HAL Tejas | Updates, News & Discussions

[Adux]

I think the wingless delta is a crappy design

I dont think that really matters

 

[Keysersoze]

I dont think that really matters

I think it matters a hell of a lot. There is a reason why no one is using that kind of design anymore. Which aircraft will the LCA replace again?

 

[Adux]

Its a point defence fighter, Its a replacing the MiG-21 , Delta's are better for strike anyways, Strike is going to be taken care of by the MMRCA and Su-30MKI now.
Tail less Delta's inherent instability used as an advantage using the Qaud FBW, therefore better manoveribility in the LCA

 

[con]

I think it matters a hell of a lot. There is a reason why no one is using that kind of design anymore. Which aircraft will the LCA replace again?

Keys,
You would like to read this.Interesting discussion between two guys called IndianFighter and Safdar.Could answer a lot of questions regarding delta design on LCA.
Needless to say ignore the rants,just concentrate on these guys. very technical stuff .


http://**************************/index.php?showtopic=63129&st=160

a rare technical discussion on PDF

 

[Keysersoze]

link doesn't work here for various reasons lol give me the "highlights" here?
I have read another interesting discussion on another forum re this as well.

 

[con]

The discussion is quite long. Kind of difficult to post highlight .Extremely sorry about that.

But then you use this link ...

Hope this works!

 

[BATMAN]

Composites,

Lighter airframe creating better thrust to weight ratio which in turn gives a better range cuz of fuel efficency on cruise mode, No corrosion, Radar absorbing which gives lower print on enemy radar, Lesser joints therefore lesser fatigue.

Better fuel efficiency cannot be simply described in plain words.
It all depends on selecting the engine size in ratio with load, selecting an engine with much higher power than load will have low efficiency. Hence to find (off the shelf) a jet engine for un-convential load can be a challenge.
Even paints can be equally radar absorbing.
BTW, there are radars in the market which can spot even the advance stelath aircrafts.
Lesser joints can be a positive aspect but perhaps joint fatigues are not very common threat to modern conventional fighter jets.

 

[Keysersoze]

The discussion is quite long. Kind of difficult to post highlight .Extremely sorry about that.

But then you use this link ...
http://tinyurl.com/2ev625

Hope this works!

Yeah dude that was interesting to read however it went round in circles lol.... and the guy who was a qualified in the area seemed to be quite certain that the tail-less delta was a bad design.

And the quote from FAS was interesting...

The delta wing has a number of limitations. Delta-winged aircraft have a long take-off run, since flaps are not practical as they would simply force the nose down; high landing speed; limited manoeuvrability; and suffer from buffeting at low altitude, due to the large wing area and resulting low wing loading. However, the delta is a simple and pleasing design, easily built and robust, capable of high speed in a straight line, and with plenty of space in the wing for fuel storage.

Also the low g-loads were quite telling.

 

[ahussains]

Yeah dude that was interesting to read however it went round in circles lol.... and the guy who was a qualified in the area seemed to be quite certain that the tail-less delta was a bad design.

And the quote from FAS was interesting...

The delta wing has a number of limitations. Delta-winged aircraft have a long take-off run, since flaps are not practical as they would simply force the nose down; high landing speed; limited manoeuvrability; and suffer from buffeting at low altitude, due to the large wing area and resulting low wing loading. However, the delta is a simple and pleasing design, easily built and robust, capable of high speed in a straight line, and with plenty of space in the wing for fuel storage.

Also the low g-loads were quite telling.

Buddy you r direct hitting the indians they never accept these limation about the Delta wings they try to prove you this Aircraft is the most advance and the efficent aircarft of today and belong to some 4.5 genration catagory and some time its abilities are match up with the F-22

Sorry i say any thing worng

 

[Adux]

What wing design will you suggest for a Point defense fighter,

 

[Adux]

Tejas to experiment with Israeli avionics and weapons
16 May, 2007 (FIDSNS)

As an intreme measure to speed up operationalizing the Light Combat Aircraft “Tejas,” India might consider Israeli Multimode radar and weapons. In an exclusive to FIDSNS the sources said that the last series of Limited Series Production (LSP) will be experimented for weaponisation.

In a written reply to parliament on May 16, 2007, the defence minister mentioned “M/s ELTA, Israel is the lowest bidder in response to a Request for Proposal (RFP) issued for procurement of some radars for the Indian Air Force. However, no contract has been signed with the firm.”

More at *****************

 

[niaz]

Yeah dude that was interesting to read however it went round in circles lol.... and the guy who was a qualified in the area seemed to be quite certain that the tail-less delta was a bad design.

And the quote from FAS was interesting...

The delta wing has a number of limitations. Delta-winged aircraft have a long take-off run, since flaps are not practical as they would simply force the nose down; high landing speed; limited manoeuvrability; and suffer from buffeting at low altitude, due to the large wing area and resulting low wing loading. However, the delta is a simple and pleasing design, easily built and robust, capable of high speed in a straight line, and with plenty of space in the wing for fuel storage.

Also the low g-loads were quite telling.

As someone who has studied a little bit of fluid dymanics; you are right about a tail less delta.
It would theortically need longer take off and landing speed and you would need to reduce the speed really low to turn it in tight circles.

However delta wing has considerable advantages as well. Mirage series have proved this. Initially Mirage 111 had a jet assissted take off to overcome high take off speed problem and that is why it was never adopted for the carrier use. Swedes pioneered delta/double delta and canards for fighter aircraft. Even J10 has delta with canards. Any brand new aircraft such as LCA is designed to meet stated targets. Obviously, advanatges of a delta wing must over ride its short comings else why would so many newer aircraft designs use this.

This doesnot mean LCA is better only question is ' Would LCA do what it was supposed to do'??.

 

[Adux]

Sir,

How exactly does the Quadruplex FBW, use the inherent unstability of the delta config to the aircraft's advantage. The main reason for the LCA going Delta is this.

 

[niaz]

Sir,

How exactly does the Quadruplex FBW, use the inherent unstability of the delta config to the aircraft's advantage. The main reason for the LCA going Delta is this.

Stability is related to where the centre of gravity of the aircraft is located and not necessarilly linked to Delta shape. For example Mirage 111 and Mig 21 are delta but stable. F-16 is not delta but unstable. Inherently unstable means that it wont fly in straight line if all controls are lost. Any unstable shape implies that it will change direction more easily ( monuverable) but would drop out of the sky if FBW controls stop working. It would be virtually impossible to fly without FBW. Quadruple FBW only means that there are 4 FBW control systems which gives a lot of redudancy giving assurance that it will keep on flying even if one FBW syustem is working.

 

[Adux]

Sir,

There are other proven design, like the tri-plane's in the sukhoi's; But they didnt use that..EF, J-10, Rafale, Mirage etc etc are all pure delta's; The question is WHY go for a Delta design with all its flaws. What I am getting at is; How does this design help the role intended for the LCA ie a Point Defense Fighter.