Hameed Gul on Wagah blast.

[RazPaK]

Crying? Present me with arguments, not your beliefs about the commander of the faithful and his supporting cast members or ad hominems. The nation's in mourning because of this man and his past actions! The same Jihadis which he once trained, have now gone haywire, just as they once went during his tenure as ISI chief, after the Soviet withdrawal, after which the Mujahids fought each other for wealth and power in Afghan, the reason for Peshawar accords which were a failure. Taliban terrorists were fine in Afghanistan, they aren't so fine in Pakistan are they? How come is aJihad in Afghanistan good, but bad when done in Pakistan? Afghan Taliban recently did condemn the "shahadat" of Hakeemullah Mehsud when he was sent to hell, in a drone attack on 1 Nov-2013, it should make their loyalties more than clear to their supporters. All Moulvi-Mullahs-Qari-Muftis who were once trained under his orders, are now wrecking havoc in the country. All the Tajiks-Chechens-Afghans-Arabs-Afghans are here too, he really thinks he can fool the nation by speaking the regular Jihadi twisted content of America/India/Israel involvement when the TTP has taken responsibility yesterday?

P.S Ironically, more and more Pakistanis are convinced that the commander of the faithful's past policies and actions are responsible for current events, just open the T.V. and watch a debate on these topics today. Not everybody agree with same Zia administration propaganda of Soviets trying to reach warm waters, when he was busy extracting economic benefits from the same enemy, they were fighting under the guise of religion. You should remember that time for PTV exclusivity is long gone, there is one version of truth accepted as divine by the public today.

I will take a wise enemy over these foolish friends anyday. Secular or Liberals or Hindus aren't blowing, its the hyper-religious segment, one known as God's viceroy and religious psycopaths that consider its holy duty to set itself off, everywhere it gets a chance.

I appreciate that you took 10 minutes to write this self-contrived argument, but please provide evidence of Gul's wrong doings.

Have the Haqqanis or Gulbuddin Hekmatayar ever targeted Pakistan? Militant groups have links with eachother sure, but so do Intel agencies.

@Abu Zolfiqar

Your input would be appreciated.

 

[Ragnar]

can anyone please summarise this video in brief?

 

[pkuser2k12]

Mr. Gul is a pissant and a hardcore Talibitches supporter. He has done more harm to Pakistan than India did in all the wars together.

janab aap stalin kay statue ki poja kar raha hotay agar Hameed Gul aur Baki generals na support kartay ......

ankeen band karney say sab theek nae ho jata

India,Iran aur Afghanistan kay nechay b lag k dakh lia roshan kyal Mushy aur *ussy politician Nawaz aur Zardari nay jawab mil gaya na boarder par,Baluchistan mayn,Karachi mayn aur Fazal ullah aur farriris ki surat mayn

Yuri Bezmenov ex kgb official ka interview dakh lo kesay kgb nay help kia East Pakistan ko tornay mayn yehi unhon nay west mayn karnay tha (instead red shits got buried)

Yuri Bezmenov and East Pakistan

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Yuri Bezmenov: Deception Was My Job (Complete Interview)

worth watching

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[Abu Zolfiqar]

Mr. Gul is a pissant and a hardcore Talibitches supporter. He has done more harm to Pakistan than India did in all the wars together.

on this i disagree with you....i think overall he's a patriot. A bit outspoken at times, and not all of his views i could agree with. At least there's no lying in him, and on a BROADER level he keeps nation's interest at heart

my own opinion though

he served in the military - so i have my biases

 

[ni8mare]

You took my post literally when I said 'agents'.
Ofcourse they take no funding from us, their actions are beyond our control.
However, you need to realize that the days of physically fighting Pakistan are over. With nuclear weapons, Indian ability to act against Pakistan conventionally is vastly reduced.

However, where one door closes, two doors open. An open mind is all that is required.
Pakistan is buying into the Islamist ideology hook, line and sinker. They are (over a period of time) falling for the Arab sunni variant. Why not think of it as an opportunity than a threat?


Yes, things will go downhill but we will never quite be able to go to a full scale war on account of nuclear weapons.

Now the days of successfully being able to run a geography & ethnicity based insurgency is over. It just does not work. As a State, Pakistan has enough resources to crush it(just like India crushed the many other foreign funded insurgencies). So why not support 'something' that the entire Nation of Pakistan willingly buys and creates problems for itself.

Every single time there is a border skirmish, the idea of the 'evil Indians' takes deeper root in Pakistanis, the more they run towards these Hamid Guls and their Islamist leaders in these times for the feeling of safety and familiarity, the more they feel the answer to their problems is 'real Islam'. And invariably, the inspiration for real Islam will come from 'Islamists'.

That means, when they are blaming India, they are not finding the root cause of the ills of their society and their military. That means they will not improve, not change. The society will continue its fall downwards.

If we stop firing and there is relative peace, Pakistanis - like @Secur , @Hyperion and many others will glean the truth and try to change their society. This bodes badly for us.

IIRC, an American general said that he fears a Chinese general who knows his troops are ill trained for a real war far more than he fears the Chinese generals who believe they are good and will charge at them.

The same philosophy is applicable here. As long as we continue to give them the 'big bad Indians/Hindus/Jews/Martians', they will continue happily in a constantly deteriorating stasis. If we don't, there is a possibility of change. And their current direction suits us just fine.

-------------------------------------------
How is that for a counter-current analysis/thought @Bang Galore and @SarthakGanguly @Secur ?

exactly .......its true with more evil india attitude shown by us it will only make the hand strong of the islamist of pak>>>>> which is good for india in long run

 

[Secur]

I appreciate that you took 10 minutes to write this self-contrived argument, but please provide evidence of Gul's wrong doings.

Have the Haqqanis or Gulbuddin Hekmatayar ever targeted Pakistan? Militant groups have links with eachother sure, but so do Intel agencies.

@Abu Zolfiqar

Your input would be appreciated.

I would have appreciated if you had choose to answer a single point, raised in both posts. But hey why answer, when the supreme belief of infallibility of the Commander of the Faithful suffices? So its fine for Good Taliban - the Afghan Taliban to condemn the death of TTP chief- a person who has been our worst enemy?

Answer me any one of these. Have the remnants of the Afghan Jihad not targeted Pakistan, after 2001? Have the fighters or Mujahids that served in the Afghan Jihad, not returned to fight alongside TTP and other banned organizations? Have the foreign militants, settled in Pakistan, during the 80's, not become a problem? Is the Jihadi infrastructure, not become a threat to national security? Has the ideology brought to fight the Afghan war and subsequent indoctrination of Pakistans with it, not resulted in extremism and terrorism, in the country? Who brought the Afghans with drugs and guns and allowed them to roam freely across the country?

 

[Kaniska]

The blunt truth, as long as people like Hamid Gul, Zaid Hamid, Hafiz Saeed and the assorted Mullah's hold sway and popular support in Pakistan, India does not need to worry about Pakistan at all.

They are the biggest assets to India than anything else. They will ensure that Pakistani society heads in a single direction. A direction that suits India just fine.

Spot on...These Islamist and hard core India haters are biggest asset for India to destabilize Pakistan...These people are so self destructive that Pakistan do not understand how these fascist element destyoyed a generation of yound mind in war and all sort of -ve things since 1980 and still they are propagating simillar agenda.

 

[AugenBlick]

@levina and I agree with him completely

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

The blunt truth, as long as people like Hamid Gul, Zaid Hamid, Hafiz Saeed and the assorted Mullah's hold sway and popular support in Pakistan, India does not need to worry about Pakistan at all.

They are the biggest assets to India than anything else. They will ensure that Pakistani society heads in a single direction. A direction that suits India just fine.

#1 is a former army officer who now lives a retired life and is not in charge of policy-making.......you give him a lot of credit

#2 is a tv anchor......obviously rabidly anti-indian, but so be it. Not in charge of policy-making......again, you give him a lot of credit. Ironically -indians have made him a celebrity. In Pakistan, some people havent even heard of him

#3 - a religious figure who heads an Islamic charity.....not in charge of policy-making....yet again, you give him a lot of credit

none of these people have anything to do with "directions" as NONE of them are in charge or policy-making


what you call "blunt truth" is really just "a diatribe of hogwash"

 

[Prometheus]

In which place this blast occurred, any map?

near my city ........but other side of border

 

[Judge]

#1 is a former army officer who now lives a retired life and is not in charge of policy-making.......you give him a lot of credit

#2 is a tv anchor......obviously rabidly anti-indian, but so be it. Not in charge of policy-making......again, you give him a lot of credit. Ironically -indians have made him a celebrity. In Pakistan, some people havent even heard of him

#3 - a religious figure who heads an Islamic charity.....not in charge of policy-making....yet again, you give him a lot of credit

none of these people have anything to do with "directions" as NONE of them are in charge or policy-making

what you call "blunt truth" is really just "a diatribe of hogwash"

Why fight on the recipe when the dish tastes just fine for both of us?
You think nothing wrong with them and I agree with you - they suit India just fine as well.

 

[Secur]

chacha g aap stalin kay statue ki poja kar raha hotay agar Hameed Gul aur Baki generals na support kartay ......

Of course, thats how the Zia administration convinced the naive Pakistanis, while taking econimic help from them in the eighties!

Ladies and Gentlemen, a big round of applause to the power of propaganda. Big cheers to creation of imaginary threats and enemies to further american interests in the region and for taking U.S. Aid! Under the guise of religion, even absurdly absurd things are more than acceptable to most people.

 

[Prometheus]

such kinda talk shows or proggrames , in Pakistan or in India or any where in the world ,that in any way distribute hate against any one should be labelled "For mature persons only" and should be telecasted after 11 pm ....................need to protect fragile mind of teenagers from hate other wise they will radicalised

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

I appreciate that you took 10 minutes to write this self-contrived argument, but please provide evidence of Gul's wrong doings.

Have the Haqqanis or Gulbuddin Hekmatayar ever targeted Pakistan? Militant groups have links with eachother sure, but so do Intel agencies.

@Abu Zolfiqar

Your input would be appreciated.

Hekmatyar we worked with closely in the 80s....he has his loyalists, but when the Islamic Emirate (the govt. the Afghan taleban/mujahideen formed) and Hezb e Islami formed differences, they went their own way. Surely we have a means to make contacts with him. I dont think he's receptive of Pakistan's role in war against terrorism but no he never attacked Pakistani state.

As for Haqqanis - theyre just a bunch of people on both sides of Durrand Line, like the others. They were one of many people we provided support to during the anti-soviet jihad in afghanistan. A source of friction between Islamabad and DC, but no - they never attacked Pakistan as far as i know. Some rogue elements within perhaps, who knows - but priority lies on groups that wage war against the Pakistani state. When most people here were not even born or breathing, or they were still shitting in their diapers -elders of the Haqqani were sitting in the Oval Office and being showered with adulation by Ronald Reagan admin.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Why fight on the recipe when the dish tastes just fine for both of us?
You think nothing wrong with them and I agree with you - they suit India just fine as well.

Nothing at all is wrong with them. They are not national security threats and have no ill-design against our nation, nor have they broken any laws. They may not be YOUR ideals, but that doesnt figure into our priorities how you feel about them