Has greater US pressure on Pakistan yielded any results?

[maximuswarrior]

For decades American policy community has ardently argued for greater pressure against Pakistan. Pakistan has been accused by US policy makers for harbouring terrorists and even conspiring against US expansion in Afghanistan. Not to mention the accusation that the death of civilian, US/Afghan military personnel and destabilisation of Afghanistan can all be attributed to Pakistani "duplicity". After Trump's election win, these US policy makers believed they finally had the upper hand. Pakistan would be taught a tough lesson and not dare repeat its duplicitous ways. After all, even the Indians worshipped Trump to deliver on these promises against Pakistan. Trump was praised as the right man for the right job.

What coercion appliances did the Americans bring in their toolbox?

1. The complete and indefinite suspension of economic and military aid
2. The threat to permanently halt economic and military aid
3. Use FATF to blacklist Pak economy
4. US military strikes against Taliban and Haqqani elements inside Pakistani territories
5. Washington's threat to cut off non-NATO ally designation
6. Designate Pakistan as a state sponsor of terrorism
7. Encourage India to destabilise Pakistan through the porous Afghan border
8. Encourage terrorist groups such as PTM and BLA to challenge the writ of the state

It is fair to say that the Americans used every trick in the book to either appease or hurt Pakistan in the past few decades. The question posed in this topic is very critical and relevant today since Trump's presidency is also coming to an end.

Would it be an honest assessment that after two decades of failure in Afghanistan the US has also failed to fulfil its promise to coerce Pakistan into submission?

 

[PakFactor]

Pressure never works on Pakistan.

Only opposite results happen then!

We are Big Hearted Friendliest People on Earth... but no one should take panga with us. Thankyou!

Better be our friends and not our masters.

This is where I laugh at US Foreign Policy - do what you will, we have a country 7X as big and 1.2B+ people and we did not submit what made US think with their size 300M we will submit? We aren't like Hindu's who sell their Izat and dance like whores.

No amount of pressure will ever work - yes Musharaff was threatened, he was stupid in a lot of things -- but did he sell the country as a whole? No, he get out of US what he and country needed. And then threw US into the Afghan gutter where even the Russians still tell their kids what happened to them.

 

[maximuswarrior]

Pressure never works on Pakistan.

Only opposite results happen then!

We are Big Hearted Friendliest People on Earth... but no one should take panga with us. Thankyou!

Better be our friends and not our masters.

Let me up the ante here. US interests vis-à-vis Pakistan are well documented. Beyond the Afghan conflict the Americans have a burning desire to settle the following scores:

- Ensuring the denuclearisation of Pakistan.
- Forcing Pakistan to abandon its effective tactical nuclear stockpile. Remember these could fall into terrorists' hands.
- Balkanising Pakistan along ethnic and religious fault lines where the Americans step in and take control of strategically important territories.
- Transforming Pakistan into a submissive state that follows Indian orders.
- Enabling red hat wearing "reformists" to sow anarchy among the populace.

The Americans knew all along that Pakistan had other avenues to survive i.e. seek support from friendly allies. In other words, temporary escape routes. What the Americans seriously failed to estimate is the sudden long-term Chinese support i.e. CPEC and other bigger trade deals which put the US out of the equation. Such support severely hampers US ability to coerce Pakistan into full submission. Notwithstanding the already limited clout US has over Pakistan.

There is a reason why the US openly opposes CPEC. CPEC is a nightmare monster for the US. It spoils every US desire to bring Pakistan to account.

 

[PakFactor]

Let me up the ante here. US interests vis-à-vis Pakistan are well documented. Beyond the Afghan conflict the Americans have a burning desire to settle the following scores:

- Ensuring the denuclearisation of Pakistan.
- Forcing Pakistan to abandon its effective tactical nuclear stockpile. Remember these could fall into terrorists' hands.
- Balkanising Pakistan along ethnic and religious fault lines where the American step in and take control of strategically important territories.
- Transforming Pakistan into a submissive state that follows Indian orders.
- Enabling red hat wearing "reformists" to sow anarchy among the populace

The Americans knew all along that Pakistan had other avenues to survive i.e. seek support from friendly allies. What the Americans failed to estimate is longterm Chinese support i.e. CPEC and other trade deals. This severely happens US ability to coerce Pakistan into full submission.

Americans failed to calculate that China would rise as fast it did and challenges US supremacy but what they are also forgetting behind China is Russia which fueled Chinese military might.

Right now they realized Pakistan has fallen completely into the Chinese camp and US influence not just in Pakistan but else where is eroding.

The biggest factor I also believe is how Pakistan didn’t fall for the Yemeni conflict to counter Iran and use Pakistan as US wants to use Indian against China.

US doesn’t have as much push as it once did. Also not to forget social media etc played a role in showing US atrocities against Muslim countries — they tried pulling Pakistan away with this whole Uygher crap and see it’s not working at all, and. I Mullahs rose up as they wanted this to happen.

 

[maximuswarrior]

Americans failed to calculate that China would rise as fast it did and challenges US supremacy but what they are also forgetting behind China is Russia which fueled Chinese military might.

Right now they realized Pakistan has fallen completely into the Chinese camp and US influence not just in Pakistan but else where is eroding.

The biggest factor I also believe is how Pakistan didn’t fall for the Yemeni conflict to counter Iran and use Pakistan as US wants to use Indian against China.

US doesn’t have as much push as it once did. Also not to forget social media etc played a role in showing US atrocities against Muslim countries — they tried pulling Pakistan away with this whole Uygher crap and see it’s not working at all, and. I Mullahs rose up as they wanted this to happen.

The conclusive answer to the question posed in this thread is that the US has underestimated Pakistan from the beginning. It belittled Pakistan. It took Pakistan for granted. It insulted and ridiculed Pakistan. It abandoned Pakistan.

The Americans want to desperately make a comeback, but you know what they say about spilt milk.

America failed to pressure Pakistan into submission. America will continue to apply different methods to achieve its goals. If force and blackmail tactics don't yield the desired results, the Americans will resort to cheap charm offensives. It won't work. American treachery has fallen flat on its face.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Policies are made to fail at the end of the day!!! For it's mortal....

 

[V. Makarov]

USA has been disengaged from Pakistan for so long that Pakistan is now irreversibly inside China's camp. At this moment there cannot be financial blackmailing(due to Chinese help and better financial policy of PTI), no FATF blackmailing (due to China, Turkey and Malaysia help), No blackmailing with regard to Afghanistan. Pakistan still has immense control inside Afghanistan. After America is gone from there. Indians wont survive a day.

The only way USA can blackmail Pakistan is by , maybe, threatening nuclear attack. Other than that, there is no place left for USA in the Asian continent.

 

[Gangetic]

Their power is fleeting in Asia. They recently started talks with the Taliban again and want to save face badly.

 

[crankthatskunk]

Out of various steps taken by the USA, only two hurts Pakistan and potential to hurt her in the near future.

1- FATF - Grey list, and threat of Black list.
2- Efforts to declare Pakistan as state sponsoring terrorism.

No small thanks to the corrupt Butts, they in-cahoot with their Indian friends/Masters have brought Pakistan close to the point where USA could have achieved its objectives.

The elder Butt with crooked journalists declared that the Mumbai attack was carried out by Pakistanis.
He had close links with Modi- The killer.

Pakistan would be out of it soon, Inshallah.
Do not bow down to those who means harm to you.

Life respect only those who keep their respect.

 

[mudas777]

US at every avenue on the first opportunity took the easy way out and all along was only interested in its own interests while our elite had interests for their pockets lining. Eventually time came when our corrupt elite weren't able to deliver what US wanted it without loosing their lives and limbs hence the ridicule and belittling of Pakistan started.
Thanks to CPEC it brought Chinese investment in Pakistan and helped a lot in developing our infrastructure and hopefully in future will help in job creation. When they start selling weapons to India and gave role to India in Afghanistan, writing was on the wall for US interests but ignorance of possession of power blinded their thoughts. What their policy makers were thinking while their willingness to supply literally every thing to India and we were the one doing their dirty job to be denied of basic defence needs and our security requirements.
We don't want to make US our enemy but both countries are on the different paths and we are out of US circle of influence and its their loss not ours. For future Pakistan should keep trade, investments, educational and scientific links but nothing else.
Their pressure tactics, aid strings, issue of non NATO partner status, and so forth just back fired on them and still they left asking help from us in Afghanistan.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

The USA has started the downward journey from the position of being the sole super power - achieved courtesy of countries like Pak, Turkey, KSA etc. The most grueling fight is being fought at the home front, and it's outcome will decide the future course. Unfortunately, she's fast approaching a persist or perish moment as seen by all the super powers of their times in history. No mortals are exceptional unless for the Muttakin...

 

[cloud4000]

This is where I laugh at US Foreign Policy - do what you will, we have a country 7X as big and 1.2B+ people and we did not submit what made US think with their size 300M we will submit? We aren't like Hindu's who sell their Izat and dance like whores.

Pakistanis should be the last people talking about selling their "izat." They have done so in the past and are doing it now, including to the Americans.

USA has been disengaged from Pakistan for so long that Pakistan is now irreversibly inside China's camp. At this moment there cannot be financial blackmailing(due to Chinese help and better financial policy of PTI), no FATF blackmailing (due to China, Turkey and Malaysia help), No blackmailing with regard to Afghanistan. Pakistan still has immense control inside Afghanistan. After America is gone from there. Indians wont survive a day.

The only way USA can blackmail Pakistan is by , maybe, threatening nuclear attack. Other than that, there is no place left for USA in the Asian continent.

I agree with the first part, Pakistan is drifting away from US and into China's orbit. It's probably a good thing for all parties concerned. Geo-political realities dictate that.

China will support Pakistan all it can but only to the extent to protect its interests. China might have saved Pakistan from the blacklist but will it in February? Even China has its limits.

As for Pakistan controlling Afghanistan. No outside country can control that country. Pakistan may have an influence on the Taliban, but they don't control them. Afghanistan will always be a nuisance even with a friendly government in power.

 

[PakFactor]

Pakistanis should be the last people talking about selling their "izat." They have done so in the past and are doing it now, including to the Americans.



I agree with the first part, Pakistan is drifting away from US and into China's orbit. It's probably a good thing for all parties concerned. Geo-political realities dictate that.

China will support Pakistan all it can but only to the extent to protect its interests. China might have saved Pakistan from the blacklist but will it in February? Even China has its limits.

As for Pakistan controlling Afghanistan. No outside country can control that country. Pakistan may have an influence on the Taliban, but they don't control them. Afghanistan will always be a nuisance even with a friendly government in power.

I live in the US so don’t get me started with all the Hindus prostrating to the white man saying Yes Sir and Yes Ma’am. The cheap quality and nature of your people is another place you sell any Izat you have, even on a discounted item you niggas want a discount.


As for Afghanistan we can control it very well, and have done so last 70+ years and will continue to do so. At the end of the day it’s Pakistan helping US engage in peace talks to kick US out of and diminish influence — not India.

And most of all we don’t give a flying fucking about a FAFT list.

US at every avenue on the first opportunity took the easy way out and all along was only interested in its own interests while our elite had interests for their pockets lining. Eventually time came when our corrupt elite weren't able to deliver what US wanted it without loosing their lives and limbs hence the ridicule and belittling of Pakistan started.
Thanks to CPEC it brought Chinese investment in Pakistan and helped a lot in developing our infrastructure and hopefully in future will help in job creation. When they start selling weapons to India and gave role to India in Afghanistan, writing was on the wall for US interests but ignorance of possession of power blinded their thoughts. What their policy makers were thinking while their willingness to supply literally every thing to India and we were the one doing their dirty job to be denied of basic defence needs and our security requirements.
We don't want to make US our enemy but both countries are on the different paths and we are out of US circle of influence and its their loss not ours. For future Pakistan should keep trade, investments, educational and scientific links but nothing else.
Their pressure tactics, aid strings, issue of non NATO partner status, and so forth just back fired on them and still they left asking help from us in Afghanistan.

Had it not been for Pakistan USSR would still be around we threw everything at the USSR to bring them down — I haven’t seen any German thanking the US cause Americans never engaged and only pussy footed around. But as you said you can only play your strings so long before their worn out and broken.

 

[Chakar The Great]

US has realized the importance of Pakistan. The relations are mending already. India played the dirty game as always by massive anti Pakistan lobbing, however completely failed. Pakistan US relations are back on the right track. I hope that relations between the two improve. Pakistan is no threat to US and vice versa.

What history tells is that Pakistan never compromises on national interest. Worse is over for Pakistan.

 

[Pakistan Ka Beta]

Thanks to ALLAH ( GOD ) for help and guidance after 1971 and especially after September , 2001 . We ( Pak -US) have dealt with each other from more than 72 years n we know each other . They (US) should have learnt it long ago .