pakistani342
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Karzai is on a roll it seems -- in his latest interview with La Monde he accuses the United States of behaving like an enemy -- huh ???
As a corollary Pakistanis shouldn't feel too bad ... if the US is accused of being the enemy of the Afghans after spending billions upon billions -- I guess Pakistanis (by Afghan logic) deserve to be blamed for all of Afghanistan's ill.
Below are some of the more juicier excerpts from Karzai's interview with La Monde which can be read here.
......................
My position has not changed for the past 8 years : the war on terror can't be fought and must not be fought in Afghan villages, in Afghan homes. If there is a war on terror, it has to be taken to the terrorist sanctuaries, where they are trained and nurtured.
You recently met James Dobbins, the American special representative for Afghanistan and Pakistan, on December 5th in Kabul. What was the substance of his message on this agreement ?
I had a long conversation with Mr Dobbins, whom I've known for ten years. He said that without the BSA, there will be no peace.
His remarks can be interpreted in several ways. In a positive way: once you sign the BSA, there will be peace. If they can reassure us, provide the trust we need, this is a good thing. You can also interpret his comments in a different way : “ If you don't sign the BSA, we will cause you trouble and provoke disturbances in the country”.
...
What role do you expect the US to play in the peace process ?
... When I was in Washington one year ago to negotiate the terms of a peace process with the US, I realised the Americans were speaking on behalf of the Taliban.
...
At the loya jirga, the Afghan people told the USA : we want a good relationship with you, but you must change your behaviour, you need to behave in a way that doesn't harm or weaken Afghanistan. We have given you assurances of our friendship, you must now behave like an ally, not like an adversary.
Do you believe the USA sometimes behaves like an adversary ?
Attacking Afghan homes is an act of aggression. Launching a psychological war on Afghan people is an act of aggression.
What do you mean by a psychological war ?
A psychological war is a war against our economy, a war that encourages companies to leave Afghanistan, that encourages money to leave Afghanistan, that frightens Afghan's of the consequences of an American departure, is all this not psychological war ?
Do you think this is the outcome of deliberate American propaganda ?
Absolutely, this is the outcome of American state propaganda. Without a doubt. If I were not sure of all these things, I would not have been so adamant in my demands.
In some statements, you have compared the Taliban with the Americans as if they were both your enemies. And such statements have shocked many people in the USA given the number of American soldiers that have been killed in Afghanistan and the amount of financial assistance the USA has provided to your country.
I didn't say that. I'm grateful, the Afghan people are grateful, for the assistance that has been given to Afghanistan. And we would like to repeat our gratitude. But when and where the USA has behaved against our interests - and in spite of our repeated warnings -, it's my job to speak out, to tell the truth.
When the Taliban murder Afghan people, I condemn them. At the same time, I call them “brothers” because they are Afghans and I want them to come back to their homes and make peace with the country. To the Americans, I have said : you are here to fight extremism, or terrorism.
Why should the Afghan people pay the price of a war on terrorism ? Why would you attack an Afghan home, in the pursuit of a so-called taleb, of which there are many thousands in Afghanistan, and bring death and suffering to children and women? Would the USA launch drone attacks against homes in America in pursuit of a killer, a terrorist ? No. Why should the Americans do it in Afghanistan ? Do they feel an Afghan life is worth less than an American life ? I expect the USA to have an equal respect for an Afghan child as for an American child. We are not less worthy.
Some American officials have warned that if the BSA is not signed before the end of this year, there will be no BSA at all. And that means no American military presence beyond 2014. That would have huge security and financial consequences for Afghanistan. Do you think these warnings are serious or are they just a bluff ?
Even if they are real, even it's not a bluff, we are not to be pressured into signing the BSA without our conditions being met. Even if they are serious, the Americans can't push us into a corner. If the USA wants to be our ally, they have to be a respectful ally. They can't exploit us. What I hear these days, and what I've heard before, sounds like classic colonial exploitation. The Afghan's don't bow down, they have defeated in the past colonial powers. They'll accept a respectful relationship, they are an honourable people and will treat friends honourably.
Do you think the USA is behaving like a colonial power?
Absolutely. They threaten us by saying “We will no longer pay your salaries, we will drive you into a civil war”. These are threats. If you want to be our partner, we must be friends. Respect Afghan homes, don't kill their children and be a partner. So bluff or no bluff, we want respect for our commitment to the safety of Afghan lives and to peace in Afghanistan.
So you don't believe there would be dire consequences if the BSA is not signed ?
We will not cease to be a nation if that were to happen. It will be harsher for us, it will be more difficult, but we will continue to live our lives, we will continue to be a nation and a state. If the USA is here, if Nato is here, with us, with their resources, hopefully properly spent and not wasted, or looted, if our homes are respected, if peace is maintained, the American presence is good for Afghanistan, and we value it. But if their presence comes at the price of destroying Afghan homes, at the price of the security and the dignity of Afghans, if their presence here means continued war, and bombs and killings, then it's not worth it.
...
You often suspect the USA or people in the West of trying to divide Afghanistan. Could you be more explicit?
I was approached by some countries and also by people acting on behalf of the Taliban, who told me that if the Taliban were given a place in Afghanistan, if they were allowed to officially settle there and run their administrations, that would then lead to a peace process. I saw that as a dangerous path to the creation of two states within one country.
I called some Taliban personalities, active in the movement, as well as those who have connexions to them, in order to enquire about this proposal. They said: “Yes, they were also approached and offered places in Afghanistan”. But they refused this offer. And I saw that the movement that lead to the opening of a Taliban office in Doha was related to that process. And the way it was announced proved our point. The manner in which certain other activities were conducted in the name of the peace process also indicated that certain forces in the West didn't want talks between the High Peace Council (HPC) and the Taliban but talks between the Taliban and other ethnic groups in Afghanistan.
They tried to ethnicize the conflict in arranged talks between warlords and ethnic groups. This has been proved. But this initiative failed because the Afghan people reacted strongly. Whatever the plan was, we know that the West, through some foundations and with the help of certain members of the US Congress, tried to force federalism in Afghanistan. We are convinced that a deliberate effort was made to weaken Afghanistan and to turn it into fiefdoms. To have a weak central government. And the reason why the Americans and some European countries tried to undermine the presidential elections in 2009 was also to have a weakened government with less legitimacy.
As a corollary Pakistanis shouldn't feel too bad ... if the US is accused of being the enemy of the Afghans after spending billions upon billions -- I guess Pakistanis (by Afghan logic) deserve to be blamed for all of Afghanistan's ill.
Below are some of the more juicier excerpts from Karzai's interview with La Monde which can be read here.
......................
My position has not changed for the past 8 years : the war on terror can't be fought and must not be fought in Afghan villages, in Afghan homes. If there is a war on terror, it has to be taken to the terrorist sanctuaries, where they are trained and nurtured.
You recently met James Dobbins, the American special representative for Afghanistan and Pakistan, on December 5th in Kabul. What was the substance of his message on this agreement ?
I had a long conversation with Mr Dobbins, whom I've known for ten years. He said that without the BSA, there will be no peace.
His remarks can be interpreted in several ways. In a positive way: once you sign the BSA, there will be peace. If they can reassure us, provide the trust we need, this is a good thing. You can also interpret his comments in a different way : “ If you don't sign the BSA, we will cause you trouble and provoke disturbances in the country”.
...
What role do you expect the US to play in the peace process ?
... When I was in Washington one year ago to negotiate the terms of a peace process with the US, I realised the Americans were speaking on behalf of the Taliban.
...
At the loya jirga, the Afghan people told the USA : we want a good relationship with you, but you must change your behaviour, you need to behave in a way that doesn't harm or weaken Afghanistan. We have given you assurances of our friendship, you must now behave like an ally, not like an adversary.
Do you believe the USA sometimes behaves like an adversary ?
Attacking Afghan homes is an act of aggression. Launching a psychological war on Afghan people is an act of aggression.
What do you mean by a psychological war ?
A psychological war is a war against our economy, a war that encourages companies to leave Afghanistan, that encourages money to leave Afghanistan, that frightens Afghan's of the consequences of an American departure, is all this not psychological war ?
Do you think this is the outcome of deliberate American propaganda ?
Absolutely, this is the outcome of American state propaganda. Without a doubt. If I were not sure of all these things, I would not have been so adamant in my demands.
In some statements, you have compared the Taliban with the Americans as if they were both your enemies. And such statements have shocked many people in the USA given the number of American soldiers that have been killed in Afghanistan and the amount of financial assistance the USA has provided to your country.
I didn't say that. I'm grateful, the Afghan people are grateful, for the assistance that has been given to Afghanistan. And we would like to repeat our gratitude. But when and where the USA has behaved against our interests - and in spite of our repeated warnings -, it's my job to speak out, to tell the truth.
When the Taliban murder Afghan people, I condemn them. At the same time, I call them “brothers” because they are Afghans and I want them to come back to their homes and make peace with the country. To the Americans, I have said : you are here to fight extremism, or terrorism.
Why should the Afghan people pay the price of a war on terrorism ? Why would you attack an Afghan home, in the pursuit of a so-called taleb, of which there are many thousands in Afghanistan, and bring death and suffering to children and women? Would the USA launch drone attacks against homes in America in pursuit of a killer, a terrorist ? No. Why should the Americans do it in Afghanistan ? Do they feel an Afghan life is worth less than an American life ? I expect the USA to have an equal respect for an Afghan child as for an American child. We are not less worthy.
Some American officials have warned that if the BSA is not signed before the end of this year, there will be no BSA at all. And that means no American military presence beyond 2014. That would have huge security and financial consequences for Afghanistan. Do you think these warnings are serious or are they just a bluff ?
Even if they are real, even it's not a bluff, we are not to be pressured into signing the BSA without our conditions being met. Even if they are serious, the Americans can't push us into a corner. If the USA wants to be our ally, they have to be a respectful ally. They can't exploit us. What I hear these days, and what I've heard before, sounds like classic colonial exploitation. The Afghan's don't bow down, they have defeated in the past colonial powers. They'll accept a respectful relationship, they are an honourable people and will treat friends honourably.
Do you think the USA is behaving like a colonial power?
Absolutely. They threaten us by saying “We will no longer pay your salaries, we will drive you into a civil war”. These are threats. If you want to be our partner, we must be friends. Respect Afghan homes, don't kill their children and be a partner. So bluff or no bluff, we want respect for our commitment to the safety of Afghan lives and to peace in Afghanistan.
So you don't believe there would be dire consequences if the BSA is not signed ?
We will not cease to be a nation if that were to happen. It will be harsher for us, it will be more difficult, but we will continue to live our lives, we will continue to be a nation and a state. If the USA is here, if Nato is here, with us, with their resources, hopefully properly spent and not wasted, or looted, if our homes are respected, if peace is maintained, the American presence is good for Afghanistan, and we value it. But if their presence comes at the price of destroying Afghan homes, at the price of the security and the dignity of Afghans, if their presence here means continued war, and bombs and killings, then it's not worth it.
...
You often suspect the USA or people in the West of trying to divide Afghanistan. Could you be more explicit?
I was approached by some countries and also by people acting on behalf of the Taliban, who told me that if the Taliban were given a place in Afghanistan, if they were allowed to officially settle there and run their administrations, that would then lead to a peace process. I saw that as a dangerous path to the creation of two states within one country.
I called some Taliban personalities, active in the movement, as well as those who have connexions to them, in order to enquire about this proposal. They said: “Yes, they were also approached and offered places in Afghanistan”. But they refused this offer. And I saw that the movement that lead to the opening of a Taliban office in Doha was related to that process. And the way it was announced proved our point. The manner in which certain other activities were conducted in the name of the peace process also indicated that certain forces in the West didn't want talks between the High Peace Council (HPC) and the Taliban but talks between the Taliban and other ethnic groups in Afghanistan.
They tried to ethnicize the conflict in arranged talks between warlords and ethnic groups. This has been proved. But this initiative failed because the Afghan people reacted strongly. Whatever the plan was, we know that the West, through some foundations and with the help of certain members of the US Congress, tried to force federalism in Afghanistan. We are convinced that a deliberate effort was made to weaken Afghanistan and to turn it into fiefdoms. To have a weak central government. And the reason why the Americans and some European countries tried to undermine the presidential elections in 2009 was also to have a weakened government with less legitimacy.
