Hameed Gul on Wagah blast.

[Abu Zolfiqar]

They also didn't leave because they had lost militarily. Soviet Union was on the verge of decline, would never have crossed to the other side of the Khyber Pass.

its arguable....but it goes beyond that as well

the soviet puppet regime was extremely hostile to us...something had to be done about them, which is what happened

 

[Secur]

@Secur ... ! First of all. ..Things that have done cannot be UNDONE
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Its a Will of God ---- Ants take Elephant down......
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Right now ...we're analysing situation in a very Positive Mindset....Bcoz we're IMPREGNABLE to any Challenge
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But in 1979 when USSR invaded Afg, we already have lost war with India and at the same time USSR appraoched in our neighbour country with no reason ...except only to satisfy their EGO .......As we use to hear ...Soviets want access to Warm Waters....which means once they get themselves stabilize in Afghanistan they will encroach us....MOREOVER....soviets have high profile Badges on their profile which surely made them ARROGANT ...after winning WW2

a) engulf Germans 1945
b) Occupied 27 states on its way
c) Strong prevailing Notion of Superiority among soviets like....once RED BEAR approached any LAND ...they wont retreat back
d) Winning Streak since 1917 Balchovik Revolution.....(No single Loss or Retreat) ....Plz consider it bhai...

Instead of acting like Vessel state- we decided to resist Soviet Occupation on our own then later WEST joined us (in 86) and benefited us in following way

a) International Cash Flow
b) Modernization of Weapons & Int. Treaties
c) Strengthening of Military
d) ISI emerged as a Nightmare for our Enemies
e) US overlooked our Atomic Programme ....

Respectfully ! I acknowledge your point of view, we do have Mistakes in our account but those Mistakes are to be analyzed in Post-Withdrawal Scenario when we get our Hands burnt by mismanaging those JIHADI GROUP & losing trust of Northern Alliance by favoring other Group

Moreover, put a cushion for International Conspiracy against us......Right Now ! i've following Questions in my Mind

Question 1: Why America put us in the middle of Desert after fulfilling their GOALS ....???
(Likely-Answer):::: If Amercians are not Loyal to their FATHER/MOTHER.....they throw them in OLD HOUSES.... then how stupid i assumed favouring me????

Question 2: What is the reason behind International Sanctions of 90's .....?? Trust Deficit or Else?? .....In 80's they need us...they joined then kicked us out..........911 they need us...they joined again...? ODD Policy....aceepted by Hilary Clinton it was mistake from our side

Question 3: USA is pouring Trillions in Afghanistan to eliminate militancy ...why they wont feel that Pain in 90s in Afghanistan.....why they wont invest in Schools / Roads / Institution / Estb of Stable Gov
In the end of Amercian Movie "Charlie Wilson War"......Charlie insist Gov Officials to go for invest in Afghanistan....dont leave it alone

Question 4: Jihadi Group served the purpose of America.....without sacrificing one US soldier......they successfuly evaded all necessary costs in the war....like building trust among US supportive Jihadi Groups by helping them out in........Monthly Salary / Pension Plan ....Medical Care ..??? In other words....they left them doing their nasty business of killing each other to earn their livings

Of course not, the die is cast. However, one can always derive lessons from history and common sense dictates that you should. The Soviet Union had other reasons for its downfall and later dissolution, the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan wasn't exactly one of them, though it burdened the already fragile economy and exacerbated the problems. Moscow by then, had been using almost 25% of its GNP on the military buildup to counter the United States, the massive spending despite granting the Reds a temporary advantage, resulted in a severe strain on their economy. The pullout from Kabul is just one of the factors and it isn't even a main one. Meanwhile, political problems and disputes ensured that Moscow would soon lose hold over its republics. Maybe, its time to rectify the false official version and the popular belief of "We broke the USSR into dozens of pieces" because the Reds were on fast decline, even before they thought of entering Afghanistan.

I agree with you that analyzing it now, we are privileged to much more information than the planners sitting in Islamabad, at that time would have been to. However, it still doesn't excuse them from misleading the nation and indoctrinating the whole society to support the war. The Zia administration it appears, was more than happy to accept the economic assistance from a country, it made known to its countrymen, as its enemy. It also happens that access to warm waters, was a dead concept by then. Moscow had access to the Turkish Strait and the world had come a long way in the eighties, since the warm ports were worth fighting for. Third and the most important, Pakistan was no military pushover, it wasn't possible for the Red Army to quell a nation this size. That meant that Soviet adventure for its communist friends of Kabul, even if successful, was no threat to the sovereignity and integrity of Pakistan. Fourth, Moscow was reluctant to help its friends at Kabul because they were aware that the uprising is local, the Kremlin was very reluctant to send its troops, even at the height of the Herat Crisis. You can understand from the Soviet mindset back then, that they weren't planning to come to Gwadar, as the myth goes. The Soviet Reluctancy and the " myth " of the Warm Waters? Now, even if participating in Afghan war was necessary, a limited engagement restricting training to Afghans only in this country, should have been considered. By that means, you still would have ensured the continued American assistance, diplomatic support and turning a blind eye to the nuclear program. What sense does it make, to indoctrinate your own countrymen with the ideology of extremism and import more Jihadis from the world over, all under the guise of religion? What sense does it make, to allow millions of Afghans unrestricted access to all parts of Pakistan, flooding the streets with weapons and drug? What sense does it make, to create monsters that would later, go out of your control? What sense does it make, to make this country, the battle zone, not just for that time but for decades to come? What sense does it make, to build the whole Jihadi infrastructure and get into bed with Mullahs? Do you think that planners displayed any wisdom and foresight in making the decision to join this war? You are wrong on the part about all problems starting only from Post withdrawal scenario, the worst mistake we ever made in the history of this country, was indoctrinating the nation with the ideology of radicalization and extremism, which is paying dividends to us for long now. This particular mess will take time perhaps decades to clear up, the mismanagement of Jihadi groups and creation of new ones to counter the existing, are nothing when compared to the ideological blunder. As for that, after seeing the former Mujahideen groups fighting amongst each other, continuing the civil war and the failure of the Peshawar accords in bringing peace to Afghanistan we should have parted our ways slowly over time. But again history tells us, that even if we had made a mistake, we persisted in making many more over it.

The primary problem that has plagued Pakistan's progress since its independence is its foreign policy, we simply cant let go of emotions even whilst deciding something that important. Karachi and later Islamabad never ever learnt to keep themselves neutral and extract benefits from both parties. Ever since the independence, we chose the American camp and despite continued betrayals throughout our history, never learnt our lesson. The reason or the one given for the sanctions in the 90's was the sudden American realization that Islamabad is building a nuclear bomb.

You ask why did the Americans left? They left because their work in the region was done, why should they have spent a single more dollar on a hell-hole? They will do it again whenever its completed again. Thats how the International politics work, there is no conspiracy theory involved if you are looking for one. Instead of questioning the U.S. Govt that why did they withdraw the assistance from Afghanistan, why dont you ask your own Govt the reason it didn't foresee knowing the history of relations with Americans that it might happen in the future also? Why should I blame them when its my own countrymen that never learn from history?

 

[Secur]

its arguable....but it goes beyond that as well

the soviet puppet regime was extremely hostile to us...something had to be done about them, which is what happened

The stagnation of the Soviet Union economy and the deep seated structural problems, present in it, leave no doubt. Yes it was and it created problem for us, the only issue there is that those problems were so easy to handle that most of the time, we didn't even need to involve our military for it, the tribals always did a fine job.