HAL Tejas | Updates, News & Discussions

[Sergi]

LSP-7 & 8 willbe handed over after the IOC-2 to IAF.

Yup thats why I asked. Arent they supposed to be IAF now ?

 

[HariPrasad]

Hi Guys,

Work on LCA MK2 is in full swing. Some configurations of LCA are testes on Jaguar and other models of LCA in order to reduce testing once LCA MK2 flies. It includes new F claws and weight distribution in new frame.

A change in exhaust design is also planned.

 

[Sri]

Can you please let us know if there is any plan to improve the air inlet design in MK2 as MK1's main problem seems to be air intakes ( read it some where) due to which its not able to deliver the thrust. Thanks in Advance...

 

[sancho]

Can you please let us know if there is any plan to improve the air inlet design in MK2 as MK1's main problem seems to be air intakes ( read it some where) due to which its not able to deliver the thrust. Thanks in Advance...

If that would be an issue, they would need credible changes for the GE 414 engine, but according to all official statements, the air intake remains the same with some minor changes to the inlets. The last few prototypes however saw some drag improvements to the intakes, just like at the APU intake.

 

[Yogi]

@sancho @sandy_3126 @Dillinger @Abingdonboy @gslv mk3

1. Are the 8 LSPs part of the 20 Mk1?

2. If everything goes as per plan(like Mk1- FOC by Dec 2014), how much time do u believe HAL will take to have the full production capacity of 16 planes/yr ?
Or will it be around 20 planes/yr?

3. By what time do u expect Mk2 to get FOC n get into production?

 

[rockstarIN]

^^ 20 LCA-MKI will be counted as SP-1, SP2 etc not LSP. so far I know. SP-1 is under production I believe.

 

[kurup]

LCA Tejas Update

Naval Prototype (NP-1) which was grounded for over more then a year to fix landing gear issues has once again joined the test flights with modified landing gear and after few test in Bangalore will soon move to Naval base INS Hansa in Goa for further trails there , Shore-Based Test Facility (SBTF) in INS Hansa is almost complete and this facility will be used to train Naval pilots for aircraft carrier roles .

According to sources close to idrw.org minor Performance improvement has been carried out on Tejas MK-1 (LSP ) but no details have been provided on how that was achieved . LCA team were also able to double up the test flights carried out in 2013 from last year with out facing any technical issues with the aircraft , in 2012 LCA variants carried out 204 test flights , but till October 2013 test flights carried out stood at 417 which is highest in last 12 years from its first flight in 2001 .

IOC-2 of the LCA has been set for 31st Dec 2013 and it seems it might been achieved , SP-1 and SP-2 which will be IOC certified aircraft which will be ready soon and have its first flight by March 2014 next year and plans are to hand them over to IAF by Mid of 2014 for user tests. HAL will than manufacture 40 GE F-404 engines in two lots of 20 each for Tejas Mk-I , First 20 Lca will be IOC certified and second lot will be FOC certified and FOC is planned to be achieved by end of 2015 and another 100 GE F-414 engines will be brought for Tejas Mk-II.

PV-1 which was long pulled out of test flights is currently been fitted with electronic warfare (EW) systems and will be back in air to carry out tests . sources ahave also confirmed that HAL and ADA have started testing Tejas MK-2 LRU’s and other components.

http://idrw.org/?p=28815

 

[sancho]

@sancho @sandy_3126 @Dillinger @Abingdonboy @gslv mk3

1. Are the 8 LSPs part of the 20 Mk1?

2. If everything goes as per plan(like Mk1- FOC by Dec 2014), how much time do u believe HAL will take to have the full production capacity of 16 planes/yr ?
Or will it be around 20 planes/yr?

3. By what time do u expect Mk2 to get FOC n get into production?

Recent reports only said that Mk1 is already in production, not sure if the LSP would be part of that batch, or remain for test and training purposes.
Full production depends on the order, we currently have 40 Mk1s on order, while the follow orders are for MK2, which will have credible changes so can't be simply been done like that. More importantly, it all depends on when that version is fully developed! If the MK2 can only be available around 2018, it doesn't make sense to speed up LCA MK1 production too fast and stop the production till 2017, when the MK2 can be started.
To be honest, the MK2 is still so uncertain, if we don't even know basic specs about it how can we speculate about it's FOC?

Still a long way to go and I am more interested in how capable or not capable the MK1 really will be!
What radar will it have (Indian or Israeli MMR), which HMS, when will Derby be inducted and will it get Python V too? How long will it take to induct Sudarshan LGB and can it get Helina as well, what is the real range and endurance, or how hard will it be to detect, compared to Mig 21s or M2Ks?
People think too much about LCA MK2, some even about MK3, or AMCA and we didn't even know too much about MK1!

 

[sancho]

P.S. LCA MK2 is basically build to IN and IAFs requirement, while MK1 is build as a "normal" 4th gen fighter. Today there is a huge market out there for low cost and cost-effective to operate fighters. I wonder if we could get the Israelis to form a partnership on joined marketing and sales of LCA MK1 for exports.

- EL 2032 radar
- Litening pod
- Dash HMS
- Python V SR AAM
- Derby MR AAM
- Spice 250, 1000, 2000
- Griffin LGBs
- possibly even airlaunched SPIKE or LAHAT ATGM pods

Add the US GE engines and you have a lot of capability export countries would like to have in a small and cost-effective fighter.

 

[SQ8]

P.S. LCA MK2 is basically build to IN and IAFs requirement, while MK1 is build as a "normal" 4th gen fighter. Today there is a huge market out there for low cost and cost-effective to operate fighters. I wonder if we could get the Israelis to form a partnership on joined marketing and sales of LCA MK1 for exports.

- EL 2032 radar
- Litening pod
- Dash HMS
- Python V SR AAM
- Derby MR AAM
- Spice 250, 1000, 2000
- Griffin LGBs
- possibly even airlaunched SPIKE or LAHAT ATGM pods

Add the US GE engines and you have a lot of capability export countries would like to have in a small and cost-effective fighter.

Arent the current LSP's essentially "operational" with some of the above capabilities?

 

[Yogi]

Recent reports only said that Mk1 is already in production, not sure if the LSP would be part of that batch, or remain for test and training purposes.
Full production depends on the order, we currently have 40 Mk1s on order, while the follow orders are for MK2, which will have credible changes so can't be simply been done like that. More importantly, it all depends on when that version is fully developed! If the MK2 can only be available around 2018, it doesn't make sense to speed up LCA MK1 production too fast and stop the production till 2017, when the MK2 can be started.
To be honest, the MK2 is still so uncertain, if we don't even know basic specs about it how can we speculate about it's FOC?

Still a long way to go and I am more interested in how capable or not capable the MK1 really will be!
What radar will it have (Indian or Israeli MMR), which HMS, when will Derby be inducted and will it get Python V too? How long will it take to induct Sudarshan LGB and can it get Helina as well, what is the real range and endurance, or how hard will it be to detect, compared to Mig 21s or M2Ks?
People think too much about LCA MK2, some even about MK3, or AMCA and we didn't even know too much about MK1!

Btw what do u think about the future role of Mk1 in IAF?

I mean i read somewhere that only Mk2 will be used in battle field. So, whats the point of inducting 40 Mk1?

IMO If its basic training n know-how n developing tactics then 10-12 Mk1(FOC) + 8 LSP(upgraded to IOC 2) r sufficient as we already have Hawks.

PS:
With respect to Export possibilities of Mk1, i think its very limited as HAL always have production limitations due to huge IAF orders n Korean FA50 would be pretty hard to beat as it offers similar specs(although LCA is slightly better) while the price is the same(or rather less) n it already got an export client in the form of Philippines n then we have China with FC1 with Pakistan as a proven platform.

 

[sudhir007]

http://idrw.org/?p=28830

Following successful weapon release trials in Jamnagar in July, the Tejas programme is speeding towards another crucial milestone with electronic warfare trials to take place in November.The entire gamut of electronic warfare systems on board the first prototype vehicle PV-1 will be put through a series of tests towards operational clearance.

Systems that will be checked out include radar warning receivers, jamming suites, self-protection suites, electronic countermeasures (ECM) and other systems. The Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) is in the process of checking out the PV-1 to ensure that it is ready in all respects for the electronic warfare (EW) flight trials. The airframe flew first in November 2003, and was replaced in the test programme after less than 250 flights as a result of consistent improvements in the later prototypes and limited series production airframes.

 

[IND151]

Following successful weapon release trials in Jamnagar in July, the Tejas program is speeding towards another crucial milestone with electronic warfare trials to take place in November.The entire gamut of electronic warfare systems on board the first prototype vehicle PV-1 will be put through a series of tests towards operational clearance.

Systems that will be checked out include radar warning receivers, jamming suites, self-protection suites, electronic countermeasures (ECM) and other systems. The Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) is in the process of checking out the PV-1 to ensure that it is ready in all respects for the electronic warfare (EW) flight trials. The airframe flew first in November 2003, and was replaced in the test programme after less than 250 flights as a result of consistent improvements in the later prototypes and limited series production airframes.


http://idrw.org/?p=28830

 

[sancho]

Arent the current LSP's essentially "operational" with some of the above capabilities?

That's the point! It's not sure if they will use the EL 2032, but Dash HMS, Litening, or Derby are already fixed, so increasing the Israeli ammount and getting them as a JV partner to market LCA MK1s with the high content of Israeli systems will give them a good chance for higher exports of their systems, just like we could benefit from their marketing advantages. There are a lot of countries that obviously will prefer LCA with Python V and Derby, instead of R73 and a non available Astra. When the aim is to export it now or as soon as possible, Israel and their systems would be a great choice!
For IAF on the other side, the Israeli systems and the MK1 are only a bridge to the capabilities they require and an increased Indian content, that can be developed alongside LCA upgrades, but which shouldn't stop us from offering the fighter for exports.

Btw what do u think about the future role of Mk1 in IAF?

It is developed with full capabilities, IAF even insisted on strike trials and operating it at high altitude areas, although the MK1s are meant to be stationed in the south, which means if necessary, IAF plans to use them in all over the country too. The main role of LCA is of course interception, or air policing, with the Litening pod and LGBs it will be able to perform CAS just like the Jags too and depending on if IAF integrates Kh 35 to them as well, they even could be used for anti ship roles.

 

[SQ8]

That's the point! It's not sure if they will use the EL 2032, but Dash HMS, Litening, or Derby are already fixed, so increasing the Israeli ammount and getting them as a JV partner to market LCA MK1s with the high content of Israeli systems will give them a good chance for higher exports of their systems, just like we could benefit from their marketing advantages. There are a lot of countries that obviously will prefer LCA with Python V and Derby, instead of R73 and a non available Astra. When the aim is to export it now or as soon as possible, Israel and their systems would be a great choice!
For IAF on the other side, the Israeli systems and the MK1 are only a bridge to the capabilities they require and an increased Indian content, that can be developed alongside LCA upgrades, but which shouldn't stop us from offering the fighter for exports..

Question is, in the history of fighter exports it is pertinent that some local usage be demonstrated first before exports are undertaken. The Israelis just got off modernization contracts for South American markets so it is safe to say that airforce such as Chile, Ecuador and Peru are just off their recent modernization efforts so they might not be interested. Middle eastern clients would back off due to Israel which leaves just places in the far east. The Central Asian states are very Russian bound as well. So the market sector really needs further exploration before committing to export. One market that could be exploited well using both economic and diplomatic contacts is Vietnam. It has a large fleet of Mig-21's that are up for replacement and it is looking around the arms market. That will however, put the Tejas in competition with the Russian entries and for that perhaps integration of the R-77 and 73 should be kept in hand.
The Israeli's need not be on JV and can instead continue to be program partners in terms of avionics.

That being said; there is no harm in asking the Israelis for help in probing their traditional markets in latin america or perhaps Africa.