Historical Background of Pakistan and its People/Rarely part of India/IVC

[PakFactor]

Oxford history books & even our own Pakistani historians won't tell us that.

Effects of colonialism I guess?

We've over the last 2-3 centuries allowed outsiders to research and write our history that fits their narrative never had a homogenous written history.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

My great grand father came from hijaz saudi saudi to sindh province east of river sindh , 700 years ago its written in family book. Sindh was east of river and the province was alot bigger than today's sindh it reached outskirts of mumbai back then.

3 of his brothers stayed in multan and kasur region and stayed there. 7 brothers all of them had came from hijaz . 3 stayed in multan and kasur region.

2 went into uzbekistan region it was a big country then all central asians were under one islamic flag.

One of them went to russian/chinese region of mogulistan (xinjiang).

My great grand father who i am son of stayed in Muzaffarbaad where i live.

We have a book which says sindh hand alot of hindus people of the desert Kashmir Muzaffarabad was part of a big kashmiri and tibetan state sikhs buddhist and hindus lived there in majority

My great grand fathers duty was to preach and give them message of quran. Even the british learnt about islam from him.

Back then it was a different time and people argue that its its historic books written in arabic and persian by my family fore fathers and hsotory can be changed.

Anyways kashmir was a very diverse land when they came with mostly buddist people and tibetans in north and muslims near gilgit region and jn azad kashmir region sikhs were in majority it is written .

They started trade and my grand father's father had 545 horse and ox carts which used to trade between muzaffarabad and srinagar and rawalpindi reguon later abbootabad too.

In last 300 years though most hindus and buddists became muslims as they read the quran in their own languages.


If the 1947-48 war didn't happen we muslims who were in over 80% majority would have joined Pakistan.

But before that wars started and its written that even if we wanted to protect minorities they were not safe as both sides were killing many people and revenge killings were common in all states.

I am not qualified to tell about kashmirz as they call us the arabs or parmi in kashmiri language parmi means foreigner... From 700 years still foreigners haha.


Anyways that was the past. These days still there are many sub cultures present in various valley's of kashmir all are unqiue with unique languages and dialects even though we are few we are diverse.

I have never been to indian occupied kashmir but father and fore fathers have been there back then it was just kashmir not Pakistani not indian. Just pricely state of kashmir.

Thank you so much for your lovely family history brother. Jazak Allahu khairan.

My family originally was from the two northernmost districts of East Punjab, right on the border of Kashmir, we were Rajputs which had many lands and prestige in those areas since Mughal times and even before. Most of that region was majority Muslim, but it was given to Indians by British complicity.

It was a difficult trek to leave everything and make the route to Pakistan by foot, but my grandparents all made it. Alhamdulilah they got here safely, but many of our relatives were not so lucky.

 

[Itachi]

We've over the last 2-3 centuries allowed outsiders to research and write our history that fits their narrative never had a homogenous written history.

Exactly!

The British excavated most of the IVC sites, which were already known to the locals btw....and imposed their own findings onto us, which the Indians later expanded on.

I'm sure there are many more sites left to be uncovered in Balochistan (Pakistani & Irani sides), Sindh, Punjab, KPK & Kashmir.

Heck, our historians and scientists also need to reevaluate whatever we have in our museums & other national archives. We might find some interesting stuff who knows.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Oxford history books & even our own Pakistani historians won't tell us that.

Effects of colonialism & inferiority complex I guess?

We've over the last 2-3 centuries allowed outsiders to research and write our history that fits their narrative never had a homogenous written history.

When I was in undergrad and I had some time, I would check out all the books in our South Asian history section in our university library. Over time I realized that most British or Hindu written books on the subject of Muslim history, Partition, or Pakistan were plainly hate-mongering and false propaganda, filled with strange unsourced and urban legends stories which would make your skin crawl.

I began looking into Pakistani authors, that is when I began to appreciate our history and our struggles during Partition. Particularly my university had many books on Quaid e Azam, which is truly a blessing. I began to appreciate his way of thinking and his struggles so much.

Then eventually I began reading Allama Iqbal and gained a deeper appreciation for our historical context.

The problem is not the lack of resources, there are many, but the medium of authentic information is Urdu, save some books on partition and Quaid e Azam. English language sources are all biased against Pakistan mostly. Even the most innocent of books or encyclopedias have blatant Islamophobic and incorrect information.

We need to publish more works in English, and further translate Urdu books into Arabic, Turkish, Dari, Spanish, French, and other languages.

 

[Itachi]

We need to publish more works in English, and further translate Urdu books into Arabic, Turkish, Dari, Spanish, French, and other languages.

We also need to update those books written in Urdu and re-publish them. A lot of the books written in Urdu, pre-2000's degrade very easily....their bindings start ripping apart etc etc. The books also need proper footnotes/citations with sources, explanation of Urdu words not known/forgotten by the general public, etc.

Might even solve the problem many Pakistanis (living in or out of the country) face when most of the stuff they read is in English, i.e. they start using English words when speaking Urdu.

 

[PakFactor]

When I was in undergrad and I had some time, I would check out all the books in our South Asian history section in our university library. Over time I realized that most British or Hindu written books on the subject of Muslim history, Partition, or Pakistan were plainly hate-mongering and false propaganda, filled with strange unsourced and urban legends stories which would make your skin crawl.

I began looking into Pakistani authors, that is when I began to appreciate our history and our struggles during Partition. Particularly my university had many books on Quaid e Azam, which is truly a blessing. I began to appreciate his way of thinking and his struggles so much.

Then eventually I began reading Allama Iqbal and gained a deeper appreciation for our historical context.

The problem is not the lack of resources, there are many, but the medium of authentic information is Urdu, save some books on partition and Quaid e Azam. English language sources are all biased against Pakistan mostly. Even the most innocent of books or encyclopedias have blatant Islamophobic and incorrect information.

We need to publish more works in English, and further translate Urdu books into Arabic, Turkish, Dari, Spanish, French, and other languages.

We also need to update those books written in Urdu and re-publish them. A lot of the books written in Urdu, pre-2000's degrade very easily....their bindings start ripping apart etc etc. The books also need proper footnotes/citations with sources, explanation of Urdu words not known/forgotten by the general public, etc.

Might even solve the problem many Pakistanis (living in or out of the country) face when most of the stuff they read is in English, i.e. they start using English words when speaking Urdu.

Both what you've said is very true. Due to this degrading as one of you put it our youth aren't developing the proper understanding of our history in creating Pakistan -- this is fueling rise to such professors as we've seen in Sindh who have a lose moral compass and understanding.

I have been for quite some time been thinking about writing a book a brief on our culture and what it means to be a Pakistaniat but haven't found anyone to collaborate with who has a much deeper understanding and can help me, my background is in business/finance. But I do see people on this forum I can collaborate with and publish a digital book.

We need to focus on digital publication's as the print/read will be there but not as strong as before. This will allow one to reach a much wider audience.

And I believe it was Edward Said who wrote a paper of Orientalism criticizing Western thought scholars on writing a bias history.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Both what you've said is very true. Due to this degrading as one of you put it our youth aren't developing the proper understanding of our history in creating Pakistan -- this is fueling rise to such professors as we've seen in Sindh who have a lose moral compass and understanding.

I have been for quite some time been thinking about writing a book a brief on our culture and what it means to be a Pakistaniat but haven't found anyone to collaborate with who has a much deeper understand and can help me, my background is in business/finance. But I do see people on this forum I can collaborate with and publish a digital book.

We need to focus on digital publication's as the print/read will be there but not as strong as before. This will allow one to reach a much wider audience.

That is a very good idea, and something which we should definitely push. For now, you could make some threads here on PDF. We really need to up the game as it concerns our Pakistani identity.

You should definitely make note of all members here in threads like these who value ancient Pakistani history, tag us, and push our narrative.

I was posting threads like this one on a regular basis, but then with 27 Feb 2019 and now Covid, I became distracted. We really should go back to this work, it is imperative.

 

[PakFactor]

@Itachi @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

I will narrate one thing. When I got married in Pakistan about 6-7 years ago, the misses and I went shopping in Satellite Town - Gujranwala and came across a book store. I always wanted to read about Allama Iqbal as my father always quoted him on many occasions, and I thought here I'm in Pakistan and I can pick up a book from a country with original source. I go in, looking around and finally saw the book picked it up and it was an English version of it. The bookstore guy comes up to me, noticing I'm wearing jeans and all, and says your from outside you might as well read something else and you will not learn anything from Allama Iqbal, then proceeded to say I myself was a teacher.

I sat quietly with the book I purchased at home and been contemplating that if we have scholars, teachers of this caliber who insult one's own leaders what can we expect from our youth. One way the Western world has been able to kill other nations besides war, is to destroy one's culture by rooting it out. We need not look back more than 70+ years when the 1st nuclear bombs were dropped, their initial targets were cities of religious influence to break the nations psychic; at that time we had men of moral character, but this time it will be different.

That is a very good idea, and something which we should definitely push. For now, you could make some threads here on PDF. We really need to up the game as it concerns our Pakistani identity.

You should definitely make note of all members here in threads like these who value ancient Pakistani history, tag us, and push our narrative.

I was posting threads like this one on a regular basis, but then with 27 Feb 2019 and now Covid, I became distracted. We really should go back to this work, it is imperative.

Inshallah, that is the goal now.

 

[Itachi]

I will narrate one thing. When I got married in Pakistan about 6-7 years ago, the misses and I went shopping in Satellite Town - Gujranwala and came across a book store. I always wanted to read about Allama Iqbal as my father always quoted him on many occasions, and I thought here I'm in Pakistan and I can pick up a book from a country with original source. I go in, looking around and finally saw the book picked it up and it was an English version of it. The bookstore guy comes up to me, noticing I'm wearing jeans and all, and says your from outside you might as well read something else and you will not learn anything from Allama Iqbal, then proceeded to say I myself was a teacher.

Bruh.....that guy's the reason why public Pakistani education is fucked up.....private education isn't far behind either.

Next time you visit Gujranwala, visit the Urdu Bazaar near Ghanta Ghar. Lots of superb book markets in there.

I sat quietly with the book I purchased at home and been contemplating that if we have scholars, teachers of this caliber who insult one's own leaders what can we expect from our youth. One way the Western world has been able to kill other nations besides war, is to destroy one's culture by rooting it out. We need not look back more than 70+ years when the 1st nuclear bombs were dropped, their initial targets were cities of religious influence to break the nations psychic; at that time we had men of moral character, but this time it will be different.

Exactly, it pains me how regular Pakistanis don't see their culture being destroyed from within, after centuries of onslaught by the outsiders. The British tried their best to destroy our books, killed many of our scholars and suppressed Farsi & Urdu.

But, all isn't lost. I see some small, local revivals going on and I also fully support your efforts also.

 

[Raghav_101]

Depends what your definition of "Hindu" or "Hinduism" is...

If you go far back enough, monotheism was and is still apparent within Hinduism. And Hinduism in itself is a foreign concept within South Asia.

Let me give you a brief history lesson.....I wrote most of the stuff in here already: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/implications-of-barli-inscription.661940/

Brief History Lesson:

Indus Valley Civilization, part of the earliest civilizations on planet Earth, I call them the Big 7:

Depending on the book, article or the time period you look at, there can be anywhere from 6 to 8 major early civilizations. The Big 3 are Egypt, Mesopotamia (modern day Iraq, parts of Levant & Iran) & the IVC based in Pakistan and Northern India. The Big 3 were also the first to form in our current understanding of known world history.

Indus Valley Civilization (3300 - 1300 BCE):

Broken down into 3 phases....Early Harappan Phase (3300 - 2600 BCE), Mature Harappan Phase (2600 - 1900 BCE), and Late Harappan Phase (1900 - 1300 BCE).

^Shows all 3 phases.

Then come the "Vedic Religions"....."religions" because that's what modern day Hinduism is...

Vedic Religions reigned in the Gangetic Plains while Buddhism was dominant in modern day Pakistan, evidence is such sites as Taxila, Ghandhara and the Buddha statues in Afghanistan.

Buddhism was suppressed throughout South Asia by the Hindus which is why it moved to China and South-East Asia.

Following the above timeline and the advent of Islam, people in the subcontinent started going back to monotheism. Yes, going back....which is why I said that monotheism existed within Hinduism (which is a fact you can look into) & has been there since time immemorial in many forms. Even our dear Chinese neighbors to the North had monotheism before they moved onto ancestor worshipping, and their religions.

^Indian source.

India: An Archaeological History: Palaeolithic Beginnings to Early Historic Foundations. Dilip K. Chakrabarty (2009).

Fun Fact: Aramaic was the precursor to Arabic. It was spoken by Prophet Isa/Essa R.A., known in Christianity & Islam.

You can see I brought in a comprehensive viewpoint....neither overly secular or religious. Since no matter how much people try to deny it, religion does play a big part. It did in the Ancient World and so it does in the present day.

Being overly secular or religious is where most problems start.

Nothing here that I don't know already. You missed my entire point. Leave it.

 

[PakFactor]

Bruh.....that guy's the reason why public Pakistani education is fucked up.....private education isn't far behind either.

Next time you visit Gujranwala, visit the Urdu Bazaar near Ghanta Ghar. Lots of superb book markets in there.



Exactly, it pains me how regular Pakistanis don't see their culture being destroyed from within, after centuries of onslaught by the outsiders. The British tried their best to destroy our books, killed many of our scholars and suppressed Farsi & Urdu.

But, all isn't lost. I see some small, local revivals going on and I also fully support your efforts also.

Thanks bro. I might contact you and few others on this forum. Start following me profile wise and let’s coordinate this inshallah

 

[Itachi]

Nothing here that I don't know already. You missed my entire point. Leave it.

You should reiterate your point if I missed it.