Has KSA chosen a side?

[masterchief_mirza]

Not all of them are. They are irked when you tell the truth. They cannot control themselves. They accuse you of peddling agendas. You know why? Simply because our own personal interests are more sacred than Pakistan. It is nothing, but the cold truth.

What else do we need to know after such a malicious attack? First the medal for Modi. Now an attack on Kashmir. It is enough. I am not falling for it. I am going to spell out the truth and facts as I see them. Call me that I am wrong. Don't tag mods and cry. Come with facts. Prove me that I am wrong.

There's no doubt that the leadership of the GCC is down the pan completely, but again, why should we even be so bothered? Our future lies elsewhere. Let Arabs enjoy their future with the hindutva cowards, who slander their religion behind their backs but grin to their faces.

Pakistan has a plan to make Pakistan great again. You shall see soon enough. The sooner we decouple completely from the GCC, the better - here I completely agree with you.

 

[Blacklight]

WE can reach out to different countries to endorse [our] Kashmir-related cause in official capacity, but it must be understood that some will reciprocate and others will not. Therefore, Pakistani foreign policy should not be contingent upon this factor [alone].

Perhaps KSA have 'reservations' which should be understood and respected.

KSA have supported Pakistan in difficult times - every Pakistani should be mindful of this history to say the least.

My 2 cents.

This is a brainless KSA bashing threads for juveniles. Your objectivity is not appreciated.

Every silly non-related nonsense is on the table, but no one has a clue on how to milk them. The whole world is doing it, but here, kids and their superiority issues!

In the cut throat world we live in, our babus are just as clueless as these kids, but try telling this to either of them.

 

[Dalit]

Bro, let the clouds get cleared. Pakistan's and GCC's relationship is very deep and very old. There are ups and downs always when the relationship is deep enough.

It's not the time to imitate India and make foes all around us. We need all our friends on our side when the time comes.

The situation is extremely complicated in middle east. In the equation, we have Turkey, Syria, Iran, Qatar, KSA and UAE.. wars are going on in Libya where our friends are on the opposite sides fighting each other. Our situation is that we can't openly side with one party in any of the current conflicts.

You know, Turkey expects us to counter China on Uighyur issue, similarly, KSA wants us completely on its side when it comes to Qatar or Turkey.. it is complicated, believe me. Just wait.. and pray that all the Muslims unite all around the world in our lifetimes.

I am not saying that we create foes. We are on our own trajectory and the Saudis are on their own path. Every choice has a consequence. We must not be blind to every transgression. What the Saudis did here deserves full condemnation. Remember they can do much worse and they will. Why? Because they are in a pact with the US and Israel.

The Saudis have created their own little universe where they create camps. Must be condemned fully. At a time when the Islamic world must come together the Saudis have created a wedge due to religious and other differences. It is the bitter truth.

 

[Dalit]

This is a brainless KSA bashing threads for juveniles. Your objectivity is not appreciated.

Every silly non-related nonsense is on the table, but no one has a clue on how to milk them. The whole world is doing it, but here, kids and their superiority issues!

In the cut throat world we live in, our babus are just as clueless as these kids, but try telling this to either of them.

BS. You don't have any counter arguments. You know that the Saudis are behaving erratically. They have hurt Pakistan's Kashmir cause. You are failing to condemn wrongful Saudi policies. Plain and simple. Obviously you must have reasons to do so.

You can tell me to shut up, but the writing is on the wall.

 

[Jungibaaz]

@Jungibaaz Sir, did KSA call in the loan, as being propagated by the OP, or did GoP do a re-financing due to better rate availability?

Brother, I've heard both that they called in the loan and that we returned it ourselves, not sure at this point which is the case. Given some time, I'll learn what the actual story was soon enough. Apologies if this is not of use to anyone at this time. It came much to the surprise of analysts and even the folks at the IMF.

But I think it's important to note that it is we who were not satisfied with the status quo and decided to shake things up a bit. This might be indicative of some rethinking and signalling in policy. In 2018, the Saudis gave us these deposits when were in dire need, financially they had nothing to gain, it was our need. And any talk about getting better deals or refinancing is incorrect. This was likely a political decision by us, but it's also possible that they may have requested. In 2018, IK went straight to Riyadh after becoming PM, there we arranged Saudi financial assistance. Since then, we have asked the Saudis to assist in talking with Trump, I believe IK even took MBS' private jet to NY, as well as arranging talks with Trump and direct contact through Jared Kushner. Saudis not too long ago also offered USD20bn in investments including oil refineries.

Since then relations have soured, our leadership unilaterally took on the mantle of bridging Iran-Saudi relations. I know IK meant well in this, but it wasn't well received in Riyadh. Most notably our closeness to Turkey and Malaysia, and the whole Kuala Lumpur conference debacle was another major indicator. And since then it's clear that our government has become very frustrated with the OIC (and by extension with the Saudi government). Their refusal to side with us on Kashmir doesn't bode well for our effort to raise int'l awareness of this cause.

So I think this statement from SMQ was calculated and likely backed by our PM. The return of Saudi deposits, are a little unclearer. But neither did SMQ slip up, and neither did we return the funds because we had better options, we don't plainly. One thing I can say categorically is that there is no financial benefit, or restructuring. Saudis used their deposits to prop up ours forex reserves when it looked like we were on the brink of sinking. It wasn't out of their financial interests, but ours. In order to make up the 1bn difference in reserves, whatever funds we get will have to be sovereign debt as per IMF conditions as opposed to SBP reserves that Saudis gave us.

This latest outburst/comments by SMQ I do not believe were off the cuff. Certainly at the very least some signalling comes from further up. Whatever else he is, he is a smart man, and FO neither redacted the claim nor even refused to comment, they said something else entirely.

Also, I briefly gave my humble thoughts on SMQ's earlier statements:

I disagree. We get money from Saudis, even now their deposits in SBP have helped us keep our necks above water. Lip service like other allies of ours do is easy, I'm not naming any country in particular here. The Saudis help us and our bottom line every chance they get. I think we should consider the bigger picture a little more before knowingly offending an old ally like Saudi.

 

[PakSword]

I am not saying that we create foes. We are on our own way and Saudis on their own. Every choice has a consequence.

When you go to war, you need friends around you.. On our own, it's an extremely difficult task with the kind of people we have. Do you think Pakistan can survive alone having many traitors working against the interest of Pakistan?

When you go to war, you need supplies, money, diplomatic support and public support. GCC is the last region where we should lose our support.

I am telling you, ups and downs come in relationships.. Even in a family, two brothers sometimes fight but then they make up as well. Just wait, and don't insult long time friends.. I know that we have helped them in the past, but it has always been a two sided affair.. GCC also helped us in our times of need.

We don't know what kind of shit they are into currently.

 

[Blacklight]

BS. You don't have any counter arguments. You know that the Saudis are behaving erratically. They have hurt Pakistan's Kashmir cause. You are failing to condemn wrongful Saudi policies. Plain and simple. Obviously you must have reasons to do so.

You can tell me to shut up, but the writing is on the wall.

Raheel Shareef is on his way back, there are a lot of things happening, but you are as oblivious as one can get. Pls continue.

But before you rant more, Do answer me this, If we sour our relationship with KSA, the remittances we get in billions of US$, how do you plan on replacing that?

 

[Dalit]

Raheel Shareef is on his way back, there are a lot of things happening, but you are as oblivious as one can get. Pls continue.

But before you rant more, Do answer me this, If we sour our relationship with KSA, the remittances we get in billions of US$, how do you plan on replacing that?

You think I didn't know that? Of course Raheel Shareef is on his way back. The little Arab NATO gathering was doomed from the very beginning. Here comes a little more truth for you. I condemn Raheel Sharif's egoistic approach to leave Pakistan at a critical juncture. He made an egoistic choice to abandon Pakistan and leave on an Arab tour. That is entirely my personal opinion.

Those remittances are poison. Burn them. We will live without them. Pakistan is not a helpless nation. It has friends in its direct surrounding. Even if it didn't Cuba survived. A nation with guts and principles.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Time to call a spade a spade. When you observe something with your senses you must not deny the unevitable. It is happening and it is happening for a reason.

Like I said, KSA has chosen a side and so have we.

EXACTLY.

I'm just glad that Pakistan did not get sucked into the Yemen war.

 

[Blacklight]

Brother, I've heard both that they called in the loan and that we returned it ourselves, not sure at this point which is the case. Given some time, I'll learn what the actual story was soon enough. Apologies if this is not of use to anyone at this time. It came much to the surprise of analysts and even the folks at the IMF.

But I think it's important to note that it is we who were not satisfied with the status quo and decided to shake things up a bit. This might be indicative of some rethinking and signalling in policy. In 2018, the Saudis gave us these deposits when were in dire need, financially they had nothing to gain, it was our need. And any talk about getting better deals or refinancing is incorrect. This was likely a political decision by us, but it's also possible that they may have requested. In 2018, IK went straight to Riyadh after becoming PM, there we arranged Saudi financial assistance. Since then, we have asked the Saudis to assist in talking with Trump, I believe IK even took MBS' private jet to NY, as well as arranging talks with Trump and direct contact through Jared Kushner. Saudis not too long ago also offered USD20bn in investments including oil refineries.

Since then relations have soured, our leadership unilaterally took on the mantle of bridging Iran-Saudi relations. I know IK meant well in this, but it wasn't well received in Riyadh. Most notably our closeness to Turkey and Malaysia, and the whole Kuala Lumpur conference debacle was another major indicator. And since then it's clear that our government has become very frustrated with the OIC (and by extension with the Saudi government). Their refusal to side with us on Kashmir doesn't bode well for our effort to raise int'l awareness of this cause.

So I think this statement from SMQ was calculated and likely backed by our PM. The return of Saudi deposits, are a little unclearer. But neither did SMQ slip up, and neither did we return the funds because we had better options, we don't plainly. One thing I can say categorically is that there is no financial benefit, or restructuring. Saudis used their deposits to prop up ours forex reserves when it looked like we were on the brink of sinking. It wasn't out of their financial interests, but ours. In order to make up the 1bn difference in reserves, whatever funds we get will have to be sovereign debt as per IMF conditions as opposed to SBP reserves that Saudis gave us.

This latest outburst/comments by SMQ I do not believe were off the cuff. Certainly at the very least some signalling comes from further up. Whatever else he is, he is a smart man, and FO neither redacted the claim nor even refused to comment, they said something else entirely.

Also, I briefly gave my humble thoughts on SMQ's earlier statements:

Brother, all I will say before I exit this thread, is that Pindi is seriously upset with SMQ on the statement, and Raheel Shareef is on his way back. On the rest, could not agree with you more!

 

[Blacklight]

You think I didn't know that? Of course Raheel Shareef is on his way back. The little Arab NATO gathering was doomed from the very beginning. Here comes a little more truth for you. I condemn Raheel Sharif's egoistic approach to leave Pakistan at a critical juncture. He made an egoistic choice to abandon Pakistan and leave on an Arab tour. That is entirely my personal opinion.

Those remittances are poison. Burn them. We will live without them

In the real world, the Economy matters, whether you go red, blue, or yellow in the face.

I'm out of your childish nonsensical thread. Enjoy your 0.02 seconds of fame on the internet

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

You think I didn't know that? Of course Raheel Shareef is on his way back. The little Arab NATO gathering was doomed from thr beginning. Here comes a little more truth for you. I condemn Raheel Sharif's egoistic approach to leave Pakistan at a critical juncture. He made an egoistic choice to abandoned Pakistan. That is entirely my personal opinion.

Those remittances are poison. Burn them.

The remittances were going to dry up any way as the Saudis are now starting to get rid of foreigners and employing their own people. At least we have now have a head start in tackling that problem.

 

[PakSword]

You think I didn't know that? Of course Raheel Shareef is on his way back. The little Arab NATO gathering was doomed from the very beginning. Here comes a little more truth for you. I condemn Raheel Sharif's egoistic approach to leave Pakistan at a critical juncture. He made an egoistic choice to abandon Pakistan and leave on an Arab tour. That is entirely my personal opinion.

Those remittances are poison. Burn them. We will live without them

I know that you are very angry at the lack of support on Kashmir issue, but others also look at our support in Yemen, Libya, Syria etc.

 

[Dalit]

When you go to war, you need friends around you.. On our own, it's an extremely difficult task with the kind of people we have. Do you think Pakistan can survive alone having many traitors working against the interest of Pakistan?

When you go to war, you need supplies, money, diplomatic support and public support. GCC is the last region where we should lose our support.

I am telling you, ups and downs come in relationships.. Even in a family, two brothers sometimes fight but then they make up as well. Just wait, and don't insult long time friends.. I know that we have helped them in the past, but it has always been a two sided affair.. GCC also helped us in our times of need.

We don't know what kind of shit they are into currently.

They are in no shit and you know it too. Their minds are poisoned. They are making these choices willingly and consciously. Why? Their hearts and minds are corrupted. I am not going to appease wrongdoers. This is nothing short of treachery. Let them be. We are not going to be any part of it. Just like when we didn't join their slaughter in Yemen we are going to remain steadfast.

Pakistan should focus on Iran, Turkey, China and other friendly nations. These nations are in our direct vicinity and important to us. We won't die if Arab remittances or oil stops coming our way.

 

[Dalit]

I know that you are very angry at the lack of support on Kashmir issue, but others also look at our support in Yemen, Libya, Syria etc.

There is a day and night difference between Yemen and Kashmir. Yemen is not a territorial dispute. Yemen is a dispute based on ethnicity and creed. Kashmir is a territorial dispute where India is resorting to rape and human rights abuses. The Arabs are disingenuous to make a comparison.