HAL seeks clarity on futuristic projects

[thesolar65]

This is 16th Loksabha. Till now whatever parties have come they have promised these two things.

1. To revive PSUs
2. To improve India-Pak relations.



@sandy_3126 @halupridol @Indo-guy @sms @Abingdonboy

 

[sancho]

how is CCS clearance is linked to Russian side and negotiations ..?

Not sure, I just took what the article said, could be clearing the price that the Russians asked, or checking for other sources for spares from the west, as the former Air Chief wanted.
However, you quoted out of context and simply assumed that it must has something to do with the MoD not taking decisions, because that's what these PR terms (policy paralysis or indecisiveness ) during election times does, generalise things to lead people to assumtions!
You have to remain open minded and not just take what politicians say for granted, especially not during elections. Modi for example bashed Bangladeshis and threatened Pakistan just a few weeks back, but now he is inviting their leaders to his ceremony. That actually is a good sign and I am happy about it, since I am worried about the foreign policy of BJP, but it doesn't make Modi look very decisive either, when he basically makes a U turn from the way he acted before. But that's politics and during the elections it simply was more suitable for him, or the BJP to look strong against them, but now in power, the realities are somewhat different and more diplomatic movement and compromises are needed.

 

[sancho]

what about the mig 27 engine upgrade?

No engine upgrade for Mig 27s, they will be phased out till 2017 (2 upgraded squads maybe later).

 

[Indo-guy]

Not sure, I just took what the article said, could be clearing the price that the Russians asked, or checking for other sources for spares from the west, as the former Air Chief wanted.
However, you quoted out of context and simply assumed that it must has something to do with the MoD not taking decisions, because that's what these PR terms (policy paralysis or indecisiveness ) during election times does, generalise things to lead people to assumtions!
You have to remain open minded and not just take what politicians say for granted, especially not during elections. Modi for example bashed Bangladeshis and threatened Pakistan just a few weeks back, but now he is inviting their leaders to his ceremony. That actually is a good sign and I am happy about it, since I am worried about the foreign policy of BJP, but it doesn't make Modi look very decisive either, when he basically makes a U turn from the way he acted before. But that's politics and during the elections it simply was more suitable for him, or the BJP to look strong against them, but now in power, the realities are somewhat different and more diplomatic movement and compromises are needed.

I did not say anything about MoD ! I talked about government and not MoD ...don't put your words in my mouth

Please go back and check all of my previous posts ....

I talked about policy paralysis in government.

from article ( if you believe in it ) ..it is clear that CCS has not given clearance since September ( whatever the reasons may be ..they have not been stated )

I did not trump up modi card either ....I just said hopefully ....now things will improve and change for better

that I would have said in case of any new regime ...

 

[sancho]

I talked about government and not MoD

And that is not the same?

from article ( if you believe in it ) ..it is clear that CCS has not given clearance since September ( whatever the reasons may be ..they have not been stated )

I have no problem in beliving you, but you need to see it in context, which is in the scentence before and makes clear that it depends on the Russians and is not just a decision awaited from GoI / MoD.

 

[Indo-guy]

And that is not the same?



I have no problem in beliving you, but you need to see it in context, which is in the scentence before and makes clear that it depends on the Russians and is not just a decision awaited from GoI / MoD.

Yes they are related but not same . I made that distinction because you srated talking about MoD ..showing as if I was the one who dragged MoD's name in the conversation ...while fact of the matter is I never referred to MoD in any way


I do not think so article have not made any such claim . It says supply has been halted from Russian side .
and It says that awaiting CCS clearance since September ..well there is lot that has not been said .

To quote word to word from article ....

" As far as the Sukhoi cost escalation is concerned, the supplies are on hold from the Russian side. The issue is awaiting the Cabinet Committee on Security clearance since September,” said Tyagi, who recently completed two years in office.


But whatever may be reasons government is culpable on its side not to push the issue ...ultimately lack of supply may affect Su production .

CCS has to take some stand ...which it clearly has not ...why ? reasons could be many....

But very fact that matter is pending with CCS and not at lower levels of bureaucracy means that it is definitely in its final shape .

I agree that without specific details it is difficult to draw conclusion ..although outwardly it does look like another instance of Government / CCS dragging its feet on crucial issues ...

 

[ziaulislam]

No engine upgrade for Mig 27s, they will be phased out till 2017 (2 upgraded squads maybe later).

that will mean that india willl continue to be below full strength(42 sq) even in 2025?
even if induction of MRCA goes smoothly it wouldnt be able to fill the space created by mig 21 and mig 27

 

[sancho]

that will mean that india willl continue to be below full strength(42 sq) even in 2025?
even if induction of MRCA goes smoothly it wouldnt be able to fill the space created by mig 21 and mig 27

Actually that is possible even before 2025, it just depends on when the new fighters (LCA, Rafale and FGFA) will come in. But the 42 figure is not important anyway, since the new addition and upgrade of multi role fighter will multiply the capability by far.

 

[sancho]

Yes they are related but not same

They are, if we are talking about decisions in the defence field, since it only means that MoD as part of the GoI is in policy paralysis. Which is not the case here, since the issue is the cost escalation from the Russian side, which is not resolved so far and until that changed, the supply is on hold.

 

[ziaulislam]

Actually that is possible even before 2025, it just depends on when the new fighters (LCA, Rafale and FGFA) will come in. But the 42 figure is not important anyway, since the new addition and upgrade of multi role fighter will multiply the capability by far.

well, its not important of course unless india really wants to maintain a strong position in the region.
300 su, around 100 LCAs, 120 mig/mirages,100+/- Rafale,100 jaugers and 30-40 FGFA is the best case scenrio by 2025 which translates into 33-35 sq. and this is the best case scenrio.
i am more sketic about how many LCA and FGFA will come by 2025 as even though LCA is good plan IAF doesnt seems to like it..
secondly is the handling ability of HAL..can it handle manufacturing of SUs,LCAs,RAFALE and FGFA all at the same time and switching between production itself will be an issue.
it might be possible but a hard task especially when in india transparency makes the whole process alot slower

 

[Agent_47]

well, its not important of course unless india really wants to maintain a strong position in the region.
300 su, around 100 LCAs, 120 mig/mirages,100+/- Rafale,100 jaugers and 30-40 FGFA is the best case scenrio by 2025 which translates into 33-35 sq. and this is the best case scenrio.
i am more sketic about how many LCA and FGFA will come by 2025 as even though LCA is good plan IAF doesnt seems to like it..
secondly is the handling ability of HAL..can it handle manufacturing of SUs,LCAs,RAFALE and FGFA all at the same time and switching between production itself will be an issue.
it might be possible but a hard task especially when in india transparency makes the whole process alot slower

I don't think so,if LCA and rafale goes as planned,we can achieve 42 sqd by 2025.
270 su30,120 LCA,120 Jaugar,20+ FGFA,50 M2K,60 MIG 29,126 Rafale =764 / 18 = 42 sqd.

 

[sancho]

well, its not important of course unless india really wants to maintain a strong position in the region.

It will, because the lower numbers of fighter will be countered by far higher capability of the bulk of the fleet. Today less IAF's multi role fighters are needed to do the same, that dedicated A2A and A2G fighters did in the past. So IAF will remain with the strong position anyway, since the ratio of multi role fighters to dedicated strike fighter will be changed dramatically in the next few years. Till 2022 the estimates call for 34 x squads of MKI, Rafale, LCA and upgraded Mig 29 / Mirage 2000, next to 6 x dedicated strike fighter squads of Jaguars (not included FGFAs squad and maybe Mig 27 UPG squads in 2nd line). Today we only have 8 x MKI squads, while the bulk of the Mirage and Migs still awaits the upgrades to full 4th gen multi role capability, while the rest of the fleet are only old gen A2A or A2G fighters. So it's not the numbers that makes the difference for IAF, but the addition of capability!

 

[Killswitch]

HAL should keep it simple:

Basic trainer: Give it up, the IAF isnt going to wait 5 years for the HTT

IJT: Get it ready in a year or give it up, the IAF cant wait forever

LUH: Hurry up already

MRTA: Should probably be crapped and replaced with a C130J line

LCA: pump them out
MKI: pump them out
Rafale: get ready to pump them out