HAL Tejas | Updates, News & Discussions-[Thread 2]

[sancho]

Lets agree to stick to just one point- Why is IAF not inducting each Tejas as it rolls down from final assembly line like other air forces ?

Hehe can't counter facts right?
Again, that's not the case witin IAF as shown with the MKI example, nor is it the case in other air forces. You base that only on the BS statement of the author!

Simple example to understand the reality:

2 Oct 2012

Dassault and its industry partners on the Rafale combat aircraft have achieved a significant programme milestone with the delivery of the first production example to feature an active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar.

PICTURE: France accepts first AESA-equipped Rafale - 10/2/2012 - Flight Global

20 Jun 2013

With a first sensor already in the advanced stages of test and evaluation at its air force's Mont-de-Marsan air base, an operational French squadron will within the next few weeks receive its first Dassault Rafale equipped with a new active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar.

"The first aircraft equipped with the new antenna will be delivered to the forces in late June or early July,"

PARIS: First AESA-equipped Rafale heads for squadron service - 6/20/2013 - Flight Global

So 8 to 9 months between production of the fighter and actual induction into squadron service!

 

[greatone]

Hehe can't counter facts right?
Again, that's not the case witin IAF as shown with the MKI example, nor is it the case in other air forces. You base that only on the BS statement of the author!

Hehe
Real mature.
That was another low for you.

Simple example to understand the reality:

PICTURE: France accepts first AESA-equipped Rafale - 10/2/2012 - Flight Global

PARIS: First AESA-equipped Rafale heads for squadron service - 6/20/2013 - Flight Global

So 8 to 9 months between production of the fighter and actual induction into squadron service!

A new radar was inducted, not a new fighter jet.
A radar is not a fighter jet :|

Induction of radar on platform you already operate = Induction of a new platform ?
Huh ?
Mental gymnastics!!!

Do I see a backtrack coming ? or another deflection ?
Because I know internet dudes have an inexplicable urge to have the last word everytime.

 

[sancho]

A radar, not a fighter.
A radar is not a fighter :|

Induction of radar on platform you already operate = Induction of a platform ?
Huh ?
Mental gymnastics!!

Do I see a backtrack coming ? or is it another deflection ?

LOL you are trying so hard and keep fooling yourself, another example?

No problem:

Deliveries to the RAF started in 2003 to 17(R) Sqn who were based at BAE Systems Warton Aerodrome in Lancashire (alongside the factory where the aircraft were assembled) while detailed development and testing of the aircraft was carried out. Formal activation of the first Typhoon Squadron at RAF Coningsby occurred on the 1st Jul 2005.

RAF - Typhoon FGR4

So 2 years between production and squadron service!!! Wonder what you will blame now to find excuses.

 

[greatone]

LOL you are trying so hard and keep fooling yourself, another example?

No problem:



RAF - Typhoon FGR4

So 2 years between production and squadron service!!! Wonder what you will blame now to find excuses.

Didn't I say we are discussing mode of induction like 2 posts ago ?Jeez man! get a grip.
You want me to spell it out for you ?


Britain, Germany, Italy and Spain formally agreed to start development of the aircraft in 1988 with contracts for a first batch of 148 aircraft – of which 53 were for the RAF – signed ten years later. Deliveries to the RAF started in 2003 to 17(R) Sqn who were based at BAE Systems Warton Aerodrome in Lancashire (alongside the factory where the aircraft were assembled) while detailed development and testing of the aircraft was carried out. Formal activation of the first Typhoon Squadron at RAF Coningsby occurred on the 1st Jul 2005. The aircraft took over responsibility for UK QRA on 29 Jun 2007 and was formally declared as an advanced Air Defence platform on 1 Jan 2008.


The question is IAF is not taking delivery.
Capability development came much later for Typhoon, RAF accepted it much before that.

Thanks for validating my point.

 

[Black Widow]

The first Tejas fighter had flown in September, but the IAF had refused to accept it until HAL could hand over eight fighters together, half the complement of the first Tejas squadron. Eventually, the defence ministry ordered the IAF to accept each fighter as it was built, like every air force does.

See these Dollar loving bastards are still sabotaging Indian product , The defence Minister put Rod in there a$$ and give a better spin..

Or better is fire all IAF officers (Above Wing cmdr level) without any retirement benefit. And put air force under Naval Aviation and Army Aviation corps...

These corrupt officers are mocking our nation interests.. |


Shame on these shameless creatures...

 

[Echo_419]

What a load of BS. It was always planned to induct them when 8 fighters will be available, 2 of them should had been produced last year, 6 this year, but most importantly after achieving FOC which was planned for last december. So why should IAF induct just a single fighter last year, that doesn't even fulfil the basic requirements for the operational service?

I will not put all the blame at HAL as the IAF also needs to support Aircraft development so that domestic industry can mature

 

[sancho]

I will not put all the blame at HAL as the IAF also needs to support Aircraft development so that domestic industry can mature

DRDO => developer => must be blamed for Kaveri and radar development failures as well as FOC delays now!

HAL => manufacturer => must be blamed for not being able to deliver the promised number of LCA SP's in 2014!

IAF => customer => can't be blamed for failures and mistakes of the earlier two, as well for sticking to agreed plans and requirements, which always was to raise the first squad only with the production of this year. Once because the SP1 and 2 were not based on IOC2 standards and more importantly, because any Air Force as shown, uses the first lot of fighters (especially of new production standards) for final test and evaluation before inducting them into operational service.

Poor work culture behind Tejas delay

...Though there will be progressive indigenisation of many parts and systems, the engine, the most important part of the aircraft, will continue to be imported. This is because the indigenously designed Kaveri engine was a failure.

The Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) and the entire defence production industry has performed much below par and has failed to meet the country’s expectations...

...Poor work culture in the DRDO and the state-owned defence industry could have been a major factor, and the lesson from Tejas is that this culture has to change. Tejas is expected to replace the old MiG-21 aircraft, and hopefully there will not be more unscheduled delays.

Poor work culture behind Tejas delay

 

[indiatester]

DRDO => developer => must be blamed for Kaveri and radar development failures as well as FOC delays now!

HAL => manufacturer => must be blamed for not being able to deliver the promised number of LCA SP's in 2014!

IAF => customer => can't be blamed for failures and mistakes of the earlier two, as well for sticking to agreed plans and requirements, which always was to raise the first squad only with the production of this year. Once because the SP1 and 2 were not based on IOC2 standards and more importantly, because any Air Force as shown, uses the first lot of fighters (especially of new production standards) for final test and evaluation before inducting them into operational service.



Poor work culture behind Tejas delay

IAF is not a customer but is responsible for the air security of India. It must hence partner to ensure it has a capable fighter that can be counted upon in times of need. It can't have this standoff attitude and blame DRDO and HAL. They must do all it takes to ensure that.

I am yet to see what IAF has done to ensure success of Tejas.

 

[Etilla]

IAF is not a customer but is responsible for the air security of India. It must hence partner to ensure it has a capable fighter that can be counted upon in times of need. It can't have this standoff attitude and blame DRDO and HAL. They must do all it takes to ensure that.

I am yet to see what IAF has done to ensure success of Tejas.

IAF has provided countless test pilots at great risk to HAL.

Many test pilots have dies flying the HAL junks.

IAF has ordered 40 Tejas 10 years ago and has not filed any lawsuit for damages in late delivery.

IAF is the victim of corrupt and defunct nature of HAL/ADA/DRDO

IAF is not even permitted to send observers to HAL but has to send its pilots to what is certainly a fiery death

 

[indiatester]

IAF has provided countless test pilots at great risk to HAL.

Does not count as contribution. You will be able to recruit Test Pilots out of IAF too.

Many test pilots have dies flying the HAL junks.

Testing involves some risks, so there have been some accidents. But I hear of far more number of incidents with IAF.

IAF has ordered 40 Tejas 10 years ago and has not filed any lawsuit for damages in late delivery.

IAF is the victim of corrupt and defunct nature of HAL/ADA/DRDO

IAF is not even permitted to send observers to HAL but has to send its pilots to what is certainly a fiery death

This is Where IAF should have taken them to task and pushed for more involvement. The seemed just happy seeing HAL/ADA making bad decisions and progress.

IAF should have not looked at this aircraft as a toy/vegetable they can buy in the market, but as a house they are going to live in. It is no good to just blame the architect + contractor when you have not participated whole heatedly.

 

[Etilla]

Does not count as contribution. You will be able to recruit Test Pilots out of IAF too.


Testing involves some risks, so there have been some accidents. But I hear of far more number of incidents with IAF.



This is Where IAF should have taken them to task and pushed for more involvement. The seemed just happy seeing HAL/ADA making bad decisions and progress.

IAF should have not looked at this aircraft as a toy/vegetable they can buy in the market, but as a house they are going to live in. It is no good to just blame the architect + contractor when you have not participated whole heatedly.

You cant just recruit serving IAF officers into a company.

Incidents with HAL license made planes and HAL license overhauled planes.

IAF is not happy/sad as they have been totally kept in the dark.

IAF has no choice and no power to push for more involvement

The MoD under Anthony denied IAF any power to take over Tejas project or even assist HAL.

Only give ASR to DRDO and sit back and shut up.

IAF is not allowed to participate at all so it is completely the fault of architect (ADA/DRDO) and contractor (HAL)

 

[indiatester]

You cant just recruit serving IAF officers into a company.

Incidents with HAL license made planes and HAL license overhauled planes.

IAF is not happy/sad as they have been totally kept in the dark.

IAF has no choice and no power to push for more involvement

The MoD under Anthony denied IAF any power to take over Tejas project or even assist HAL.

Only give ASR to DRDO and sit back and shut up.

IAF is not allowed to participate at all so it is completely the fault of architect (ADA/DRDO) and contractor (HAL)

Is IAF just going to play the victim card?
I agree that HAL/ADA are not world class agencies. But that is what IAF has got. So I want to know how they contributed positively for their own good. Actually not even their own good, but in the interest of the nation.

I have people in my team who only give reasons for some failure and I have people who get superb work done under the same set of constraints. Guess who get better ratings.

 

[Etilla]

Is IAF just going to play the victim card?
I agree that HAL/ADA are not world class agencies. But that is what IAF has got. So I want to know how they contributed positively for their own good. Actually not even their own good, but in the interest of the nation.

I have people in my team who only give reasons for some failure and I have people who get superb work done under the same set of constraints. Guess who get better ratings.

They have contributed by sacrificing many pilots to HAL.

They have contributed by ordering 40 Tejas and not taking legal action over delayed delivery

They have contributed by not shelving the project as it does not meet ASR.

You are underestimating the skill of IAF. If they wanted to bury Tejas then like HJT-39 it would never have happened and this thread and the previous thread never would have opened.

shamshan ghat pe kaam khatam kr dete

 

[sancho]

IAF is not a customer but is responsible for the air security of India. It must hence partner to ensure it has a capable fighter that can be counted upon in times of need. It can't have this standoff attitude and blame DRDO and HAL. They must do all it takes to ensure that.

I am yet to see what IAF has done to ensure success of Tejas.

In this case, IAF is the customer of a product that was developed for them, but not by taking them into the project as a partner in design and development. They gave the basic operational requirements, but it was DRDO that went for the project alone, with their own aims and ideas. It would be great if the forces would be more included and I am saying it for a long time, that we can't afford to give DRDO or HAL such a long leash to develop what THEY want, but that the MoD must give much more guidance to them, but that's still a long way to go.

 

[Mujraparty]

Tejas starts after overnight soak in extreme cold

New Delhi, Jan 28 (IANS): In another landmark for indigenous Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas, the aircraft was successfully started thrice after an overnight soak in the extreme cold of Ladakh, where the temperature dropped to minus 15 degrees Celsius.

"With three consecutive start-ups of its engine after overnight soak in extreme cold conditions of the Ladakh winter, that too without any external assistance, Tejas, the Indian LCA has achieved yet another and a rare distinction," a defence ministry statement said here Wednesday.

"Starting the fighter aircraft under such extreme condition without any external assistance or heating is a technology challenge. The requirements become further stringent when the starting is to be done three times consecutively with a partially charged battery," the statement said.

Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar earlier this month handed over the first Tejas to Indian Air Force (IAF) chief Air Chief Marshal Arup Raha.
As a single-engine multi-role supersonic fighter, Tejas, which is 60 percent indigenous, is set to replace the IAF's ageing Russia-made MiG-21 fleet when inducted in six squadrons after defence regulator Centre for Military Airworthiness and Certification (Cemilac) certifies it for Final Operational Clearance (FOC) later this year.

It has been developed by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) and the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO).

The engine starter has been developed indigenously by HAL Aero Engine Research and Design Centre (AERDC) in Bengaluru.

Prior to aircraft tests, the Jet Fuel Starter (JFS) was extensively tested to meet starting conditions across the operating altitudes including Leh (10,700 feet) and Khardungla (18,300 feet).


Tejas starts after overnight soak in extreme cold