HAL Tejas | Updates, News & Discussions

[MehrotraPrince]

b.t.w ... what is the definition of service ceiling ?

service ceiling: The altitude at which a specified kind of aircraft cannot, because of reduced atmospheric pressure, climb faster than a specified rate.

 

[Black Widow]

About air to air missile: There is no aircraft presently in service anywhere on this earth which can evade missiles by speed since missiles travel at Mach 4+ speed. Air to air missiles can only be countered through electronic warfare suites, chaff/flare dispenser or by aircrafts maneuverability.

Wasn't it MiG25 which dodge the missile by its great speed and hurt its powerhouse????? I have heard this story somewhere..

 

[rockstarIN]

If we station LCA in Sulur or Coiambohtore, can they offer air support to the Kerala costal line? including Lakshwadeep?

 

[sancho]

Come on guys, be fair, he has some points!

Many prob in LCA.
1) So far no contract or deal is done with lockhead for GE404.

He is right, we have no contract with Lockhead Martin, donno why but for some reasons we made it with General Electric for those engines.

with 1.6 Mach...and 2000 KM max range it cant perform deap strike or fight with aircrafts having ~2.0 mach speed.

Even here, he might have a point:

Technical Specifications FC-1/JF-17
Performance: max level speed 'clean' at altitude Mach 1.6 or 1,909 km/h (1,186 mph); service ceiling 15,240 m (50,000 ft); ferry range 2,037 km

Pakistan Aeronautical Complex....

3)It has good Air to Air weaponary system (but they can be fail with this kind of speed) but looks weak in air to ground and air to sea missiles.

And he is right here as well, we might have integrated the Litening targeting pod years ago, have droped dumb bombs with high accuracy, are developing our own LGB, co-developing sat guidance for KAB Bomb series, developing a carrier version that possibly should be able to use an anti ship missile, but otherwise there is not much and other fighters might offer more:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/931408-post2725.html


As you can see, he obviously knows what he is talking about, so he must be right, that a fighter with a maximum speed of Mach 1.6, a range of 2000Km and that has nothing else then dumb bombs so far, might have several issues. So we should be happy that Tejas is not inducted into service in our air force now.

 

[sancho]

If we station LCA in Sulur or Coiambohtore, can they offer air support to the Kerala costal line? including Lakshwadeep?

Not sure about that, but we can expect that these 2 squads will be used mainly for training pilots and ground crews, start placing logistics and maintenance... and therefor will be placed at the same base for the same area. We might see a Tejas squad (maybe even one of those MK1s) later at Trivandrum, or Cochin, which should be a better location for patroling these coastlines.

 

[rajan_united]

We have ordered GE F404-IN20 for first 25 aircrafts, other Mk II LCA will be equipted with GE F414.
But our 25 LCA are enouth for 16 J-10 that you will get.

 

[rajan_united]

Not sure about that, but we can expect that these 2 squads will be used mainly for training pilots and ground crews, start placing logistics and maintenance... and therefor will be placed at the same base for the same area. We might see a Tejas squad (maybe even one of those MK1s) later at Trivandrum, or Cochin, which should be a better location for patroling these coastlines.

Why should we use fighter aircrafts in patorling ???
We have 2 two squadrons of Heron and Searcher Mk-II in Kochi and Porbandar. We already have Ilyushin Il-38 May, Tupolev Tu-142 for Maritime patrol.

 

[rockstarIN]

^^ In case Navy needs air support in Kerala coastal area then?

 

[Joe Shearer]

Come on guys, be fair, he has some points!



He is right, we have no contract with Lockhead Martin, donno why but for some reasons we made it with General Electric for those engines.

This comment foxed me completely.

The GE404 is a motor produced by General Electric; why on earth should we haved contracted with Lockheed Martin for it? What did Lockheed have to do with it?

All Lockheed did was (parallel to BAe US) discuss how control laws were written. Our ADE scientists actually starting writing these in their laboratories, then one fine morning, they were asked to vacate the premises, without even getting their own personal notes back!

Engines? What did they have to do with engines?



Even here, he might have a point:



Pakistan Aeronautical Complex....




And he is right here as well, we might have integrated the Litening targeting pod years ago, have droped dumb bombs with high accuracy, are developing our own LGB, co-developing sat guidance for KAB Bomb series, developing a carrier version that possibly should be able to use an anti ship missile, but otherwise there is not much and other fighters offers might offer more:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/931408-post2725.html


As you can see, he obviously knows what he is talking about, so he must be right, that a fighter with a maximum speed of Mach 1.6, a range of 2000Km and that has nothing else then dumb bombs so far, might have several issues. So we should be happy that Tejas is not inducted into service in our air force now.

There are several issues I have with this. What exactly, in your opinion, or in his, if it comes to that, should we have aimed for? Among other things, this exercise was supposed to find a cheap, light substitute for our cheap, light point interceptor, the MiG 21 and its follow on models. Please go back and check what the MiG 21 originally did; it was a point interceptor and nothing more. It was fitted up for ground attack later.

"The MiG-21, which initially achieved renown during the Vietnam War, in which it saw extensive action, was designed for very short ground-controlled interception (GCI) missions....."

I hope that this discussion is not the same old will-o-the-wisp about Multi-Role Combat Aircraft, or such totally discredited concepts.

 

[gowthamraj]

If we station LCA in Sulur or Coiambohtore, can they offer air support to the Kerala costal line? including Lakshwadeep?

kochi is only 230 km from here. Tejas have 500 km combat radius.

 

[Joe Shearer]

kochi is only 230 km from here. Tejas have 500 km combat radius.

Sorry, only 300 km.

 

[rockstarIN]

Sorry, only 300 km.

Still I think LCA can cover those areas incl. Lakshwadeep area.

Out air power is so much concentrated in the northern & western boundaries.. We need adequate air support in all the areas with least possible reaction time.

 

[sancho]

Why should we use fighter aircrafts in patorling ???
We have 2 two squadrons of Heron and Searcher Mk-II in Kochi and Porbandar. We already have Ilyushin Il-38 May, Tupolev Tu-142 for Maritime patrol.

Because UAVs have no attack capabilities, especially in the anti ship role, IAF even offered MKIs for long range patrol flights against the piracy problem.
Also they would be used for air patrols as well, in case any unidentified aircraft enters our air space, that's the prime role of such interceptors like LCA.

There are several issues I have with this. What exactly, in your opinion, or in his,

Just used his own words against him, to prove that his points doesn't make sense.

 

[Dash]

Sorry, only 300 km.

Even F-16 has a combat radius of 550 Kms without external tanks. and its much heavier than LCA. Compared to that LCA fares well, and MK2 will only enhance the combat radius.

This also fits for rols of interception coz you dont intercept an aircraft which is 500 kms away from your borders.

But compared to our needs I will still say Its a bit less than exopected but not bad.

 

[SpArK]

Even F-16 has a combat radius of 550 Kms without external tanks. and its much heavier than LCA. Compared to that LCA fares well, and MK2 will only enhance the combat radius.

This also fits for rols of interception coz you dont intercept an aircraft which is 500 kms away from your borders.

But compared to our needs I will still say Its a bit less than exopected but not bad.

And we can surely expect these figures to up with more fuel efficient F-414 in the next batch!