Highest ever hydel electricity generated in 2019-20

[Major Sam]

These micro dams reduce that demand load. They produce enough electricity to power small villages, and town. During summer time, the demand increases, since more A/C being used. Even malls central AC increases its usage.

Another thing, Pakistan has more then enough capacity to meet the demand. The issue is, delivery. We are still using old outdated technology for delivery. This cause massive loss of electricity. We need to upgrade that. I read somewhere that Karachi alone would need, almost $15billion to upgrade its electricity infrastructure.

Previously we will be using quite significant share of crude oil for generation which is down to less than 5-10% now. RLNG cost on avg 10-15 and coal 8-12 , hydel 1-3pkr per unit. Govt. Is looting common man to over come line losses and theft. You need to look their efficiency by checking how much theft they have controlled or how.much recovery they have made in last years. It will not b much.

So when you add up all these per unit cost will increased exponentially for those who are paying it.

This all lead to inflation eventually.

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

Then why there is LoadShedding in Karachi?

 

[ziaulislam]

Not agreeing with the list produced above but for the sake of argument PML(N) launched 14 projects, 4 are hydel, 2 are nuclear, 3 are RLNG based, 1 is solar based, 2 are coal based, 1 is oil based and 1 is oil/gas based. These are described as high price imported environment toxic fuel projects.

While supposedly PTI launched 18 projects using same sources as fuel as PML(N) projects but are described as mostly based on cheaper, renewable, environmental friendly.

I am confused and thinking are PTI projects using different water, different nuclear fuel, different RLNG or different coal that they are environmental friendly while PML(N) projects are not environment friendly.

If we have surplus power generation capacity why are we launching new non hydel projects.

highly misleading
1. NJ was started by musharraf and hit several snags during PPPP and PMLN era until the Chinese govt intervened and provided funded..both PMLN and PPPP did criminal negliance in that project simply because metros were more important. secondly, it was a strategic project to claim NJ water which we failed(by missing deadline) otherwise not a very cost-effective project
2. Tarbela IV project was envisioned in 2003 and funding 100% FOREIGN was approved in PPPP era..anyone can built a project if you get 100% funding and you already have contractor assigned. IF ANY CREDIT, SHOULD GO TO PPPP
3. quaid-i-azam solar project was ridiculously expensive 3X more expensive than the market rates
4. LNGs were not a bad idea to get quick power iin the system given LNG is cheapes source..though not as good as coal for pakistan(given coal will be indegnous) it is second best, and PMLN deserve some credit here

in summary, after wasting 2-3 years PML N suddenly went in for short term LNG which was not a bad decision given we need power like yesterday, however, no long term or cheaper hydro projects were planned or initiated.

Previously we will be using quite significant share of crude oil for generation which is down to less than 5-10% now. RLNG cost on avg 10-15 and coal 8-12 , hydel 1-3pkr per unit. Govt. Is looting common man to over come line losses and theft. You need to look their efficiency by checking how much theft they have controlled or how.much recovery they have made in last years. It will not b much.

So when you add up all these per unit cost will increased exponentially for those who are paying it.

This all lead to inflation eventually.

private hydro will cost 7 cents or 13 rupees.
this because of BOAT model where the project will be handed free of cost to govt in 30 years..i believe the tarrif should be brought down via different concession or prolonging the period

also this includes 1.5 cents for the royality

 

[AZ1]

highly misleading
1. NJ was started by musharraf and hit several snags during PPPP and PMLN era until the Chinese govt intervened and provided funded..both PMLN and PPPP did criminal negliance in that project simply because metros were more important. secondly, it was a strategic project to claim NJ water which we failed(by missing deadline) otherwise not a very cost-effective project
2. Tarbela IV project was envisioned in 2003 and funding 100% FOREIGN was approved in PPPP era..anyone can built a project if you get 100% funding and you already have contractor assigned. IF ANY CREDIT, SHOULD GO TO PPPP
3. quaid-i-azam solar project was ridiculously expensive 3X more expensive than the market rates
4. LNGs were not a bad idea to get quick power iin the system given LNG is cheapes source..though not as good as coal for pakistan(given coal will be indegnous) it is second best, and PMLN deserve some credit here

in summary, after wasting 2-3 years PML N suddenly went in for short term LNG which was not a bad decision given we need power like yesterday, however, no long term or cheaper hydro projects were planned or initiated.

I don't blame PMLN for projects they have started they had bad luck in this we needed electricity and there were no short solution for this except to go for high rate electricity but then public is suffering now.

 

[ziaulislam]

hydro by WB would cost around 5 rupees
LNG would cost around 7-8 cents, furnace oil around 12 cents and coal due to high RR around 7-8 cents too
5-6 cents for thar coal

I don't blame PMLN for projects they have started they had bad luck in this we needed electricity and there were no short solution for this except to go for high rate electricity but then public is suffering now.

i fully blame them
for first 3 years they literally did NOTHING
then they had a panic episode and went for LNG with NO LONG TERM PLANNING FOR CHEAPER MIX PROJECTS THE FUTURE
also ZERO planning in distribution.
in other words a **** up

they started coal project and than abandoned it after 16 months..total waste of time..
they should have gone ahead with coastal coal project with money from PSDPand should have started atleast munda, dasu dam..

had they did that ..today we would have different situation

the only new thing they did right was start Chinese back nuclear projects..which probably the Chinese pushed harder given 100% foreign funding of heat project.

in other words he govt did nothing, it simply got lucky here and there

 

[ejaz007]

highly misleading
1. NJ was started by musharraf and hit several snags during PPPP and PMLN era until the Chinese govt intervened and provided funded..both PMLN and PPPP did criminal negliance in that project simply because metros were more important. secondly, it was a strategic project to claim NJ water which we failed(by missing deadline) otherwise not a very cost-effective project
2. Tarbela IV project was envisioned in 2003 and funding 100% FOREIGN was approved in PPPP era..anyone can built a project if you get 100% funding and you already have contractor assigned. IF ANY CREDIT, SHOULD GO TO PPPP
3. quaid-i-azam solar project was ridiculously expensive 3X more expensive than the market rates
4. LNGs were not a bad idea to get quick power iin the system given LNG is cheapes source..though not as good as coal for pakistan(given coal will be indegnous) it is second best, and PMLN deserve some credit here

in summary, after wasting 2-3 years PML N suddenly went in for short term LNG which was not a bad decision given we need power like yesterday, however, no long term or cheaper hydro projects were planned or initiated.


private hydro will cost 7 cents or 13 rupees.
this because of BOAT model where the project will be handed free of cost to govt in 30 years..i believe the tarrif should be brought down via different concession or prolonging the period

also this includes 1.5 cents for the royality

1. Musharaf did nothing for NJ project. It was a technically and financially a difficult project. Finally completed by PML (N).

http://www.wapda.gov.pk/index.php/projects/hydro-power/o-m/neelum-jhelum

2. Tarbella IV extension also showed real progress in PPPP / PML (N) tenure.

https://projects.worldbank.org/en/projects-operations/project-detail/P115893?lang=en&tab=overview

3. Solar technology is not indigenous and is expensive. However the project is profitable. You can visit the link and see Usman Buzdar collecting profit cheque.
https://www.qasolar.com/

4. RLNG projects were meant to be stopgap arrangement till hydel project came online. With current price drop in LNG the project should not be as expensive as claimed by many.

We should completely stop non hydel project and fully support and focus on hydel projects which I think PTI is mainly focus on and that is good sign. Examples are

Bunji Dam

Mohmand Dam

https://www.dawn.com/news/1479799

Diamer Dam
https://profit.pakistantoday.com.pk...asha-dam-contract-awarded-to-power-china-fwo/

Suki Kinari dam

https://profit.pakistantoday.com.pk...ect-to-be-completed-on-time-despite-covid-19/

Murunj Dam

There are other dams also. So lets hope it will bring fruits In Sha ALLAH



Mafia became active that's what happened along with corrupt awam.

Now 2 rupees K.E electric ask to be increased and then subsidy given by govt another 2 rupees

"Instead of passing on the full impact, the government has decided to increase tariffs by 22.5% and would give Rs25.5 billion in subsidy in the current fiscal year to bear the loss on account of remaining Rs2 per unit."

First impression given by media and all that furnace oil is not available that's why happening. When that sort yet load shedding happening and now after increase rate load shedding is reduce and will come down to none.

Major dams take time to built. They are technically and financially very challenging projects. Till these are completed we need stop gap arrangements which oil/gas/LNG based projects are.

With current PKR USD price fluctuations all hydel projects cost shall have to be recalculated and it takes time. Then re-approvals shall be required. Then renegotiation with lenders shall have to be completed. In short it takes time to complete hydel projects.

 

[RealNapster]

Govt. Is no where to be seen to sort out these issues. Even with 40% generation from hydel we are paying damn 22-25 pkr per unit. One of the highest in the world.

For residential, First initial 300 unit you pay Rs 8.4 per unit. After that 17.4 per unit. I dont know why they charge you PKR 22-28 per unit.

 

[Major Sam]

For residential, First initial 300 unit you pay Rs 8.4 per unit. After that 17.4 per unit. I dont know why they charge you PKR 22-28 per unit.

You forgot to add taxes + qtr fuel adjust.

 

[AZ1]

1. Musharaf did nothing for NJ project. It was a technically and financially a difficult project. Finally completed by PML (N).

http://www.wapda.gov.pk/index.php/projects/hydro-power/o-m/neelum-jhelum

2. Tarbella IV extension also showed real progress in PPPP / PML (N) tenure.

https://projects.worldbank.org/en/projects-operations/project-detail/P115893?lang=en&tab=overview

3. Solar technology is not indigenous and is expensive. However the project is profitable. You can visit the link and see Usman Buzdar collecting profit cheque.
https://www.qasolar.com/

4. RLNG projects were meant to be stopgap arrangement till hydel project came online. With current price drop in LNG the project should not be as expensive as claimed by many.



Major dams take time to built. They are technically and financially very challenging projects. Till these are completed we need stop gap arrangements which oil/gas/LNG based projects are.

With current PKR USD price fluctuations all hydel projects cost shall have to be recalculated and it takes time. Then re-approvals shall be required. Then renegotiation with lenders shall have to be completed. In short it takes time to complete hydel projects.

Major dams takes time and not good for political parties to start to get vote thsts why pmln gone for metro train etc which bring no $ and burden to the economy as well.
Pti on other hands going for major dams knowingly they may not be here in next election and by 2028 or 2030 we will have major dams as well. If Pmln started in 2013 or 2014 we would have by 2023.

So we are 10 years late and kala bagh is out of question thanks to ppp.

 

[PakAlp]

Previous Pakistani governments committed treachery by not producing electricity. Didn't they know that in the future their will be shortfall and it will cost us economically, we lost Billions due to power shortage in our country.

What do you guys think is the main reason why those previous governments didn't produce electricity, or start hydol projects. Was it corruption? Lack of money? Lack of foresight?

I believe it was betrayal, as I dont believe anybody could be that naive, they knew very well we would have issues but because of bribery and kickbacks they decided to use gas/oil to produce electricity. If Pakistan had huge Dams already built then we wouldn't be needing to import expensive oil and gas, and if at the moment 2020 we had huge dams built we would be exporting electricity, and even bringing out electric motor bikes, electric buses etc. This would be damaging to those countries who we are importing oil/gas from.

Nobody wants to see a independent successful Pakistan.

 

[Major Sam]

For residential, First initial 300 unit you pay Rs 8.4 per unit. After that 17.4 per unit. I dont know why they charge you PKR 22-28 per unit.

300,kw for 1 month is nothing for any household of 3+. You will always cross it.

For developing countries 300kw per month is very low energy consumption. If you compare with other countries mostly house hold use around 1000+-.

Even if you use 2 fans + 4 led lights only you will easily cross 180 units a month. Forget about anything else.
You have to then add r
tv, water motor, etc

 

[RealNapster]

You forgot to add taxes + qtr fuel adjust.

Last month i paid Pkr 5800 for 364 unit bill. It included all taxes i am sure. Divide 5800 by 364 and it seems i almost paid Pkr 16 per unit.

I agree a more reasonable price would be Pkr 12-14 (including taxes), but then majority of our powerplants are IPP's. So....


I think there should be a fixed tax. No 10 different types of taxes. Lets say

Below 300 units. Pay fix 500 tax
Unit 300-400. Pay fix 800 tax.
Unit 400-500. Pay fix 1000 tax.

Like that.
After 1000+ units. Pay fix 2500 tax.

These taxes still low as compare to what we pay now.

 

[AZ1]

Previous Pakistani governments committed treachery by not producing electricity. Didn't they know that in the future their will be shortfall and it will cost us economically, we lost Billions due to power shortage in our country.

What do you guys think is the main reason why those previous governments didn't produce electricity, or start hydol projects. Was it corruption? Lack of money? Lack of foresight?

Because it takes 10 years time to build and they wouldnt able to do corruption as much as by building roads and its not suitable for their political speech as well. People of pakistan wants miracles to happens within weeks so they gave road enjoy

 

[Zibago]

then why govt is providing expensive electricity and also why when during more hot weather load shedding starts in Islamabad which is capital of Pakistan if such dams are producing high electricity,I think these micro dams are not reality and work only during few seasons ,these types of small water streams are already used by public in local areas for generating electricity without govt help and they not produce significant power


if hydel power share of electricity rises it should have some affect on reducing electricity cost but it is increasing every day as demand of electricity is not much in Pakistan as govt claimed that we have produced more electricity than needed

Load shedding in Islamabad? Where? I live here and there is no loadshedding

 

[Major Sam]

Last month i paid Pkr 5800 for 364 unit bill. It included all taxes i am sure. Divide 5800 by 364 and it seems i almost paid Pkr 16 per unit.

I agree a more reasonable price would be Pkr 12-14 (including taxes), but then majority of our powerplants are IPP's. So....


I think there should be a fixed tax. No 10 different types of taxes. Lets say

Below 300 units. Pay fix 500 tax
Unit 300-400. Pay fix 800 tax.
Unit 400-500. Pay fix 1000 tax.

Like that.
After 1000+ units. Pay fix 2500 tax.

These taxes still low as compare to what we pay now.

Not any more since hydel makeup 40% of total power generation. Now we have coal and rlng power plants too.

Btw i gonna pay 8100 for 450 units see the jump just with 100 unit increase its 2600 from your bill.

As you will go up like 600-700 units you will pay even way more.