Has the relationship between Air Force and Army improved?

[Flash_Ninja]

One criticism of Pakistans performance in 1965, 1971, and Kargil, was that there was a distinct lack of understanding and communication between the different branches of the military.From the Kargil War wiki:

"After the war, a few changes were made to the Pakistan armed forces. In recognition of the Northern Light Infantry's performance in the war, which even drew praise from a retired Indian Lt. General, the regiment was incorporated into the regular army.[76] The war showed that despite a tactically sound plan that had the element of surprise, little groundwork had been done to gauge the politico-diplomatic ramifications.[161] And like previous unsuccessful infiltrations attempts, such as Operation Gibraltar, which sparked the 1965 war, there was little co-ordination or information sharing among the branches of the Pakistani Armed Forces. One US Intelligence study is reported to have stated that Kargil was yet another example of Pakistan's (lack of) grand strategy, repeating the follies of the previous wars.[162] In 2013, General Musharraf's close collaborator and confidential subordinate Lieutenant General (retired) Shahid Aziz revealed to Pakistan's news televisions and electronic media, that "[Kargil] adventure' was India's intelligence failure and Pakistan's miscalculated move, the Kargil operation was known only to General Parvez Musharraf and four of his close collaborators".[163][164][165]"​

Of course, Pakistan Air Force is one of our greatest institutions in this country , but time and time again when conflict comes around they act very autonomously, instead of being part of a larger joint-defence structure with both the Army and the Navy. For things such as fire support, air defense, and airlifts, communication is critical.

I understand that with Zarb-E-Azb coordination with air strikes is improved, but I fear that whatever relationship that was created will just be limited to that operation and forgotten afterwards. I think that for the best advantage, we need to establish a much deeper command structure where both wings can efficiently coordinate with eachother.

Thoughts?

 

[Green Ranger]

The relationship always has some friction , but Air force it self has capability to counter any threat , in attack mode relationship matters a lot and air force can struggle , but in defense mode Air force self capability to counter enemy is important which we have .
And last 2 coas Kayani and Raheel Sharrif has built stronger relationship with air force , specially after controversial OBL farce

 

[cloud4000]

Didn't Gen. Sharif recently say that Operation Zarb-e-Azb was the first time that army, air force, and navy efficiently operated together?

 

[Alpha BeeTee]

Didn't Gen. Sharif recently say that Operation Zarb-e-Azb was the first time that army, air force, and navy efficiently operated together?

Navy ?

What the heck has navy got to do with Zarb e Azb or even NAP ?

 

[cloud4000]

Navy ?

What the heck has navy got to do with Zarb e Azb or even NAP ?

Apologies. I was writing from memory. May be Sharif was just talking about army and air force. I'm getting old.

 

[Qutb-ud-din Aybak]

it had improved during war on terror.

 

[Alpha BeeTee]

Apologies. I was writing from memory. May be Sharif was just talking about army and air force. I'm getting old.

Lol..no prob.

 

[Falcon26]

Didn't Gen. Sharif recently say that Operation Zarb-e-Azb was the first time that army, air force, and navy efficiently operated together?

Navy ?

What the heck has navy got to do with Zarb e Azb or even NAP ?

I believe some navy planes like the Orions were used for surveillance and according to certain reports, navy ssg were involved as well.

 

[shah1398]

Relationship and Coordination are two different things. PAF's mission is:

"To provide, in synergy with other services, the most efficient, assured and cost effective aerial Defence of Pakistan."

Previously this synergy was taken care of by sending ALOs (Air Liaison Officers) to different Core HQs and Navy, where they wud coordinate with PAF for aerial support during any exercise (still the same). Nonetheless CJCS was/is a binding factor is keeping all 3 sister services in cohesion. Kargil conflict saw total lack of coordination between PA and PAF. The major boost to Coordination between Pak Army and PAF started with Ops Rah-e-Rast in Swat, whereas PAF wud soften the targets for PA and that worked so much well that the PAF's support role was further extended in different areas. Today PA and PAF are hand in hand in almost every matter. This synergy was never seen before. I wud even boldly say that this level of coordination was even not seen in 1965-71 wars. Same is case of PAF and PN as in almost every exercise PAF has a good share and this synergy has got a big boost from induction of JF-17s in Number 2 Squadron plus with induction of ZDKs.

 

[dalchini]

One criticism of Pakistans performance in 1965, 1971, and Kargil, was that there was a distinct lack of understanding and communication between the different branches of the military.From the Kargil War wiki:

"After the war, a few changes were made to the Pakistan armed forces. In recognition of the Northern Light Infantry's performance in the war, which even drew praise from a retired Indian Lt. General, the regiment was incorporated into the regular army.[76] The war showed that despite a tactically sound plan that had the element of surprise, little groundwork had been done to gauge the politico-diplomatic ramifications.[161] And like previous unsuccessful infiltrations attempts, such as Operation Gibraltar, which sparked the 1965 war, there was little co-ordination or information sharing among the branches of the Pakistani Armed Forces. One US Intelligence study is reported to have stated that Kargil was yet another example of Pakistan's (lack of) grand strategy, repeating the follies of the previous wars.[162] In 2013, General Musharraf's close collaborator and confidential subordinate Lieutenant General (retired) Shahid Aziz revealed to Pakistan's news televisions and electronic media, that "[Kargil] adventure' was India's intelligence failure and Pakistan's miscalculated move, the Kargil operation was known only to General Parvez Musharraf and four of his close collaborators".[163][164][165]"​

Of course, Pakistan Air Force is one of our greatest institutions in this country , but time and time again when conflict comes around they act very autonomously, instead of being part of a larger joint-defence structure with both the Army and the Navy. For things such as fire support, air defense, and airlifts, communication is critical.

I understand that with Zarb-E-Azb coordination with air strikes is improved, but I fear that whatever relationship that was created will just be limited to that operation and forgotten afterwards. I think that for the best advantage, we need to establish a much deeper command structure where both wings can efficiently coordinate with eachother.

Thoughts?

Very much improved Army shows complete trust on air force and make sure PAF always involve and do operation alongside with army, just check all the operations against Talibans.

 

[Flash_Ninja]

Very much improved Army shows complete trust on air force and make sure PAF always involve and do operation alongside with army, just check all the operations against Talibans.

Thing I'm worried about is that relationship in conflict outside of militants (like with India), there should be something more permanent in place to ensure cooperation. I guess PAF know what they are doing, so hopefully no hurdles in future wars.

 

[araz]

One of the long term suggestions has been to have a joint command and staff college for senior commissioned officers of all 3 arms. This will build commaraderie as well as allow a sense of working in combined operations . However that does not appear to have happenened.
A

 

[Flash_Ninja]

One of the long term suggestions has been to havs a joint command and staff college for senior commissioned officers od all 3 arms. This will build commaraderie as well as allow a sense of working in combined operations . However that does not appear to have happenened.
A

In an conventional war scenario, if an officer on the ground puts in a request for air support, what happens? Does the Army put the call in to the air force, or do they use their own aviation corps?

Didn't Gen. Sharif recently say that Operation Zarb-e-Azb was the first time that army, air force, and navy efficiently operated together?

I'm not sure if it was him who said that, but the general consensus is that Zarb-E-Azb definitely brought the Air Force and Army into a closer relationship, the army would use their intelligence on the ground to coordinate air strikes and such. I was just wondering if that setup would be permanent or if it is temporary for fighting militants.

 

[Super Falcon]

The relationship always has some friction , but Air force it self has capability to counter any threat , in attack mode relationship matters a lot and air force can struggle , but in defense mode Air force self capability to counter enemy is important which we have .
And last 2 coas Kayani and Raheel Sharrif has built stronger relationship with air force , specially after controversial OBL farce

Probleum is they created joint chief of staff seat but airforce and nave never given a chance to lead the post

Future wars only be decided how good airforce and navy is land forces has 30 percent influence on war Pak army has to realize it has to create greater trust and communication and equal chance in budget and post of joint chief of staff

We listen everyday core commanders meeting happening only army commander sit their and discuss

There should be trilateral meeting every year and 15 day exercise mandatory between three pullers to enhance more communication



We must start NCC mandatory for all collage students

 

[New World]

Didn't Gen. Sharif recently say that Operation Zarb-e-Azb was the first time that army, air force, and navy efficiently operated together?

Navy ?

What the heck has navy got to do with Zarb e Azb or even NAP ?

PN has also played role in the Zarb e Azab, PN uses her Orion planes for surveillance in the northern Areas and PN has also caught and sabotaged the arm smuggling from the sea. and has put hawk eye on the separatist in Baluchistan.