@Gomig-21
Dumb purchase because no standarts in the Navy, it's a soup of weapon systems all over the world.
Chinese/Soviet and German subs
French, German and US frigates
French, Korean and Spanish corvettes
German, US, Chinese, Russian/Soviet, UK fast attack crafts
So what? Who says anything about the notion that you must operate ONE KIND and only ONE KIND of naval ship from only ONE SOURCE and if that source cuts you off, then you'll still be ok, right? THAT is the PRIMARY situation that the Egyptian military is facing, along with the fact that certain weapons from that one original source are limited and will not be sold to Egypt.
Let's clarify some of the items you mentioned because there are some non-truths in there as well as some incorrect information.
There are only 4 Romeo Submarines and 4 German Type-209 submarines of which the Romeos will eventually retire for more German submarines. Not sure where you got the Chinese from, but there aren't any Chinese subs unless you're referring to the Romeos? Those are Russian from my understanding. EDIT: Actually, the Romeos are Chinese-built copies of the Russian subs but those are the only ones besides the new German Type 209. So only 2 types, not 3.
The plan was to purchase all French frigates from the start since the French Aquitaine FREMM is one of the best frigates in the world. Along with the TOT on the 4 Gowinds that I believe 3 were built in Alexandria under that contract. But when we went back to the French to purchase more (same with the Rafales but I'll get to that in a minute), they were very difficult with the financing and wouldn't agree to anything that would work for the Egyptian Navy. So what now? What would the great Turkish Navy do IF they were in the same position? Just give up? Not go to another source? Well, that's not what we do and since we had ordered the 4 Type 209s Submarines from the Germans, they came to us with an AMAZING OFFER to buy 6 Mekos. Everyone has Mekos, practically everyone from you, to the Algerians to many others and it's not like they're difficult ships to integrate into your navy and with other types. You talk about this aspect as if it's the end all be all!? Not even close. There are so many systems to create interoperability (which I will get to later also) that all these purchases actually work well.
So we were still looking to expand the frigates with FREMMs because the EN actually loves that frigate and like I said, it's one of the best in the world for both, ASW and APW. So the phone rings from the Italians proposing to sell the EN 2 of its latest and most powerful FREMMs in the Berghamini class which incidentally, are built in cooperation with the French FREMMs and are essentially the same product except the Italian FREMMS will come with much more than what the French offered, including a MILITARY SATELLITE for the ships!!! That is a HUGE element which helps combine ALL the navy into one network! You see, these are the things you fellas either ignore, or leave out or just genuinely don't know. Before that, the EN didn't have that capability but now it has which helps integrate the entire fleet of naval assets. Please, keep that in mind as that takes out much of the burden of the different ships working together.
The Italian deal also comes with 20 OPVs which are the smaller version corvettes to add to the navy. Nothing wrong with that at all. Any navy that needs to add this capability to its fleet like we do wouldn't hesitate to do it in 1 minute.
These will work perfectly well with the 4 Gowinds and not have any problem whatsoever. Most of the engineering and construction and capabilities of these vettes are right along side with the French and European ones in general because much of the ammunition is centralized in the Aster or MICA or Sea Sparrows and with the torpedoes etc. The comms & GPS are totally dependent on the satellite system and that is being taken care of with this same deal which the Italians will provide (at least 1) Military Satellite for surveillance and radar imaging. This part of the deal is still being worked on as well as the Eurofirghter Typhoon which I will also get into a bit later.
Sorry this is long, but it's essential for those who don't know what is going on and the critical details to understand that it's not just a mishmash of crap put together. All of it is based on the availability of whom is and isn't willing to supply certain weapons and systems and then sound decision making and planning based on the interoperability of all those systems. The only other choice is to NOT DO ANYTHING and that's not the going trend anymore. The French took out the SAT COMMs from the FREMM frigate they sold us because it was already programmed for NATO and only NATO, and so they were obligate to do so. And even though Italy is part of NATO, the comms will be figured for Egypt and the specific satellites they will provide which will then be integrated into the entire Egyptian Naval fleet. This is sound planning, not mish-mashing. The French also took out the Aster 30 (the longer range missiles) and only left the Aster 15 while the Italians are supplying BOTH in their 2 Berghaminni FREMMs, the Aster 15 as well as the Aster 30. How could anyone refuse that? Good deal!
Same with Air Force and Army.
If you have M1 Abrams why buying Russian T-90, such purchases make no sense maintenance or logistic wise.
And i have no problem at all just stated some facts.
Ok, fine. So the Air Force, what happened after the first order of 24 Rafales? Do you know? We had an option for 12 more and we went to exercise that option and guess what? Exactly what happened with the Frech FREMM and Gowinds also happened with the additional 12 Rafales in that the French AND Egypt couldn't work out a financial deal that was satisfactory for both sides. Mainly France actually made it a bit difficult for Egypt to accept anything since I think the entire deal was actually refused by France, IIRC.
@Vergennes , please correct me if I'm wrong.
So, essentially we can't buy any more Rafales unless we pay full price for them upfront or something to that effect. The problem with that type of deal is it handcuffs you and it's very similar to what the US was doing with Egypt - "you take this or that and it's a done deal, like it or not." Well, that stuff doesn't fly with Egypt anymore and that's what got us into the mess we were in in the first place and we're trying to change that. Nothing wrong with that.
So if we can't buy anymore Rafales, what are we supposed to do? Take more F-16s without AIM-120s? And hear about it on this forum every hour? loooool. I don't think so.
Besides, we've been operating Russian aircraft since the MiG-15 came out, the MiG-17, 19, 21 and 23. We needed to retire the fleet of 21s and F-7s and what better aircraft to do that with than the MiG-35? With that, we also acquired the R-73 HOBS with the HMCS and the venerable R-77 AMRAAM as well as the dangerous R-27 AMRAAM. Now we're expanding that with the Su-35 which will give the EAF.
EAF MiG-35 with 4 R-77 AMRAAMs on its pylons. All 46 MiGs can fire this missile as well as the R-73 short range HOBS and R-27 AMRAAM.
You know what the US offered us instead of the Su-35? More of the F-16 or the F-15 but we don't know if they included the AIM-120 and 9X with those to make it worth it. It sounds like they didn't because the EAF refused them. I would've jumped on the F-15 but only if the AMRAAM restriction was lifted and like I said, it doesn't sound like they did so we went Russian!!! The Russians are supplying all the BVR missiles along with several of the other potent cruise missiles and A2G munitions. Essentially it comes down to really not having much of a choice because of the availability of what is out there and who is willing to sell us the latest and greatest as well as how well it will be incorporated into the fleet, which brings us to the possibility of the Eurofighter Typhoon.
As far as the Typhoon, there are several reasons for that and 1 is that it will add to the Rafales because of the similarities and essentially the same weapons and will force the deal for the Meteor missile. That part is huge and if Italy can guarantee the Meteor with the Typhoon, then since we can't buy anymore Rafales for now and those operate under LINK 16 with all the F-16s and many of the ships as well as the most important aspect such as the 8 E-2C AEWC aircraft, it will be a perfect addition. This is something many don't know or see. We might also see the deadly IRIS-T A2A missile with that aircraft. But for now, the Meteor (being the best AMRAAM to date and for a while) is the more important factor.
So we either go back to the status quo, or move on with better equipment and integrate them with the existing ones to the best of our capabilities and that is what's being done to modernize our military. People who don't know all these details I just mentioned and don't make an effort to understand what is going on, stay ignorant about the Egyptian military and its capabilities as well as the interoperability of all its weapons systems.
I hope this post actually opens many of the detractors' eyes around here and they understand a bit better what is going on and see the entire picture instead of just a black & white scenario and that's it.
