pakistan has done lots of things wrong; and she is finding herself in this very bad position due to the same reason. First you gotta give stakes to the people in the country's stability and they become your hands to strengthen it. Pakistan has an opportunity to assimilate the migrants in to the society and once they have stakes in the country they will root for it instead of falling in to the traps laid out by likes of PTM.

This is 100% the correct strategy. As brother Dawary detailed previously, Afghans are assimilated into Pakistani society. They are merchants, textile suppliers, work in transport, as maids/helpers, restuarants, students, ulema, and various other businesses. If Afghans leave tomorrow, our economy will break down due to the lack of middle men and trade/products to/from Afghanistan.

They are part of this country now, we should open it up for them officially and start collecting tax.

@H. Dawary You can see why Pakistan split away from British India during partition. You see the difference of mindset between us. We embrace our Islamic heritage and Islamic identity fully, without looking towards Communism or Omnism.

As far as those Pakistanis still harping on anti-Pukhtoon hate, they are outliers, as you and others may have already noticed. They have been rejected by Pakistanis.

As for Pakistanis who hate Afghans, I cannot blame all of them, due to the negative exposure from social media and PTM, that is all they have been exposed to.

They don't have positive experiences with Afghans as I have had, and they don't remember the initial wave of refugees who came battle-scarred and traumatized from the USSR massacres and sexual violence. I still remember them, I sat with them and listened to their stories. I watched them cry and consoled them. Every Pakistani felt their pain.

Same too for the initial American invasion in 2001, people were buried in their homes. Children were left to wander alone, families were separated forever, everyone ran for their lives to get to Pakistan. Anyone who doesn't feel sympathy for Afghan refugees needs to inculcate some morality into their lives.

We are a Pakistani qawm, we help all those in need at any time. We never kick people when they are down.

Because of this Afghans' have positive opinions of Pakistan. We should use those ties and expand our relations, it will help drive our economy, make us free of oil dependence to the Gulf, and it will cripple Indian and Iranian proxies.

If Pakistan wants to be a tiny power, constantly at mercy of its neighbors, then lose this opportunity.

Yet if Pakistan dreams of being a superpower, Afghanistan is the first step, of many subsequent steps. Our destiny lies in Eurasia, not South Asia.
 
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Actually the opposite to what you have stated, empires built by pashtuns in kabul has sustained their empires through pillaging and taking salves in near by areas.
They pillaged areas of modern day Pakistan, india, central asia and small regions of iran as well.
Historically they were the worst offenders of slavery, demanding many of their vassal states to send slaves yearly from their population.
Sorry but you have been misguided by some one, Ghuri and Ghaznavis were never afghan they were turks.
 
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In regards to PTM, here's advice from the God-Father of politics Machiavelli...

When an Inconvenience Has Grown Either in a State or against a State, the More Salutary Policy Is to Temporize with It Rather Than to Strike at It

"As the Roman republic was growing in reputation, strength, and empire, its neighbors, who at first had not thought of how much harm that new republic could bring them, began--but late-- to recognize their error; and wishing to remedy what they had not remedied at first, a good forty peoples conspried against Rome. Hence, among the other usual remedies they made for themselves in urgent dangers, the Roman turned to creating the dictator--- that is, to giving power to one man who could decide without any consultation and execute his decision without any appeal. As that remedy was useful then and was the cause that they overcame the impending dangers, so it was always most useful in all those accidents that arose at any time against the republic in the increasing of the empire.

First to be discussed in regard to that accident is that when an inconvenience that arises either in a republic or against a republic, caused by an intrinsic or extrinsic cause, has become so great that it begins to bring fear to everyone, it is a much more secure police to temporize with it than to attempt to extinguish it. For almost always those who attempt to allay it make its strength greater and accelerate the evil that they suspected from it for themselves. And accidents such as these arise in a republic more often through an intrinsic than an extrinsic cause. Many times a citizen is allowed to gather more strength than is reasonable, or one begins to corrupt a law that is the nerve and the life of a free way of life; and the error is allowed to run so far that it is a more harmful policy to remedy it than to allow it to continue. It is so much the more difficult to recognize these inconveniences when they arise as it appears more natural to men always to favor the beginnings of things; and more than for anything else, such favor can be for works that appear to have some virtue in them and have been done by youths. For if in a republic one sees a noble youth arise who has an extraordinary virtue in him, all eyes of the citizens begin to turn towards him and agree in honoring him without any hesitation (this is Manzoor Pashteen), so that if there is a bit of ambition in him, mixed with the favor that nature gives him and with this accident, he comes at once to a place where the citizens, when they become aware of their error, have few remedies to avoid it. If they try to work as many as they have, they do nothing by accelerate his power.

One could bring up a very many examples of this, but I wish to give only one of them from our city (Florence in late 1400s). Cosimo de' Medici, from whom the house of Medici had the beginning of its greatness in our city, came to such reputation with the favor that his prudence and the ignorance of the other citizens gave him that he began to bring fear to the state, so that the other citizens judged it dangerous to offend him and very dangerous to allow him to remain thus. But living in those times was Niccolo da Uzzano, a man held to be very expert in civil affairs, who had made the first error of not recognizing the dangers that could arise from the reputation of Cosimo. While he lived, he did not ever permit the second to be made--- that is, of attempting to eliminate him--- since he judged that such an attempted would be the entire ruin of their state, as one see it was after his death. For as the citizens who were left did not observe his counsel, they made themselves strong against Cosimo and expelled him from Florence. Hence it came about that his party, resentful because of this injury, recalled him soon after and made him prince of the Republic, to which rank he would never have been able to clim without that manifest opposition.

The same happened in Rome with Caesar; for although that virtue of his was favored by Pompey and by others, the favor soon after was converted to fear. Cicero bears witness to this in saying that Pompey had begun to fear Caesar late. That fear made them think about remedies; and the remedies they made accelerated the ruin of their republic.

I say, thus, that since it is difficult to recognize these evils when they arise--- the difficulty being caused by the fact that things are apt to deceive you in the beginning--- it is a wiser policy to temporize with them after they are recognized than to oppose them; for if one temporizes with them, either they are eliminated by themselves or at least the evil is deferred for a longer time. In all things, princes who plan to cancel them or oppose their strength and thrust should open their eyes, so as not to give them increase instead of decrease, believing that they are pushing a thing back while pulling it along, or indeed that they are drowning a plant by watering it. But they should consider will the strength of the malady, and if you see you have enough to cure it, set yourself at it without hesitation: otherwise let it be and do not attempt it in any mode. For, as was discoursed of above, it will happen as it happened to Rome's neighbors, for whom, since Rome had grown to so much power, it was more salutary to seek to appease it and to hold it back with the modes of peace than to make them think about new orders and new defenses with the modes of war. For that conspiracy of theirs did nothing but make the [the Romans] more united, more vigorous, and make them think about new modes, through which they expanded their power in a briefer time. Among them was the creation of the dictator, a new order through which not only overcame impending dangers but that was the cause of avoiding infinite evils that the republic would have incurred without that remedy." Discourses on Livy (translated by Harvey C. Mansfield & Nathan Tarcov) Chapter 33 page 71, Book I, title


Once the war in Afghanistan comes to an end, at that time extend CPEC into Afghanistan, many will become enriched, and also have the TAPI pipeline built, the aristocrats of Afghanistan and PTM once their interests are tied to Pakistan will have no reason to cause a ruckus, and will wish for many more projects. However, I believe the people at the top understand this, both in Afghanistan and Pakistan. The underlying issue I believe is countering propaganda... This Anti-Afghan and Anti-Pakistan sentiments haven taken root, but not completely, if this is not undone, then it could hinder everything, and that will be disastrous for Islam, our ultimate goal.

Great analysis brother.

PTM is small fry, and their ship has already sailed, that is why they get so desperate for attention. Pakistan government gave them seats in government and asked them every time to provide solutions to problems, but they showed no interest. PTI victory in KPK had a large part to play in defending of ANP/PTM.

The new problem for Pakistan today are atheist Marxism professors, student organizations, and media in large cities among upper classes. Their power is limited though.

Another and more urgent pressing matter for us is PPP in Sindh, removal of Zardari is a must. However it will require tact because of the Sindhi Shia, Peer, Communist, and separatist movements supporting PPPP. They are also keeping Karachi back from its potential and keeping Karachiites as hostages.

I am afraid that it won't go that route. But that's for another thread. The stakes are very high for lots in Afghanistan and as i mentioned the people of Afghanistan are in the middle of the storm. In the long run a federation with Pakistan is the only and i repeat only viable option i see for Afghanistan for her stability. But that's a long discussion since there are lots of variables.....

Yes, and also for the liberation of Kashmir and security of Pakistan, it is imperative.
 
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And that talk of the Taliban destroying poppy crops is false. It is known that the Taliban have forced some farmers to grow poppy and they ( the Taliban ) did trade of this with the Americans.
Shows your knowledge on Afghan issue.

When they were in power, they eradicated poppy. Acknowledged by UN.

After the US invaded, thats another story. To fund fight against the big satan which you avidly support.
Have you heard a bit about Namira Salim ?
What has she got to do with Afghanistan?

It would have been better for all of us had your Soviet idols not interfered in the internal matters of Afghanistan by murdering Afghan presidents, installing puppet governments, invading, committing atrocities and plundering Afghanistan's natural resources.
What were the Taliban's actual achievements except to forcibly down music shops and barber shops ?
You keep on exhibiting your ignorance about the issue.

Afghanistan was a war ravaged land where warlords(including those backed by India and Russia) were raping, killing, extorting and plundering with impunity. The Taliban restored peace and law and order with minimum bloodshed within a couple years. That itself is a very big achievement. But that won't be acknowledged by your kind since achievement to you means the length of a woman's skirt; the shorter it is, more the nation has progressed.

Poppy eradication was acknowledged even by the UN.

Music shops were not Afghanistan's bigger issue, the bigger issue was marauding warlords whom you knowingly or unknowingly defend. These warlords who were the scourge of Afghanistan were pacified by the Taliban.
The same has happened in Syria. Some stayed and fought alongside their government and some left.
Sawal gandum jawab chana.

Avoid digressing.
 
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I personally have love for Pakistan bro, it is the only nation that actually stands up for Muslims, and it was the only nation that helped us Afghans in our time of greatest needs. While Afghans fled to various nations as refugees during the Soviet onslaught and were thrown in camps, Pakistanis gave us a home and even allowed Afghans to study in universities. Today, I have family in Pakistan and my cousins Al-Hamdulillah have received their education and are doing very good in life, they now consider Pakistan their home and would prefer to be there then anywhere in the world, can you imagine how much it must hurt them to see Afghans and Afghanistan abused?

There are some things I agree with some members here, and their frustrations are just, namely the Durand line. I believe it should be accepted and talks should be held, as this border dispute is what has caused the fracture between both AFG and PAK. However, some members here have straight up hate, their hate is unsightly, I understand they have their criticisms, however when you read their messages it goes something like "Afghanistan should be nuked"... "The Afghan is a special type of animal".... "What do you expect of savages"... I am astonished Mods don't take action against such people, and I have reported them in the past but still they spit venom, now tell me, should such people along with making up history not be given a proper reply? What is their problem? Afghans in Afghanistan barely have food to eat, they can barely feed their children and these people unashamedly want such people killed, abuse them, and call them animals, can you believe the injustice? They spent 40 years suffering, and some members here want them to suffer more. This is not the attitude of Muslims, but of Jahils...

As a Pakistani Pashtoon I understand your feelings bro. I have seen daily beautiful kids with dark blue eyes just eating from trash can. The hatred among us is from both sides mostly just because of racism as I have lived among afghans, Pakistani pashtoon, sindhi, balochi etc and we are racists against each other and when a person starts hatred he becomes blind.
Ze dero afghan malgaro ki nast yam o aksar aghai pa azada de Pakistan nuksan ghawari... afghan tar usa pori da khabara mazgho ki acholi da che tar attocka pori afghanistan day o da de Afghanistan map dai ta khuday khuli da. de khuday de para pa zan o mung mandi lag reham woki o da khabara pridai... aksar KPK pukhtane de aghanistans sara ne kidal ghwari. Pakistan hukomat ta hum pakar de che afghans ta nationality warki...
 
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However, be glad, Taliban government is coming back. Good days for Pakistan ahead.

I am actually not in favour of Taliban ruling Afghanistan, even though they are Pukhtoons. I would prefer to see educated and progressive Pukhtoons at the realm.

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Then there are two Indians and one Karachiite running around with the same agenda to make friction between Pukhtoons and other Pakistanis.

I wish we had more Pukhtoon brothers on this forum to counter this nonsense.

@Psychic @DESERT FIGHTER

I know the Karachite that you are mentioning as it was me he was arguing. As for countering this nonsense, i have already given up on that as i realized a khara will always be a khara doesn't matter how many books you load on it.

Hi, can you tell me when the Mongol appellation - Khan - was adopted by the Pathans ?

Please stop calling us Pathans, we hate that word..........We are Pukhtoons or Pashtuns.
 
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I am actually not in favour of Taliban ruling Afghanistan, even though they are Pukhtoons. I would prefer to see educated and progressive Pukhtoons at the realm.

Give them some time to come and bring peace to the country, you will see science and technology taught in modern universities, opening of schools for both genders, and flourishing all kinds of learning.

US ruled Afghanistan for 20 years, what did they bring but war and destruction? Kabul regime are the same warlord and lifafa politicians which can only live by corruption and foreign money.

Pakistan can help alot in development of Afghanistan and its modernization.

Please stop calling us Pathans, we hate that word..........We are Pukhtoons or Pashtuns.

Pathan/Bathan means front part of a ship. It is not the name of any ethnicity.
 
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Give them some time to come and bring peace to the country, you will see science and technology taught in modern universities, opening of schools for both genders, and flourishing all kinds of learning.

US ruled Afghanistan for 20 years, what did they bring but war and destruction? Kabul regime are the same warlord and lifafa politicians which can only live by corruption and foreign money.

Pakistan can help alot in development of Afghanistan and its modernization.



Pathan/Bathan means front part of a ship. It is not the name of any ethnicity.

I have asked so many Arabs and no one has heard of bathan.

As for Taliban rule, i don't agree that they will be any different than their previous time.
 
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I have asked so many Arabs and no one has heard of bathan.

As for Taliban rule, i don't agree that they will be any different than their previous time.

I found this.

The family name Pathan is one of the oldest Anglo-Saxon names of Britain. It was originally a name for a person who worked as a boatman. The surname Pathan is derived from the Anglo-Saxon word bat, which means a boat. In some cases, the name is also derived from the Old English word bate, which means one who contends, but this word is most often found as the root of the name Bater.

https://www.houseofnames.com/pathan-family-crest
 
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I found this.

The family name Pathan is one of the oldest Anglo-Saxon names of Britain. It was originally a name for a person who worked as a boatman. The surname Pathan is derived from the Anglo-Saxon word bat, which means a boat. In some cases, the name is also derived from the Old English word bate, which means one who contends, but this word is most often found as the root of the name Bater.

https://www.houseofnames.com/pathan-family-crest

lol mate, that has made it even worse, so Pathan is an anglo-saxon name. After reading that i further hate being called a Pathan.
 
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