What's new

HAL Tejas | Updates, News & Discussions-[Thread 2]

Thank you.
Also wanted to know, why it taking so long.
We making fighters from long ago.
In tejas also, many important parts like engine, radar, electronic suite, misiles are imported. They only assembling it to our own airframe.
Similar thing we been doing for so long with migs and sukhois. If our agencies did not learn anything from all that experience about making indigenous fighter, how can we be sure that they will learn anything here.we paid more money to make sukhois in India, from Russia directly it costs less.
Mwf will have great weight carrying capacity but again engine not powerful.
I think if we don't change our agencies, we will be in same position after 10 years.
 
Last edited:
3 years from date of signing the contract, as per HAL. That is when the first serial production Tejas Mk1A will roll out of the assembly line and be handed over to the IAF for squadron formation.

Should see the first Mk1A prototype (a modified Tejas Mk1 LSP prototype) fly in 2021. Should give around 2 years of time for trials to achieve IOC. FOC will take more time.

And yeah, the MWF is a really beautiful fighter. Already in detailed design phase, the metal cutting for the first prototype will begin in February 2021. First MWF prototype will be rolled out in 2022 or 2023.

As per the IAF, around 200 MWF will be inducted, to replace the Jaguar, MiG-29 and eventually the Mirage-2000.

I spoke with one person in HAL (very disinterested person)....he says that IAF is not interested in MK2 (MWF), but very interested in AMCA.....hence, ADA is shifting resources to AMCA.....Can it be true?
 
Thank you.
Also wanted to know, why it taking so long.
We making fighters from long ago.
In tejas also, many important parts like engine, radar, electronic suite, misiles are imported. They only assembling it to our own airframe.
Similar thing we been doing for so long with migs and sukhois. If our agencies did not learn anything from all that experience about making indigenous fighter, how can we be sure that they will learn anything here.we paid more money to make sukhois in India, from Russia directly it costs less.
Mwf will have great weight carrying capacity but again engine not powerful.
I think if we don't change our agencies, we will be in same position after 10 years.
Karon ihote sob misa kotha koi ase,,,enei hawat kotha koi.
Dont believe them.
Lca is a failed project,mk1a is just saving face.At best it is a poor mans mirage but costs more.
Mk1a will take 7-8years for induction,,baki bisakh nokoriba.
Mwf is a whole new aircraft,,induction 10-15years.(if they start now)
 
But in one video I saw ada chief say, no protype for mwf, direct production variant will be produced. It will fly in 2021-22.
It's not new aircraft but only adding canards to tejas design. If airforce orders it in large then I believe it can be inducted in 5-6years.but more powerful engine needed and strict changes in agencies.
And tejas is not failed program. It's flying and defending skies.
 
Is it true that the tejas fighters in squadron service do not have bvr, gun, jammer,adequate radar modes etc.
In the new video of foc pilot hear that ioc can do only 6g.
Feeling disappointed.
 
If you do have access to TP - then can you check why G is limited 8 and what is the STR ? What are the combat implications of limiting the g to 8

STR is not something they will reveal. When I had asked the ITR and STR details to a TP some years ago, all I was told was "it's enough..no need to worry about it". That was way before FOC.

In all honesty, given Dash-V HMDS and R-73E or ASRAAM like High-Offbore Sight (HOBS) missiles, a dogfight will end up in the targeted fighter getting a missile on it's tail. These HOBS missiles are truly incredible in the offbore angle at which they can be fired. The pilot needs to get the enemy on his HMDS, which he can do just by looking out of the cockpit and designating it with HOTAS controls. The Tejas doesn't even need to be pointing in the direction of the enemy fighter. If the enemy fighter is within a 180 degree arc of the Tejas' nose, the pilot will be able to designate the target on his HMDS and fire the R-73E and in the future, the ASRAAM.

8G vs 9G is far more relevant to a guns-only fight or during DACT when Rules of Engagement dictate that a guns-only engagement is required. Just FYI, the JF-17 and KAI FA-50 are also limited to max +8G. Only the Gripen is +9G rated out of the modern light fighters.

Is it true that the tejas fighters in squadron service do not have bvr, gun, jammer,adequate radar modes etc.
In the new video of foc pilot hear that ioc can do only 6g.
Feeling disappointed.

It is all software related- nothing to do with the hardware on the IOC jets as such. No.45 Squadron's IOC jets will get the updated FOC software release to allow for 8G maneuvering, Derby BVRAAM and full 24 deg AoA maneuvering. Remember, it is the FCS software that controls how many Gs or what AoA a pilot can achieve. So this will be easily done.

The Derby BVRAAM will be cleared for the No.45 Squadron's Tejas fighters too. Confirmed by HAL test pilot on Twitter.

As to the Gsh-23 cannon, trials are to be conducted once the Covid-19 restrictions are lifted. After that, No.45 Squadrons' fighters will also be cleared to fire the Gsh-23.

I don't know where you came up with this "adequate radar modes". As per reports, the Elta 2032 MMR on the Tejas is considered to be absolutely top notch. As of now, the best radar in the IAF, with the RDY-3 on the Mirage-2000I very close. As one person in the know mentioned, whereas the BARS radar on the Su-30MKI is a brute, the Elta 2032 MMR is much more refined. The exact words as I recall were that the resolution of the Tejas' Elta 2032 MMR radar in Air to Air modes is far better than on the BARS.

I spoke with one person in HAL (very disinterested person)....he says that IAF is not interested in MK2 (MWF), but very interested in AMCA.....hence, ADA is shifting resources to AMCA.....Can it be true?

Lol..if the IAF is so disinterested in the MWF, then why are they committing to ordering 200+ MWF jets?

From all reports, the IAF is EXTREMELY interested in the MWF. They have officers embedded in the program from the Project Definition Phase (PDP) itself. It is the IAF which wanted the MWF to have a MTOW of 17.5 tons, up from the earlier defined 16 tons.

Given how much the Mirage-2000 is respected in the IAF, the MWF is the closest the IAF will come to replacing it with a fighter designed to meet and exceed it's specifications in every aspect. And the IAF knows that.

What is not very clear is how the IAF is looking at HAL's proposed ORCA twin engined fighter. That would be a Rafale class fighter, derived from the TEDBF that ADA is working on for the Indian Navy's fighter requirement.
 
Thank you
I am not expert but I don't believe things are simple like u say.
Upgrade can only done after producing all foc in 4years.till then no gun, no bvr, no jammer, what good is it, maybe for training only. Who thinks of making fighter without bvr and gun.
Radar with imported radome work now.

And if mwf fails to produce in time, it will become same like tejas. Ada chief says in 1-2 years for flying. It must be completed in time this time. But must think of better engine then f414. N discipline agencies.

By the way, I am very disappointed after watching new video of annanthakrishna on sp21.
Some engineers and technicians talk poorly in English like me.
Even for MA student like me is difficult to read good books because most are in English.
How did this technicians and engineers pass exams.
How they read latest development and scientific articles with so poor English.
 
But in one video I saw ada chief say, no protype for mwf, direct production variant will be produced. It will fly in 2021-22.
It's not new aircraft but only adding canards to tejas design. If airforce orders it in large then I believe it can be inducted in 5-6years.but more powerful engine needed and strict changes in agencies.
And tejas is not failed program. It's flying and defending skies.

No, what Dr Girish Deodhare had said was that Production Standard Prototypes will be built.

Basically there won't be a Technology Demonstrator or Limited Series Prototypes built, as was the case with Tejas Mk1. Production Standard Prototypes can be built because all the technologies that needed to be demonstrated and validated before going to production, such as quadruplex digital FBW FCS, composites and glass cockpit, have all been perfected on the Tejas Mk1 itself.

As far as MWF being a new aircraft is concerned, here is what it will be-

- New control surfaces (canards), modified outer geometry and better wing to body blending. The vertical tail is taller by ~0.25 meters
- the FBW FCS will be derived from the Tejas Mk1. It will be modified as per the MWF design. It has to cater to the new control surfaces (canards) that are being introduced. It will have to be modified due to the higher weights and different CG and CL that the MWF will have compared to the Tejas Mk1
- the cockpit will be new, with Large Area Display (LAD) and side-stick controller instead of the center stick on the Mk1 and Mk1A. New wider HUD will be used. HOTAS controls similar to Tejas Mk1 and Mk1A
- Updated Fuel Management System that will be derived from the Tejas Mk1
- Updated Brake Management System that will be derived from the Tejas Mk1
- New Digital Flight Control Computer (DFCC) that is also being used for the Tejas Mk1A. Far more capable, far faster.
- New Architecture for the Avionics
- On-board Oxygen Generating System (OBOGS) for basically allowing LOX cylinders to be replaced. Current Tejas Mk1 is restricted to 10 hour long sortie based on the amount of LOX carried onboard. the OBOGS is already ready.
- New airframe structure, which is obvious given the much higher payload, internal fuel, etc.
- Wing span increased by 0.3 meters. This is done by moving the wings out, not by making the wings bigger. As it is, the Tejas Mk1 has the LOWEST wing loading of almost any fighter in the world. MWF will maintain the same low wing loading thanks to the addition of canards that will also generate lift, despite wing area not being increased from the Mk1. As you might know, Low Wing Loading equates to maneuverability.
- New wing-tip pylons to carry CCM (ASRAAM class)
- New inboards, that include the wiring, piping, etc. Again, it will be starting off from the Tejas Mk1 and modified accordingly
- AESA radar that will most likely be the indigenous Uttam AESA radar, which is currently being tested on a Tejas prototype. Out of the 18 air to air, air to ground and air to sea modes that needed to be tested, 10 have been tested so far.
- new Long Range Dual Band IRST, most likely derived from the indigenous IRST that is being developed for the Su-30MKI
Earlier this week, the Defence Acquisition Council (DAC), led by India’s defence minister, also approved the indigenous design and development of a long range dual band infrared imaging search and track system (IRST) for the Su-30 MKI. At least 100 units are to be procured.
article link

A lot of work, but still a derivative of the Tejas, since the baseline is the technologies that were developed for the Tejas Mk1.

Thank you
I am not expert but I don't believe things are simple like u say.
Upgrade can only done after producing all foc in 4years.till then no gun, no bvr, no jammer, what good is it, maybe for training only. Who thinks of making fighter without bvr and gun.
Radar with imported radome work now.

I never said it was simple. It requires a lot of work, but ADA, HAL and NAL are deeply involved in it along with other DRDO labs. The govt.'s direction is clear- the MRCA will be the last imported fighter. Indigenous fighters are the way to go and funding is made available to make that happen.

So please tell me why is it that upgrade can be done only after producing all FOC jets? And be specific.

Did you see the Tarmak video carefully? If so, did you not spot SP-1 (LA-5001) and SP-5 (LA-5005) in the hangar right next to SP-21? They were both in the hangar undergoing some sort of repair or modifications (engine was taken out of LA-5005).

Software upgrades don't require the airplane to be taken apart. I don't know how aware you of software deployment and testing, but it can be done with the airplane grounded for a couple of days, then tested and flown. And the gun and the pylon to carry the Derby BVRAAM (which was there on SP-21, now called SP-17) can be integrated by HAL easily in the hangar. It doesn't require overhaul to be done.

SPJ is coming with the Mk1A. the problem is the lack of internal space. But it will eventually find it's way back into the Mk1 too. It is a high priority item.

What is the problem with the radome being imported from Cobham? It works beautifully and allows the Tejas' Elta 2032 MMR to be used to it's full capability.

As for who thinks of making fighter without BVR and gun, check out what the Typhoon Tranche 1 and Rafale F1 were capable of. All fighters are updated and upgraded over time. if you want everything from day 1, then you'll be sitting waiting and then

And if mwf fails to produce in time, it will become same like tejas. Ada chief says in 1-2 years for flying. It must be completed in time this time. But must think of better engine then f414. N discipline agencies.

By the way, I am very disappointed after watching new video of annanthakrishna on sp21.
Some engineers and technicians talk poorly in English like me.
Even for MA student like me is difficult to read good books because most are in English.
How did this technicians and engineers pass exams.
How they read latest development and scientific articles with so poor English.

ADA Chief never said 1-2 years of flying. Don't put words in his mouth. The MWF will follow the path of the Tejas Mk1 and Mk1A - first it will target IOC with a limited set of capabilities. Only a couple of years after IOC will it get FOC, which will require thousands of test points to be tested out.

Look at the Gripen E/F program to gain in insight into how complex this process is. When did it first fly and when is the first IOC Gripen E/F going to be handed over?

As for your being disappointed over the engineers' English, I'd say just grow up!

I work in aerospace and I've worked with Serbian and Russian engineers who could barely speak a sentence of English. Italians from Alenia who spoke terrible English. Frenchmen from Dassault who won't even attempt to speak English despite knowing the words. Japanese from Mitsubishi Aerospace who needed translators. Americans who came to the airplane factory in shorts and sleeveless shirts. But they knew their work very well and I am proud to say that I've learnt from most of them.

If you make your opinions of people based on how good their English is or how smart they look, then that speaks more about you than the others.
 
What is the problem with the radome being imported from Cobham? It works beautifully and allows the Tejas' Elta 2032 MMR to be used to it's full capability.
So Elta has refused to work with Cobham. So in all probability - from Mk1A onwards we might see radome from Elta. I guess its their way of getting more work share - pity considering Cobham really accommodated us.

Since you are in touch with TP - whats their opinion about ODL ? Why is it so much delayed ? And what is the current status ? Also how does ODL solve the problem of sharing tactical data between Russian a/c's ( Su 30,etc )to wester a/c's (Rafale)?

Thanks
 
So Elta has refused to work with Cobham. So in all probability - from Mk1A onwards we might see radome from Elta. I guess its their way of getting more work share - pity considering Cobham really accommodated us.

Since you are in touch with TP - whats their opinion about ODL ? Why is it so much delayed ? And what is the current status ? Also how does ODL solve the problem of sharing tactical data between Russian a/c's ( Su 30,etc )to wester a/c's (Rafale)?

Thanks

Yes, it's a pity that Elta refused to work with Cobham for the Mk1A. They likely didn't want to share all the technical data that Cobham would've required for the Elta 2052 to work without any hitch with a Cobham radome. We have seen similar problems with MBDA refusing to share Meteor technical data with Elta to allow the Meteor to be integrated with the Mk1A's Elta 2052 AESA.

Su-30s already have a datalink between them which apparently is extremely useful. That is per a former senior Su-30MKI pilot. ODL will help bring other IAF fighters into the same datalink so they can share images, target data, HMS (Health Monitoring System) data, etc. with AWACS, IACCS on the ground, UAVs and other fighters in the air. SDR is being implemented on Su-30s, Jaguars and ALH as of now. About 500 SDR sets have been ordered. Tejas Mk1A is to get the SDRs as well.
 
One of the most accurate and well done CG renderings of the Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter. Currently in the Detailed Design phase. Metal cutting on the first Production Standard prototype was meant to begin by February next year, although this Covid-19 crisis might add some schedule delay.

Size, weights, payload and thrust are all in Mirage-2000 category.

HRe98g3.png


A few more images, all courtesy of Kuntal Biswas.

jP8PUte.png

CjcsboO.png

dN5mYVx.png

13b17aae-c06d-449d-aa6b-55cf6d27d6ea

JUfXbbs.png

db18200b-86b3-4513-a1e5-09cf06e41576
 
Last edited:
But how they read higher technology books and articles. All those books in English, so means they cannot read or understand them.so they cannot learn good.
Russians, Europeans, Chinese and Japanese have translated all higher study books in there language. So cannot compare.
Also want to say that I am not lieing, chief say that mwf will be flying in 2021 end or 2022 beginning.
Please listen after 1:30 in this video of drdo.
I hope they do it in time this time and not late like always.

Also I do not know anything about this technologies, so I can make mistake in understanding. So asking.
 
Back
Top Bottom