Historical : Sukhoi Su-22 Afghan Air Force

[Dr. Strangelove]

I always hope for a better Afghanistan.
I want to visit Ghor region in afghanistan some day.

they have to accept durrand line as an border if not then.....................

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Am I hearing this right? Pakistan was responsible for the Taliban, the Pakistani military trained, sheltered, equipped, fed, and recruited those radicles to fight the Soviet Union.

I'm in shock that anyone would embarrass themselves with such a statement, so either read up or forget the propaganda they taught you in Pakistan.

Taliban rised to power in the 90s... so much for propoganda... and tht too.. after Mullah Umar killed some rapist warlord...

You need a history lesson, Afghanistan went through a Saur revolution, which is no different then all the revolutions we see today in the middle east. It was After the revolution that the Democratic repulic of Afghanistan asked the Soviet union to militarily assist in stabilizing the country from the clans that were fighting the government, the same clans that have been fighting themselves or anyone for that matter. The Soviet Union was hesitant about any military involvement.

Haha.. Saur revolution... when communist part tookover by killed daoud khan? never knew communists believed in democracy?

As for the Soviet Union leaving no form of government--are you a fool? Are you seriously that ignorant in the subject? Pakistan and the US destroyed the Afghan government which the Soviet Union supported. The question is why Pakistan didn't leave any form of government or stability? The Soviet Union spent decades building Afghanistans infrastructures, they spend billions of dollars of their own money in bringing Afghanistan into the modern world, and the Soviet Union send it's soldiers to die for the Democratic Republic of Afghanistan, and after the Pakistanis destroyed everything you want the Soviets to install a government when Pakistan helped destroy the the old one.

Cool story... afghans were resisting soviet backed communist govt .. n the soviet sent army to help them... long before we got involved.

Shame on you for such gross twisting of history.

The Soviet Union even prior to 1979 built much of Afghanistan, this included hospitals, public transportation, dams, bridges, roads, power plants, schools, and factories. Women were encouraged to get an education and many did. With all of this publicly know information, I would like to know where you go your facts from, probably out of your rear end.

Sure and used the same facilities to bomb them aswell!

Or you could stop acting like Pakistan didn't destabilize the region by recruiting, arming, feeding, training, and housing fanaticals to destroy a legitimate government.

A mistake... we should have probably not gotten involved... but the warm waters theory might hold some water?

The only one that missed anything was you. The Afghan government was finally overthrown in 1993, almost immediately after the country went into the dark ages. Women started wearing bedsheets, schools were destroyed, factories were destroyed, and just about everything else was destroyed by the cavemen that Pakistan created.

Ehm.. soviet backed govt... by the afghans..... we acknowledged their govt much later.
So please enlighten me as well as the readers about these 15-20 years.

You have been fed so much propaganda that you remind me of the Okinawans that were led to believe that the Americans would eat their children. Hind helicopters that were tasked with hunting caravans (vehicles with fighters/weapons) would fly over suspected caravans and signal for the caravan to stop for visual inspection of the vehicle, if the caravan did not stop, warning shots would be fired, sometimes multiple warning shots would be fired. After every possible option has been exhausted it is then that the helicopter would engage.

Soviet forces put themselves in danger when they simply could have just destroyed any suspected Caravan, they simply could have destroyed every village instead of looking for individual persons.

Sure soviets were known for their love towards humanity... .... you should read a little about soviet attrocities... be it against the poles or the afghans...

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...=MKIKNTGT8HJX3ZUt38XxNQ&bvm=bv.49784469,d.dmg

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...=RmuEMOAKzWEdGe3qt_Ytgw&bvm=bv.49784469,d.dmg

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...=-ttVakK6zQ9uAU5TWw4XtA&bvm=bv.49784469,d.dmg


https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...=n332r-Aid3tr_atPkKxutQ&bvm=bv.49784469,d.dmg


In tht war over 1 million afghans died... millions injured/handicapped etc.. and millions became refugees in Pakistan and Iran... i wonder why?

No please tell everyone. We all enjoy some good old fashion propaganda.

Haha..

Would these be the same schools the Soviet union built Most of everything that was destroyed was destroyed by the Mujas, the same people Pakistan created.

Unless you are claiming that Pakistan did not create radicles and that it was not the radicles that destroyed schools but the Russians? Why not go further and claim it was also the Russians that forced women to cover their faces.

The problem was that although the roads were built, the electrical stations constructed, and the canals dug, nothing followed. Roads did not increase commerce, electricity did not encourage private factories, and irrigation failed to boost agricultural productivity. A Soviet economist lamented that, despite all the aid, GDP per capita actually declined in the 1960s. Although it rose slightly in the 1970s, the gain was insignificant. “If the current tempo is maintained,” another Soviet expert commented, “Afghanistan will never reach the global average.”

I wonder after NATO put so much money in afghanistan... why(afghans) are they still fighting them?

As for covering up... thts their culture... unlike the communist elite.

Plenty of terrorists were killed. As for 'blind greed', the Soviet Union got nothing from Afghanistan. In fact the Soviets spend billions on developing the country and billions more on fighting for the Afghan government.

No country gives away anything for free..

 

[Kompromat]

@ptldM3

Great apologies :clap:

 

[Manindra]

Please shut up and don't talk about something you have no knowledge of.

This is not logical answer.

Would you like to these uncivilised extremist goons take over your country.

 

[Jungibaaz]

This is not logical answer.

Actually, he hit the nail on the head.

Our Russian friend knows nothing of which he talks about.

Am I hearing this right? Pakistan was responsible for the Taliban, the Pakistani military trained, sheltered, equipped, fed, and recruited those radicles to fight the Soviet Union.

Well I tell you what mate. Am I in shock?

No, absolutely not. Why am I not in shock?
Because I've seen all this same false rhetoric, hundreds and hundreds of times before.
I'm not exaggerating here, hundreds of members of this forum and others who've started off with those very lines.

Now would you like me to repeat what I said. maybe it will stick this time.
Without the lot of you (I'm not going to blame you as a person), however, you've taken you're side here...

Without the Soviet Union and it's terrible occupation, there would be no taliban.

What are the the taliban? Extremists had always existed in Afghanistan, bu t never has this region ever seen something so extreme, so crazy, so conservative.

The taliban are a creation of war. They represent the lost generation in Afghanistan.
All the leaders, the educated, the teachers/professors, doctors, you name it... they all left. Anyone with a bit of money ran away. Brain drain occurred as all the intellectuals and educated fled. Others fled too, anyone who feared for their lives and could flee, did flee. In fact, I've heard stories, direct from Afghans of how their women and children fled, some men left behind.

But the point there is that a great deal of what was good about Afghanistan, it's future prospects, all it's capability to progress left with those people. Who remained, a handful of intellectuals and former leaders were left, most of them killed by the you guys and your puppets.

Then the sad state of education, schools and hospitals were destroyed massively, combine that with a non-existent economy, a state of war, no government. Education for many was non-existent. There were a few lucky kids who'd still be educated in Afghanistan and those who went to Pakistan and Iran.

That is a major cause of why the taliban was born. The Mujahideen was a different generation of people.
Now all they needed was a single source of igntion for an extremists ideology, I'll come on to that in a bit.

But don't forget this education point, it is a major part.
Observe that wherever in Af-Pak region, literacy rates are low, taliban presence is high.

I'm in shock that anyone would embarrass themselves with such a statement, so either read up or forget the propaganda they taught you in Pakistan.

No! You my friend are embarrassing yourself here!

To rebut, you go read up on this war what happened after, before assuming all the propaganda you've been fed by Russia and the west in the war on terror.

I say that to everyone, but no-one ever does read up, they just show their faces here with the same damn rhetoric every time. And I'm sure that's what you will do too.

You need a history lesson, Afghanistan went through a Saur revolution, which is no different then all the revolutions we see today in the middle east. It was After the revolution that the Democratic repulic of Afghanistan asked the Soviet union to militarily assist in stabilizing the country from the clans that were fighting the government, the same clans that have been fighting themselves or anyone for that matter. The Soviet Union was hesitant about any military involvement.

Yes, yes we all know what happened. But you cannot brush it off so easily. Though on a side note, it's good to see your researching rather than just posting your feelings and letting your imagination run wild.

You intervened in Afghanistan, you supported a revolution and some Soviet leaders claimed they did it to prevent a civil war, a civil war was to happen anyway, Soviets or no Soviets, only you folks added a new twist and took sides from the very beginning.

In essence, you intervened in a situation like Syria, which you tell others so eagerly not to, and I agree with you folks there, leave Syria alone. But also learn to accept mistakes of the past, put down all that propaganda, wont do you any good here.

As for the Soviet Union leaving no form of government--are you a fool?

Watch your mouth now matey, I haven't done anything to insult you.

But I will elaborate:

Are you seriously that ignorant in the subject?

I said and I quote 'no real form of government for many years', now are you at a loss for proper comprehension skills matey? I'll tell you what I meant by that quite simply; There was a government set up but only a long while after the invasion, then when the government was set up, it was at a loss of leaders, a few hundred people were appointed to run a country of 15-16 million. That is as much as a government as no government.

The same thing happened in Iraq with the US, a country of 17 million was left to rot while 300 people governed.
Now I wont go into the effects of this, if you have even the slightest understanding of the implication, you'll figure out the effects.

Pakistan and the US destroyed the Afghan government which the Soviet Union supported. The question is why Pakistan
didn't leave any form of government or stability?

Yes and I am proud of the fact that we destroyed the brutal regime that the majority of Afghans wanted to see dead and hanging for their crimes. The methodology was regrettable, we shouldn't have let the US and some Pakistani elements involve itself in radicalization.

But, we were not responsible for the Mujahideen, nor was the US. We did not invade and ruin Afghanistan the way you did, to be asked to form a government. No, we supported those that fought in their own lands. the problem later became that the Mujahideen itself was split into many different factions, many who hated each other because of war time episodes, but even so the cracks didn't appear till about 1992.

The Soviet Union spent decades building Afghanistans infrastructures, they spend billions of dollars of their own money in bringing Afghanistan into the modern world, and the Soviet Union send it's soldiers to die for the Democratic Republic of Afghanistan, and after the Pakistanis destroyed everything you want the Soviets to install a government when Pakistan helped destroy the the old one.

You saints! I wonder why Afghans ever hated you, they should have met you with sweets and garlands instead of guns and rage.

No, no, you see, what actually happened, if you'd like me to tell you here.

You invaded, supported one side in a political conflict, you killed many, many many, too many to count, a third of Afghans displaced, those that did not bow to your laws or of your counterparts, you used two policies on them, good Ol' genocide, something historians call migratory genocide, scorched earth policy. Anyone who didn't obey? bombed em. Any villages that did not bow? Bombed em, burnt all their crop, destroyed houses, forcing them to migrate to your territory, also to fight off any future resistance by scaring it in it's infancy.

You killed many people, destroyed a nation and attempted to rebuild. But with your vested interests at stake, a pro Soviet government, you built up Kabul, at the same time you raised the rest of Afghanistan to the ground, you embraced the PDPA, mayors of Kabul and slaughtered the rest of the Afghan people.

Make no mistake, they hate you. Should you step foot there again, you will be attacked with a fit of rage you've not seen since you were last there.

Shame on you for such gross twisting of history.

No, no shame on you for being so adamant about which you know squat about.

The Soviet Union even prior to 1979 built much of Afghanistan, this included hospitals, public transportation, dams, bridges, roads, power plants, schools, and factories. Women were encouraged to get an education and many did. With all of this publicly know information,

Yes, true many public projects were built by Soviet funds, however the destruction of Afghanistan you should not ignore or brush off.

Many schools and hospitals were destroyed, entire villages were destroyed, irrigation systems were destroyed, crops destroyed and in you look back at the history of this 80's say malnourishment in Afghanistan in the rural areas. Don't forget the mines you planted mines everywhere, many of which are still found here and there today, you destroyed much of what was untouched in the wilderness too, and also it took it's toll on civilians, civilians with limbs missing. Also, don't forget the use of chemical weapons, they did their job too.

Oh and I strongly recommend you read Jospeh Collin's Soviet policy towards Afghanistan. It's a good read and will help you escape from the false reality you've built.

I would like to know where you go your facts from, probably out of your rear end.

Again, keep this civil.
I've done nothing to insult you. let this be the final warning.
This is not youtube!

Or you could stop acting like Pakistan didn't destabilize the region by recruiting, arming, feeding, training, and housing fanaticals to destroy a legitimate government.

Yeah right, a legitimate form of government!?

It was a dictatorship, ruled by fear, killed opposition.
it overthrew a democracy and bought in a foreign bully.

Now Pakistan, we supported the Mujahideen, but we did not create the taliban.
The taliban were created in the Kandahar student movement. And these people had support, that is why their 1994 campaign spread like wildfire.

The only one that missed anything was you. The Afghan government was finally overthrown in 1993,

And here where the factions of the Mujahideen and cracks appeared.
It led to civil war. I didn't miss any such part, my understanding includes the Soviet government collapse, which i may add should have happened immediately after the 88' Geneva accords, but it lasted years more, only adding to problems.

almost immediately after the country went into the dark ages. Women started wearing bedsheets, schools were destroyed, factories were destroyed, and just about everything else was destroyed by the cavemen that Pakistan created.

See, here you go again with the same of old crap rhetoric.
Those 'bed sheets', women have been wearing those in Afghanistan since many years before, before the Soviets before the taliban, probably even a hundred years earlier. But they were forced upon them by the taliban after the civil war.

Now, they were created by three evils, the Soviet invasion and what it did to Afghanistan, first and fore most.

Where you had control you threw away religion and culture and forced people to be like that. The Mujahideen in their own way attempted to correct that. add that to the list of issues above, you have your source of ignition which I talked about.

The second evil was the CIA blatantly using religion as a tool, I remember the kind of books that were given to Afghan children teaching them Jihad. here form an old post of mine:

''The CIA supplied hundreds of thousands of books to Afghan children.
Designed and written by the university of Nebraska.

These books taught children Jihad...

The links for this in case you guys need one are from the Washington Post and Canadian broadcasting corporation.
But are from 2002 and have expired. But I trust the site I found it from, other links work and I've used this site before.

University of Nebraska

An example from the the textbooks from Uni of Nebraska...
Taken from a math book.

- If out of 10 atheists, 5 are killed by 1 Muslim, 5 would be left.
- 5 guns + 5 guns = 10 guns
- 15 bullets – 10 bullets = 5 bullets, etc.''

The last evil was our own in Pakistan, we aided the CIA and the Americans and involved religion, by letting Islamic jamaat take part. But to say we created taliban, that's a load of nonsense.

''The CIA supplied hundreds of thousands of books to Afghan children.
Designed and written by the university of Nebraska.

These books taught children Jihad...

The links for this in case you guys need one are from the Washington Post and Canadian broadcasting corporation.
But are from 2002 and have expired. But I trust the site I found it from, other links work and I've used this site before.

So please enlighten me as well as the readers about these 15-20 years.

I think I've done that adequately enough. Now I advise you to read through it, no matter how much your loyalty tells you not to, read it and you will hear a story you refuse to acknowledge exists.

You have been fed so much propaganda that you remind me of the Okinawans that were
led to believe that the Americans would eat their children.

That is a rich comment coming from you mate.
What you're saying, propaganda is an understatement, that is the result of indoctrination.

Hind helicopters that were tasked with hunting caravans (vehicles with fighters/weapons) would fly over suspected caravans and signal for the caravan to stop for visual inspection of the vehicle, if the caravan did not stop, warning shots would be fired, sometimes multiple warning shots would be fired. After every possible option has been exhausted it is then that the helicopter would engage.

Again a load of nonsense.

You bombed villages, brunt crops, destroyed irrigation systems and planted mines, also used chemical weapons Napalm at times.

And you're here telling us you used those helicopters as air ambulances for the betterment of the common man? Ha.

Have some shame.

Soviet forces put themselves in danger when they simply could have just destroyed any suspected Caravan, they simply could have destroyed every village instead of looking for individual persons.

Um yeah, I'm quite sure they did this a lot. After all 1+ million dead civilians doesn't jut happen on it's own.

No please tell everyone. We all enjoy some good old fashion propaganda.

Well @Aeronaut seems to have identified the same policy mentioned above.

The scorched earth policy. I've already briefly outlined the migratory genocide policy, so....

Remember when I talked about burnt crops and destroyed irrigation systems?
Yeah that was scorched earth. The destruction of the life blood of the Afghan economy and people: agricultural resources.

In fact, the use of napalm and chemical weapons all comes under this too.

And if you'd allow me to add, this policy was part of the reason why Afghanistan became the leader in opium productions, poor farmers, beaten with no source of income facing malnutrition started growing opium. And if you look at the time Soviet employed this policy in the early/mid-80's you'll see that with a a few months/years reactionary time, opium production took off too.

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So, to finish off here. Go do some reading instead of telling me to. Get rid of that damned delusion you've been fed. Have some shame instead of brushing off the deaths of so many.

Oh and also, watch your language and don't be abusive. I haven't said or done anything to provoke such responses.

Good day,

 

[Kompromat]

@Jungibaaz

He is just trying to defend the atrocities, that should be enough to know who you are talking to.

@Manindra

This is the logical way, i can test your detailed knowledge in Afghanistan, a knowledge you don't have.