What's new

HAL's Light Utility Copter Programme Invites Foreign Engine Bids

Veer

FULL MEMBER
Joined
Dec 30, 2009
Messages
463
Reaction score
0
HAL's Light Utility Copter Programme Invites Foreign Engine Bids

Friday, February 12, 2010

HAL's Light Utility Copter Programme Invites Foreign Engine Bids
Remember the Light Utility Helicopter (LUH) that HAL is developing to meet a partial requirement of 187 helicopters by the Indian armed forces? HAL has now floated a tender inviting bids from "reputed TurboShaft Engine Manufacturers world over who would like to offer their engine along with associated instrumentation for integration on Light Utility Helicopter (LUH)." HAL reveals that during the production phase of the LUH (2013-14), 210 engines will be procured in phases. For starters, they want two flight-cleared engines delivered for testing and prototype flights by December 2011.

Ok, now for some engine specs. HAL is looking for a turboshaft with dual channel FADEC, with an independent backup fuel-control system in the event the FADEC packs up. The engine must allow time from start-up to take-off of 5-minutes or less. The dry weight of the engine, FADEC, backup controls and accessories must not exceed 200-kg, and it must be fully tropicalised to operate in the temperature range of -35°C to 50°C and a service ceiling of 7000m.

And obviously, since HAL can't pull it off alone, "HAL is also interested in entering into a long term business agreement with willing partners to take-up license manufacturing of engine or its parts at its facilities aimed to jointly meet the engine requirement on a global basis on mutual benefit terms. Consent for further exploration of transfer of technology for license manufacturing is to be indicated with sufficient details."

It must be remembered Chinese are using "foreign" European engine in their attack Helicopter.
 
.
HAL's Light Utility Copter Programme Invites Foreign Engine Bids

Friday, February 12, 2010

HAL's Light Utility Copter Programme Invites Foreign Engine Bids
Remember the Light Utility Helicopter (LUH) that HAL is developing to meet a partial requirement of 187 helicopters by the Indian armed forces? HAL has now floated a tender inviting bids from "reputed TurboShaft Engine Manufacturers world over who would like to offer their engine along with associated instrumentation for integration on Light Utility Helicopter (LUH)." HAL reveals that during the production phase of the LUH (2013-14), 210 engines will be procured in phases. For starters, they want two flight-cleared engines delivered for testing and prototype flights by December 2011.

Ok, now for some engine specs. HAL is looking for a turboshaft with dual channel FADEC, with an independent backup fuel-control system in the event the FADEC packs up. The engine must allow time from start-up to take-off of 5-minutes or less. The dry weight of the engine, FADEC, backup controls and accessories must not exceed 200-kg, and it must be fully tropicalised to operate in the temperature range of -35°C to 50°C and a service ceiling of 7000m.

And obviously, since HAL can't pull it off alone, "HAL is also interested in entering into a long term business agreement with willing partners to take-up license manufacturing of engine or its parts at its facilities aimed to jointly meet the engine requirement on a global basis on mutual benefit terms. Consent for further exploration of transfer of technology for license manufacturing is to be indicated with sufficient details."

It must be remembered Chinese are using "foreign" European engine in their attack Helicopter.

Nothing surprising, HAL did the same with the Dhruv and its Shakti engine too (jv with Turbomeca).
 
.
Nothing surprising, HAL did the same with the Dhruv and its Shakti engine too (jv with Turbomeca).

I know it but added this line so that Chinese don't jump to troll about indigenous manufacturing China V/s India. Dekha hum kitne smart hain.
 
.
@ veer lolz man..welcome back

@sancho any problem about this engine yaar?i mean reports that there were some problem in this engine in high attitude..
 
.
@ veer lolz man..welcome back

@sancho any problem about this engine yaar?i mean reports that there were some problem in this engine in high attitude..

Thanks buddy.

SPECIAL: Dhruv Shakti In Siachen

By Group Captain Hari Nair
Flight Ops (Rotory), HAL

It is the raison d’être for the Advanced Light Helicopter (Dhruv) with Shakti engines, and the very mention of the mission starts the adrenaline rush in a helicopter pilot.

Picture the stark landscape of the Siachen Glacier comprising just three colours: the Brown of the craggy mountains with peaks so sharp that they resemble fangs, the almost alien dark Blue of the high-altitude sky, and the dazzling White of the perennial ice cover. Then throw in a stupefying mix of high-air temperature and rarified atmosphere, add a postage stamp-sized helipad situated between deep ice crevasses at a geographical elevation of 5,940m (19,480 ft). The mission is to land on that postage-stamp helipad at a temperature of ISA+20 (-5°C), hover the helicopter Out of Ground Effect (OGE) with 200 kg of load and fuel for one hour of flying plus 20 minutes of reserve.

To add a further bit of spice as if all this were not enough, there are also tactical considerations in the approach and getaway due to extreme proximity of the helipad to a very ‘friendly’ neighbour on the west. Simply impossible you say? Well you were right — up to now that is. Demonstration of the mission was well beyond the performance envelope of most helicopters and in fact it was one of the reasons for development of the Lama (Cheetah) helicopter from the Alouette-III (Chetak) in the 1970s.

Although the Cheetah manages some payload in the hot summer months,it is unable to meet the above mission requirement. Also, its payload drops significantly in ISA+20 conditions at that altitude. The mentioned mission requirements appear beguilingly simple — however at those stated conditions, everything (aerodynamics, engine performance, control margins, handling and stability) tapers off to a point, usually well short of the target for most helicopters.

It is not just about additional power from powerful engines. There are helicopters that can fly at the required altitude. However, they invariably are at the limits of control margins, stability and handling due to their conventional hinged rotors, and therefore are practically not suited for such missions in the harsh flying environment which is invariably accompanied by extreme turbulence. Also, the technical trick is to translate the additional power available from the more powerful (but invariably heavier) engines into rotor thrust and still have a useful margin of payload. Usually, at that altitude, the power required by conventional rotor systems to hover with useful payload and fuel rapidly outstrips the power available from most turbine engines.

So, it is that sort of a target that would make most helicopter designers and test pilots frown, shake their heads and mutter darkly under their breath —“elusively out-of-reach and quite simply impossible”. However, the ALH was designed to stringent manoeuverability requirements specified by the IAF and Indian Army. Some of its capabilities are routinely demonstrated by the Sarang Display Team. In fact when various combinations of manoeuvres were initially tried out by this scribe as a former team-member to define the display manoeuvre sequences, there were always generous margins available on all controls.

The ALH’s highly manoeuverable rigid rotor system has some beneficial spin-offs at high altitude — good control power, good control margins and easier handling for pilots. The typical high-altitude sluggish handling and inertia in other helicopters is absent in the ALH. The controls remain crisp, with adequate control margins and good stability. The only compensation on approach to a helipad is to cater for the higher True Air Speed (TAS) and reduce the IAS appropriately at an earlier point.

On 11 Aug 2009, at 0750 hrs, the shrill whine of two escorting Cheetah helicopters mixed with the deeper roar of the ALH’s Shakti engines broke the morning silence on the glacier as the ALH-Shakti made an approach to the helipad.

The observed temperature was between -1°C and0° C (ISA+22) and Wg Cdr (Retd) Unni Pillai (Chief Test Pilot (RW), HAL) was at the controls with Lt Col T. Srinivas. The two experimental test pilots wereintensely focused on the difficult approach, which under the best of conditions usually approaches near white-out condition.

This was the beginning of the culmination of years of hard work by the dedicated team of designers, who had toiled hard to achieve the ‘impossible corner point’. They had strived to achieve the near-perfect mix of carefree handling of the ALH’s rigid rotor system with abundance of power from the Shakti engines at extreme altitudes. While ‘Srini’ called out the approach and reserve power parameters, Unni manipulated the controls and brought in the ALH to a hover over the tiny helipad.

On the approach, the ALH hadan equivalent mission payload of175 kg on-board. Unni brought in the ALH to a low hover, pulled up into a hover OGE, while Srini checked the power and other margins. After the sit-down, personnel from the post loaded upthe helicopter with an additional 160 kg and the crew pulled up the ALH to hover OGE above 12m (35 ft) on radio altimeter.

The hover was a tricky exercise — too low and they would be ‘in Ground Effect’ which would affect the accuracy of the test, and if too high, the crew would lose sight of the tiny helipad under the helicopter’s nose and would enter white-out. The crew observed the power margins and carried out a second sit-down. Another 80 kg was added and the ALH was hovered OGE for the third time. The power margin was adequate and so the crew carried out another sit-down and added a further 240 kg. The ALH was picked up for the fourth hover OGE. At that point, after catering for fuel burn during the successive hovers, the ALH had an equivalent of 619 kg of mission payload on-board, with fuel for one hour plus 20 minutes of reserve.

It was best summarised by the marshaller at the post who gave the thumbs-up to Unni and Srini, walked up to them after the last hover andy elled to them above the noise of the engines and rotors: “Jhahaz mein bahut dum hain (the craft has plenty of power)!” The ALH-Shakti had gone well beyond the mission requirement of 200 kg of load and had beaten the dreaded ‘corner point’.

It was an elated team of designers lead by Ms Rama Bhat who received thehelicopter back at Leh. The Chief Aerodynamist Mr Girish who had been into serious number-crunching into the late hours, notwithstanding the rarified atmosphere of Leh was especially happy since the performance had been as predicted. The team had also been supported very well on-site by representatives of the certification and inspection authorities. Team ALH-Shakti had proved true the ALH slogan — Any Mission, AnyPlace, Any Time.

(Gp Capt Nair flies for HAL's Rotory Wing Flight Ops team. He was commissioned in the helicopter stream of the IAF in December 1983. He has been associated with the Dhruv (ALH) programme, and commanded a combined Chetak-Cheetah unit in the Western Sector. He formed and commanded the Sarang Helicopter Display Team comprising Dhruv helicopters, during 2003-2005. He served as Chief Operations Officer, in an IAF base in the North-East)

Photos and Text ©HAL

LiveFist - The Best of Indian Defence: SPECIAL: Dhruv Shakti In Siachen
 
.
The technical competence of DRDO is illustrated that they are again running to buy a new engine from snecma for LCH for a new tamasha lasting five years, thanks to our honest and farthinking politicians and babus who will not not make a single rupee, they are only interested in offbeat things like$$$ and euros. Enjoy for the next five years by being the laughing stock of the world ala kaveri. india the superpower of corruption:angry:
 
Last edited:
. .
I know it but added this line so that Chinese don't jump to troll about indigenous manufacturing China V/s India.
:) preventive, not a bad idea!

@sancho any problem about this engine yaar?i mean reports that there were some problem in this engine in high attitude..
I think Veer answerd your question already, but imo exaclty because the Shakti engine turned out to be a good choice for India and the the good experience with Europeans in Dhruv development, there can't be another choice than the Eurocopter Fennec besides the LUH! I really can't understand why we cannceled and re-issued the competition, after the Fennec already won. This again in an unnecessary delay in the replacement of old arms and of course of the LUH development too.
 
.
This engine for LUH is a tamasha to hide the fact that we have a underpowered engine in LCH.
 
.
This engine for LUH is a tamasha to hide the fact that we have a underpowered engine in LCH.

Do you know any thing about the two different engines ? or you just want to post for name sake
 
.
Patience is a virtue, wait. Indigenization takes time and there is no shame in it.It is the best path to follow. Being a Tamasha of the world for DRDO's tall claims is demoralizing for indians and should not be done
 
. .
I frankly dont have an answer but the LCH flight has been delayed many times.According to open source information it is overweight but other golmaal is also possible and when all gimmicks have failed they have brought out the LUH engine to bring turbomecca in which the indians could easily have made themselves since it is an underpowered version of shakti itself. That is why I am apprehensive.
 
.
why not we use the same eninge shakti or TM 333-2B2 in LUH
Maybe too much power, for that size? Don't forget the LUH might have only half of the empty weight of Dhruv and if the specs from wiki are correct, Shakti engine offers 1200 shp, the engine of Eurocopter Fennec instead only 847 shp.
I frankly dont have an answer but the LCH flight has been delayed many times.According to open source information it is overweight but other golmaal is also possible and when all gimmicks have failed they have brought out the LUH engine to bring turbomecca in which the indians could easily have made themselves since it is an underpowered version of shakti itself. That is why I am apprehensive.
Mate, LUH and LCH has nothing to do wit each other!
LCH is a derivate of the Dhruv and will have the same Shakti engine, the same avionics and weapons, but will be designed as combat helicopter.
The new engine bid for LUH needed, to get as much as commonality between HAL's new Light Observation Helicopter and the winner of the LUH competition!
Also if you read the article in the first post, you will understand that they want a new engine that also offers new techs, which means just reducing the power of Shakti engine is not a solution.
 
.

Pakistan Defence Latest Posts

Country Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom