HBO Documentry: Fixer...The taking of Ajmal Naqshbandi

[Peshwa]

Hi All,

I saw a very interesting HBO Documentry called Fixer: The Taking of Ajmal Naqshbandi last night.

First off, Im very fascinated about Afghanistan, a land I have wanted to visit ever since I saw the movie "Kabuliwala".....however after watching this doc, trust me I dont think I will be able to step foot in that land....at least not in the near future.....

The story revolves around these Afghan locals, focussing in particular on Mr. Ajmal Naqshbandi......who are "fixers" who arrange interviews and meetings between foreign journalists and the Taliban......many a times at the risk of their own lives.....

This documentry speaks of a series of unforunate events that lead to the kidnapping of an Italian Journalist along with his "local eyes and ears" , Ajmal and another driver.......
The events that transpired lead to the beheading of the driver and eventually Ajmal as well......but the Italian Journo is freed thanks to an exchange bartered by the Italians.....
The doc depicts some gruesome scenes of beheading.......(I have become a little stronger having seen this....trust me it will make your stomach churn)

What made me extremely sad is the fact that the callous government of Afghanistan would not even consider protecting its own citizens, but instead throw them to the wolves that are these *** bastards the Taliban!!!!

Now here is the kicker......The Afghans.... locals, government officials, even ex-Taliban all claim that the ISI is funding the Taliban, both in Pakistan and Afghanistan and that the instructions to kill Ajmal came directly from Pakistan and ISI!!!!

As opposed to General belief on this forum, not even a single person mentioned India as having any involvement in Afghanistan whatsoever.....going so far as mentioning intelligence agencies of Iranians, US and even Italians, who hardly have any stake in Afghanistan.

Unfortunately, since this is a new documentry and its is not available online as yet there is no actual video of the documentry however.....
I suggest everyone to see this eye opener......really gives you the nitty-gritty about the situation in Afghanistan.....even shows a live footage of a US convoy bombed by Taliban that the these animals portray on their channels to inspire youth.....

The only questions I have is, why do all Pakistani's feel that India is involved in Afghanistan? Apart from rants from Pakistani officials (who are bound to shrug any responsibility for the state of their country, but rather blame India) we havent seen any concrete evidence of Indian involvement!!!!

Below is the link to the HBO website......

HBO Documentaries: Documentary Films Series 2009: Fixer: The Taking of Ajmal Naqshbandi: Synopsis

Thanks
Peshwa

 

[Developereo]

If you get your "facts" from HBO documentaries, then you have a ways to go...

 

[Peshwa]

^^^ I think you're confusing a "documentry" with a "movie".......

Its real life, with real people and real events...as reported worldwide...........there's hardly much that can be faked in a documentry......maybe if you watch it, you will realize that ......Why dont you take a look and come back and argue when you have a little more credibility!!!

I dont mean to be rude....but I want to have a serious discussion on this.....I am very disturbed/concerned after watching this!!!

 

[All-Green]

ISI seems the strongest agency in the world which seems to have a demonic hold on the very Afghan Taliban who should actually feel betrayed by Pakistan, the country which ISI protects and serves, first and foremost!
The media should give it a rest...try not to stink more than they already do...
Was it not Pakistan which succumbed to US pressure and gave access to foreign powers in waging a war in Afghanistan which has broken the Taliban hold on their (being Afghans) country?
Is not very absurd to assume any loyalty on part of Taliban with Pakistan and ISI, if the accusation that they were created by ISI is true?
On the other hand i would like to say once again till it sinks in that Taliban were not trained by ISI, ISI trained Mujahidden who split into many factions and one of them is the Taliban...if you want to blame ISI for training of Mujahidden then USA takes the stage as well and mind you even Ahmed Shah Masud (beloved of India) was being helped in some capacity by Pakistan and had close links with ISI as well during the Jihad...
Why turn a blind eye to these facts and talk about ISI alone?

The Taliban of Mullah Omar are mostly Pashtuns and are predominantly Afghans and they certainly do not take dictation from anyone...did they take dictation on the pleas of Pakistani Governments and all channels to give up Osama to US?
Even before that Saudi Arab demanded Osama from Taliban and Pakistan also backed this request of Saudis to try Osama in Saudia Arabia for actions against the kingdom but the same so called toadies of ISI denied this all....
These guys are tough nuts and they are not afraid to fight to death, so do not assume that all is what it is being made out by the media...why stop at ISI...why not blame USA for the Afghan unrest in post Soviet scenario?
Why not KGB for interfering in this region?
Why not RAW as well?
Read your history and Afghanistan was never a friend of Pakistan and it was not strategic buffer which people love to claim but a secure border manned by a friendly state which Pakistan tried to achieve by helping the Mujahideen and ever since those times it was Pakistan's policy to have cordial relations with Afghans, it was the afghans themselves who sided with Mullah Omar in his initial days since they were sick of the civil war and Omar promised unification and justice...read about how many days it took the Afghan Taliban to capture territory without the superior firepower the likes of US and Pakistan possess against the same kind of fighters which Pakistan and US are fighting so bloodily and only then this reality will dawn that at that time it was Afghans and not anybody else who supported the Taliban and due to this support Taliban were so successful in a land where conquerors are crushed since times ancient.
Whether most people realized that they had helped some undesirable people to grab power or whether they thought they were better off with Taliban than the warlords is not something we can say with surity...i think it was a bit of both and the society was segmented in these two factions, this led to polarization and more brutality which Taliban displayed especially the guest brigade of Osama bin Ladin which suppressed the Mazar e Sharif population with extreme prejudice...

I have been reading about and observing Afghan scenario since my childhood and let me make it point blank...There is a lot at stake for US, Russia, Iran, Pakistan and India both in Afghanistan and to pretend otherwise is to be devoid of logic and totally ignorant of the geo-strategic advantages at stake and the history of this troubled land.


No agency will ever control the Afghans, they are fiercely proud and independent, but they can and will always be manipulated due to their divisions and extreme nature...till they unify.

Regarding the so called dictation of ISI...then we have many prisoners from TTP (Tehrik e Taliban Pakistan) who claim that their leaders are being counseled by India...certainly the funding of TTP has a big question mark written all over it and being anti Pakistan...the notion to even think that they are also part of ISI grand scheme is 10 times worse than the accusation that 9/11 was a drama...far more Pakistanis have died at the hands of terrorists than Americans so i am afraid these documentaries are extremely biased most of the times and want to sell the cliche story of fiendish Muslim nation states and their diabolical Plans

Words are Wind..and if this so called documentary is that much short on its vision then i am afraid it is just another piece of trash thrown to malign ISI and nothing else.

 

[HK-47]

why did just write Ahmed Shah Massoud as the beloved of India?

 

[HAIDER]

Govt has assessed asset hold by Medsud,after his death was over 36 billion rupees. Just imagine. All 20 thousand boys were paid monthly salaries,very well trained. Best medical provided, imported medical equipment and blood from Singapore. Small mobile hospital with doctors.Best communication devices.
Is someone behind them ?....

 

[All-Green]

why did just write Ahmed Shah Massoud as the beloved of India?

Ahmed Shah Massud was being helped by India (being one of multiple donors) against the Taliban...military supplies and equipment were given by India to him.

Majority of Mujaheddin had ties in Pakistan since the tribal areas were their bases and all help was routed through Pakistan at the time of Afghan Jihad....even Masud was receiving most supplies through Peshawar via Rabbani.

My point is that both Masud and Taliban commanders were ex Mujaheddin so when people cry about past ties with Taliban and glorify the Northern Alliance then they should know that most of the Mujaheddin had ties with Pakistan (Taliban and NA including) so it is not some thing of a groundbreaking piece of investigation, had Massoud become like Taliban then Pakistan would still be blamed because it had past ties with him?
Should you be accountable for each and everything someone else does after you help him?
If that is the case then being part of Afghan Jihad USA should get the blame as well and if Northern alliance does some hanky panky then India should get the blame as well for being helpers....

I am afraid things are not that simple but when it comes to Pakistan...yellow journalism and extreme bias lead to similar grand conclusions about the oh so nasty ISI and Pakistan.

 

[Peshwa]

ISI seems the strongest agency in the world which seems to have a demonic hold on the very Afghan Taliban who should actually feel betrayed by Pakistan, the country which ISI protects and serves, first and foremost!
The media should give it a rest...try not to stink more than they already do...
Was it not Pakistan which succumbed to US pressure and gave access to foreign powers in waging a war in Afghanistan which has broken the Taliban hold on their (being Afghans) country?
Is not very absurd to assume any loyalty on part of Taliban with Pakistan and ISI, if the accusation that they were created by ISI is true?
On the other hand i would like to say once again till it sinks in that Taliban were not trained by ISI, ISI trained Mujahidden who split into many factions and one of them is the Taliban...if you want to blame ISI for training of Mujahidden then USA takes the stage as well and mind you even Ahmed Shah Masud (beloved of India) was being helped in some capacity by Pakistan and had close links with ISI as well during the Jihad...
Why turn a blind eye to these facts and talk about ISI alone?

The Taliban of Mullah Omar are mostly Pashtuns and are predominantly Afghans and they certainly do not take dictation from anyone...did they take dictation on the pleas of Pakistani Governments and all channels to give up Osama to US?
Even before that Saudi Arab demanded Osama from Taliban and Pakistan also backed this request of Saudis to try Osama in Saudia Arabia for actions against the kingdom but the same so called toadies of ISI denied this all....
These guys are tough nuts and they are not afraid to fight to death, so do not assume that all is what it is being made out by the media...why stop at ISI...why not blame USA for the Afghan unrest in post Soviet scenario?
Why not KGB for interfering in this region?
Why not RAW as well?
Read your history and Afghanistan was never a friend of Pakistan and it was not strategic buffer which people love to claim but a secure border manned by a friendly state which Pakistan tried to achieve by helping the Mujahideen and ever since those times it was Pakistan's policy to have cordial relations with Afghans, it was the afghans themselves who sided with Mullah Omar in his initial days since they were sick of the civil war and Omar promised unification and justice...read about how many days it took the Afghan Taliban to capture territory without the superior firepower the likes of US and Pakistan possess against the same kind of fighters which Pakistan and US are fighting so bloodily and only then this reality will dawn that at that time it was Afghans and not anybody else who supported the Taliban and due to this support Taliban were so successful in a land where conquerors are crushed since times ancient.
Whether most people realized that they had helped some undesirable people to grab power or whether they thought they were better off with Taliban than the warlords is not something we can say with surity...i think it was a bit of both and the society was segmented in these two factions, this led to polarization and more brutality which Taliban displayed especially the guest brigade of Osama bin Ladin which suppressed the Mazar e Sharif population with extreme prejudice...

I have been reading about and observing Afghan scenario since my childhood and let me make it point blank...There is a lot at stake for US, Russia, Iran, Pakistan and India both in Afghanistan and to pretend otherwise is to be devoid of logic and totally ignorant of the geo-strategic advantages at stake and the history of this troubled land.


No agency will ever control the Afghans, they are fiercely proud and independent, but they can and will always be manipulated due to their divisions and extreme nature...till they unify.

Regarding the so called dictation of ISI...then we have many prisoners from TTP (Tehrik e Taliban Pakistan) who claim that their leaders are being counseled by India...certainly the funding of TTP has a big question mark written all over it and being anti Pakistan...the notion to even think that they are also part of ISI grand scheme is 10 times worse than the accusation that 9/11 was a drama...far more Pakistanis have died at the hands of terrorists than Americans so i am afraid these documentaries are extremely biased most of the times and want to sell the cliche story of fiendish Muslim nation states and their diabolical Plans

Words are Wind..and if this so called documentary is that much short on its vision them i am afraid it is just another piece of trash thrown to malign ISI and nothing else.

Hi All Green,

Thanks for taking time to post the above. I very much do agree with you on a lot of your arguments.......

The points I agree on are:
1. The US and ISI whether directly or indirectly are responsible for creating the Taliban.....now yes the US should be the fire starter, but ISI and Pakistan were the fuel that continued to keep the flame alive in a bid to control Afghanistan use it as a proxy!!

2. I too am not surprised to see that the Taliban share some loyalty or trust in the ISI as the agency has helped them immensely through the past few decades.

3. I do blame CIA, KGB and ISI for fomenting trouble in Afghanistan.....I would say that the presence of KGB caused the civil unrest....and CIA and ISI provided the radical islamization through books, madrasas etc that lead to the creation of the Taliban......interestingly, the documentry mentions how books meant to radicalize Afghans to revolt against the Russians were printed at University of Nebraska and taught to madrasa going youth in ****** channeled by the ISI.

4. I agree that a lot of countries have a stake in Afganistan, but the degree of involvement matters......
In case of Pakistan, I feel that a radicalized, unorganized Talibani govt that rules through Sharia would be beneficial to Pak as this would guarantee dependency on Pakistan....almost like a "Akhand Pakistan" situation if you will......
India on the other hand wants to make inroads into Afghanistan through soft power means......It wouldnt make sense for India to support the Taliban as these were the same folks who allowed our hijacked airliner to land safely and bartered the exchange and safe passage to the hijackers.....
Furthermore, supporting the democratically elected government of Karzai is something thats not news to the world....but going as far as saying that India is supporting unrest in Afghnistan makes no sense whatsoever.....especially since India does not share a border with Afghanistan.....
Though I agree with you here......RAW definitely does have presence in Afghanistan and Pakistan....but which country and agency doesnt....I mean its their job.....

5. I disagree with you regarding the fact that "no one can control the Taliban".......at the end of the day, money is Allah....and trust me these pieces of turds will even sell their mothers for the money.
From what Ive seen and read, the Taliban use Shariat as a means to control the masses......under the guise of Shariat......they can justify their brutality....squash any voice against it.....and basically rule with an iron hand.....
You really need to see the part of the documentry where the journo wants a live video of a trial in Afghanistan and the Talibani's setup a
fake trial just so the western world thinks there is a judiciary system in Af.

The things I disagree about start with the fact that if Pakistan has proof of TTP being funded by India, why havent they revealed this already....I mean present these people to the world, create a case where the US, UN, NATO understand that India is fomenting trouble thats interfering or directly related to the WOT.
The fact that Pakistan has not done so means that there is no evidende or that Pakistan is playing the blame game to divert attention....and taking any action on Kashmiri militancy and the attackers of 26/11......

Now the question that I would like you to answer is:

In the name of strategic depth and foreign interest....if lets say the ISI is actually supporting the Taliban, is it acceptable to the Pakistani's?
You should see some of the videos of beheadings.....even butchers treat animals better than these sub-human pieces of ****......Now in light of this, dont you think that supporting the Taliban is as good as someone siding with the Nazi's during holocast (In light of the brutality)??? Do Pakistani's support this regime and if so, dont you think that what's happening in Pakistan as the moment is a direct result of Karma (What goes around comes around)?

Also...if true about the ISI support for Taliban, dont you think it is wrong to play double games being that your army is martyring its soldiers in the WOT, while the ISI is playing its own double game?
The question is does the army control the ISI?

I would really like to guage into a Pakistani perspective on this siuation....

 

[Peshwa]

Govt has assessed asset hold by Medsud,after his death was over 36 billion rupees. Just imagine. All 20 thousand boys were paid monthly salaries,very well trained. Best medical provided, imported medical equipment and blood from Singapore. Small mobile hospital with doctors.Best communication devices.
Is someone behind them ?....

Is this all money from the Opium trade you think?? Or do you think they're being funded by Wahabi's as well??
And this doesnt happen to be Mehsud's personal assets right?

 

[All-Green]

Hi All Green,

Thanks for taking time to post the above. I very much do agree with you on a lot of your arguments.......

The points I agree on are:
1. The US and ISI whether directly or indirectly are responsible for creating the Taliban.....now yes the US should be the fire starter, but ISI and Pakistan were the fuel that continued to keep the flame alive in a bid to control Afghanistan use it as a proxy!!

2. I too am not surprised to see that the Taliban share some loyalty or trust in the ISI as the agency has helped them immensely through the past few decades.

3. I do blame CIA, KGB and ISI for fomenting trouble in Afghanistan.....I would say that the presence of KGB caused the civil unrest....and CIA and ISI provided the radical islamization through books, madrasas etc that lead to the creation of the Taliban......interestingly, the documentry mentions how books meant to radicalize Afghans to revolt against the Russians were printed at University of Nebraska and taught to madrasa going youth in ****** channeled by the ISI.

4. I agree that a lot of countries have a stake in Afganistan, but the degree of involvement matters......
In case of Pakistan, I feel that a radicalized, unorganized Talibani govt that rules through Sharia would be beneficial to Pak as this would guarantee dependency on Pakistan....almost like a "Akhand Pakistan" situation if you will......
India on the other hand wants to make inroads into Afghanistan through soft power means......It wouldnt make sense for India to support the Taliban as these were the same folks who allowed our hijacked airliner to land safely and bartered the exchange and safe passage to the hijackers.....
Furthermore, supporting the democratically elected government of Karzai is something thats not news to the world....but going as far as saying that India is supporting unrest in Afghnistan makes no sense whatsoever.....especially since India does not share a border with Afghanistan.....
Though I agree with you here......RAW definitely does have presence in Afghanistan and Pakistan....but which country and agency doesnt....I mean its their job.....

5. I disagree with you regarding the fact that "no one can control the Taliban".......at the end of the day, money is Allah....and trust me these pieces of turds will even sell their mothers for the money.
From what Ive seen and read, the Taliban use Shariat as a means to control the masses......under the guise of Shariat......they can justify their brutality....squash any voice against it.....and basically rule with an iron hand.....
You really need to see the part of the documentry where the journo wants a live video of a trial in Afghanistan and the Talibani's setup a
fake trial just so the western world thinks there is a judiciary system in Af.

The things I disagree about start with the fact that if Pakistan has proof of TTP being funded by India, why havent they revealed this already....I mean present these people to the world, create a case where the US, UN, NATO understand that India is fomenting trouble thats interfering or directly related to the WOT.
The fact that Pakistan has not done so means that there is no evidende or that Pakistan is playing the blame game to divert attention....and taking any action on Kashmiri militancy and the attackers of 26/11......

Now the question that I would like you to answer is:

In the name of strategic depth and foreign interest....if lets say the ISI is actually supporting the Taliban, is it acceptable to the Pakistani's?
You should see some of the videos of beheadings.....even butchers treat animals better than these sub-human pieces of ****......Now in light of this, dont you think that supporting the Taliban is as good as someone siding with the Nazi's during holocast (In light of the brutality)??? Do Pakistani's support this regime and if so, dont you think that what's happening in Pakistan as the moment is a direct result of Karma (What goes around comes around)?

Also...if true about the ISI support for Taliban, dont you think it is wrong to play double games being that your army is martyring its soldiers in the WOT, while the ISI is playing its own double game?
The question is does the army control the ISI?

I would really like to guage into a Pakistani perspective on this siuation....

It is not only wrong it is insane to think that ISI which is purely military outfit (all are from armed forces) will be working against the Army...please understand this fact that ISI cannot work against Army and therefore ISI cannot dictate Taliban against Pakistan.
Will you agree that RAW staged Mumbai and that 9/11 was staged by CIA?
How can you expect me to believe that ISI supports current Taliban actions when more civilians and soldiers in Pakistan have been martyred at their hands than any other country.

Regarding my mention of Indian hand identified by TTP fighters, it was to drive in the same point that proof is needed and words are wind, they amount to nothing without proof.
Same applies to those people who accuse Pakistan and ISI, in current scenario...proof is not there and actually all evidence points that Pakistan is not liked by Taliban after the US invasion.
Regarding the funding of Taliban, Pakistan does not have that much money to spare as we ourselves are in survival mode...the aid channeled by US was used quite transparently so the funding riddle still stands...
If money controls the Taliban alone, then believe me Pakistan is the weakest country in terms of funding out of the lot of US, Russia, India and Iran.
What we can offer to Taliban is not that lucrative.
How come then we control Taliban?

Regarding Kashmir militancy, this is one thing which i feel you guys need to sincerely see and realize or else Pakistan will have no reason ever to enter into any peace with India...militancy in Kashmir has been an all time low since many years and Pakistan did put the brakes on its support and the results were even acknowledged by Indian Kashmiri leadership...despite this the fact remains that India still feels it is not good enough...if such steps are not good enough and all we shall ever get is the enmity then might as well earn it by acting in our advantage...afterall this is what all nations do since times ancient...the window for peace is limited and i think India should stop attaching conditions to the peace process...no one will be able to stop the odd terrorist activities 100% and Kashmir militancy will die out if there is peace between India and Pakistan and Kashmiris are given their fair share of the pie.

No body in his right frame of mind would like butchery and torture but it is a sad fact that media is selective about whom to investigate...the butchery and torture perpetrated by Russia in Chechnya was horrible as well, still no big hue and cry was raised by the media as a whole...some brave russian journalists did actually start raising an alarm and the most influential ones were kidnapped and killed in broad daylight by unknown people infront of onlookers!

Al Qaeda was the terrorist outfit but instead the focus was shifted onto Taliban and as a result Al Qaeda was given much more cannon fodder to use in its war...Taliban need to be separated from Al Qaeda...that is the only way to beat Al Qaeda without murdering Millions.
The same was what Pakistan suggested to do in post 9/11 scenario and for this it would have taken some time and patience for sure...but US wanted blood for blood soon and with the US invasion and all out attack on Taliban, things became different.
Military actions should be coupled with dialogues to make this happen.
the Taliban who sided with Omar were not Al Qaeda terrorists, many of them joined in a sincere bid to end the civil war and have nothing to do with Al Qaeda which is not an Afghan outfit but always has been an Arab outfit...ofcourse in being branded as one they shall combine forces but with the right approach they can be separated and only then will the real threat (Al Qaeda) be apprehended.

Taliban are portrayed to be the terrorists who practice a strict form of Islam...give me a break, either you follow Islam or you dont, there is no such strict form of Islam which is so different from the moderate Islam!
The butchery has nothing to do with Islam but the tag is given to each such action as a strict form of Islam...this is the Islamophobia...
Do i blame christianity for the Jewish holocaust... should i blame hinduism for the gujrat bloodshed, should i blame Judaism for the atrocities against Palestinians?
How easily the same is done against Islam...

This is the hypocricy of modern day media which likes to mix terrorism and Islam and in doing so is pushing Muslims into a corner...this is what Al Qaeda wanted in the first place and they must be feeling very good at the stupidity of the world in helping them realize their dream of a global conflict between Muslims and Non Muslims.
It is this Islamophobia which causes the media to demonize one while the other is given a free ticket...all are to be criticized and all are to be shunned...not just Taliban...

I 100% reject the Taliban actions and tactics because i am sick to see such acts of swift justice and revenge....this is not Islam and what the Taliban promised to the people and what they delivered was quite different and bloody.

Do keep one thing in mind though...In the 1990's, the conquest of Afghan war lords by Taliban was impossible without the support of the people...this is what needs to be understood...in those days, thanks to the brutal civil war, the people were indeed seduced by the righteous slogans and promises of Taliban and that is how the unprecedented rate of territorial capture by Taliban in a country full of highly trained, experienced and armed warlords can be explained...it cannot be the work of any agency to turn the tables so quickly since the same Afghanistan is a hell hole for CIA despite having much better resources, versatile all round expertise and many times more funding than the ISI...local support is key here and will always be the only guarantee of victory

Regarding the Indian hand in the unrest in Afghanistan, if India does not share a border with Afghanistan then all the more safe for India to stir unrest since it will not suffer directly and by geography Pakistan will bleed a lot...however i will not pin the blame on one country alone...
First and foremost it is the Afghans who have to unify if they want to end this constant cycle of misfortune...
I think it is not that one party can control all the Afghans but every country has some influence and can and will use it to its advantage...the unrest has always been there but is magnified now that all countries are supporting their sympathizers and no single party can be dominant in Afghanistan in the near future...
You and I can hate Taliban but we should also see that the only way to end the unrest was unification under a strong leadership and this is why initially the Afghans supported the Taliban...when given a choice between civil war and unification, many will chose unification and i do not blame them...it is this high state of desparation which needs to be eliminated from Afghanistan if it is to resume normalcy...as a consequence of this all forms of extremism will slowly melt down.

 

[Developereo]

^^^ I think you're confusing a "documentry" with a "movie".......

Its real life, with real people and real events...as reported worldwide...........there's hardly much that can be faked in a documentry......maybe if you watch it, you will realize that ......Why dont you take a look and come back and argue when you have a little more credibility!!!

I dont mean to be rude....but I want to have a serious discussion on this.....I am very disturbed/concerned after watching this!!!

A "documentary" can be just as deliberate propganda as a movie. A common tactic is deception-by-omission. In this case, they conveniently left out any reference to Indian involvement, because it is not part of the media narrative.

Once again, I would recommend that you consult more than one source, preferably from opposing points of view, before forming opinions or judgements.

 

[kidwaibhai]

let me tell you something. every thing afghanistan that happens is some how pakistans fault. this is what i have learned talking to afghans here. when you tell them that all the taliban are afghan they say that all of them are punjabi's trying to rule afghanistan.
i also saw the documentary and there was only one guy in a suit who kept saying that the ISI told the talibs to kill the journalist. the entire country is in denial that this is an afghan problem.
so lets not over emphasis what just one man said in the entire one and a half our documentary. afghan were more angry at their own government and NATO forces than they are of pakistan.

 

[Peshwa]

A "documentary" can be just as deliberate propganda as a movie. A common tactic is deception-by-omission. In this case, they conveniently left out any reference to Indian involvement, because it is not part of the media narrative.

Once again, I would recommend that you consult more than one source, preferably from opposing points of view, before forming opinions or judgements.

Agreed that a documentry can be doctored to provide a certain point of view....Would you be open to admitting that the claim of India brutalizing Kashmiri's through the "eyewitness accounts" is also part of the same propoganda technique?? If so then Im with you on this one......

but in this particular case, its a documentry produced by a US journo....who hardly has any stakes in glorifying India or omitting certain details....
If you see the doc, you will notice that he is pretty critical of US's involvement in the region.....

In addition, its a known fact that ISI supported the Taliban and India the NA that rules Afghanistan at the moment......
All Im asking is, dont you think there is a possibility of the ISI having links....and lets just hypothetically say that the ISI is involved in destabalizing the Afghan govt...if this turns out to be true.....
As a Pakistani.....what are your views on this??
Do you support such a move in the name of foreign policy and strategic depth??

Its an open question...

 

[Peshwa]

let me tell you something. every thing afghanistan that happens is some how pakistans fault. this is what i have learned talking to afghans here. when you tell them that all the taliban are afghan they say that all of them are punjabi's trying to rule afghanistan.
i also saw the documentary and there was only one guy in a suit who kept saying that the ISI told the talibs to kill the journalist. the entire country is in denial that this is an afghan problem.
so lets not over emphasis what just one man said in the entire one and a half our documentary. afghan were more angry at their own government and NATO forces than they are of pakistan.

Hi Kidwaibhai,

I do agree with you here......that everyone in the doc was blaming only Pakistan for the support to the Taliban and the unrest in the country....But looking at the attitude of the Foriegn minister Spanta towards the kidnapping.....I feel like the Afghans need to look inwards as well......This disregard for human life has become a common thing for the Afghans I feel....almost like they dont care for life/death anymore.....
However its human nature to point fingers at enemies for their misfortunes....just like us Indians and Pakistani's do as well.....

The man you mention is ex-Taliban turned fixer as mentioned in the doc...A neutral observer would see this as "coming straight from the horses mouth"....I wouldnt take it too seriously....but its definitely something to think about......I mean why would he say Pakistan out of all countries...leaving out the dreaded US and the NATO coalition forces etc......Can you help me understand?

 

[Developereo]

Agreed that a documentry can be doctored to provide a certain point of view....Would you be open to admitting that the claim of India brutalizing Kashmiri's through the "eyewitness accounts" is also part of the same propoganda technique?? If so then Im with you on this one......

but in this particular case, its a documentry produced by a US journo....who hardly has any stakes in glorifying India or omitting certain details....
If you see the doc, you will notice that he is pretty critical of US's involvement in the region.....

In addition, its a known fact that ISI supported the Taliban and India the NA that rules Afghanistan at the moment......
All Im asking is, dont you think there is a possibility of the ISI having links....and lets just hypothetically say that the ISI is involved in destabalizing the Afghan govt...if this turns out to be true.....
As a Pakistani.....what are your views on this??
Do you support such a move in the name of foreign policy and strategic depth??

Its an open question...

I totally agree that all governments engage in propaganda, including India and Pakistan. It diverts attention away from domestic problems.

There has been much talk, even in this forum, about Western media's war on Pakistan. As a nuclear-capable Muslim country, Pakistan has been in Israel's crosshairs for a long time, and the Western, especially American, media is 100% Zionist controlled. This is one of the many reasons, countering China being another, that the West is in love with India.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistans-war/31811-western-media-s-war-pakistan.html

I completely agree that Pakistan should engage the Afghans on a people-to-people level with humanitarian aid and cultural contacts. The Taliban have two aspects to them: fighting the NATO invaders, and the medieval Wahhabi ideology. Pakistan should give moral support for the former, and completely distance itself from the Wahhabi ideology. We should use our influence with the Taliban to wean them away from Wahhabism and towards moderate Islam.