HAL/NAL Regional Transport Aircraft (RTA) - India's Regional Airliner Programme

[Chanakya's_Chant]

National Civil Aircraft programme targets 2020
By SP's Special Correspondent

February 2, 2015: At Aero India this year, the NAL-HAL National Civil Aircraft programme could have fresh contours, with officialy likely to scout fresh partnerships in taking the ambitious project forward. As reported earlier by SP's, in the next six-seven years, the programme hopes to ready its first platform -- a 100-seat civil passenger jet for Indian service and exports. A team from HAL and NAL made a presentation in 2013 to the Planning Commission, where it was decided that HAL would be lead integrator on the programme, along with the National erAeronautics Laboratory (NAL). Modalities of a consortium or joint venture have also been formalised. According to outgoing HAL chairman R.K. Tyagi, the NCAD programme envisages an investment of Rs 7500 crore — Rs 4,500 crore in design and Rs 3,000 crore for prototype production. Former President Dr APJ Abdul Kalam, who has thrown his weight being the programme, says, "There are opportunities and challenges such as developing 100-seat passenger jet which could be taken up by youngsters like you." A host of private sector companies are expected to be part of the programme. The National Aerospace Laboratory (NAL) in Bengaluru will play a crucial role in bringing the aircraft platform together. According to NAL, "The design and development of National Civil Aircraft will be carried out by a core team at NAL in configuration design, systems engineering, definition of subsystems, integration/flight testing and programme management. NAL will also be responsible for undertaking the detailed engineering design for the new aircraft." NAL has conducted several extensive seminars in the last two years with Russian and American expert groups on moving the project forward.

National Civil Aircraft programme targets 2020
- SP’s Exculsive
HAL to issue RFP for regional aircraft engines

 

[sancho]

Will wait sir.
both post and final score

Score 3:0 for my team , for what you suggested take a look at this:

NAL RTA 70 - twin prop engined (most likely from P&W), high wing design, with winglets, glass cockpit and modern avionics
Airbus C295W - twin prop engined from P&W, high wing design, with winglets, glass cockpit and modern avionics

NAL RTA 70 - lenght 27m, wingspan 29m, cabin height 1.9m (+ 0,9m cargo hold), cabin width 2.8m
Airbus C295W - lenght 24.5m, wingspan 25.8m, cabin height 1.9m, cabin width 2.7m

NAL RTA 70 - produced by HAL and possibly TATA / Mahindra
Airbus C295W - produced by Airbus and TATA

So we already have the military version on offer today and if we would use that and the licence production to our advantage, we could cut the development time and costs by far, by using either the C295W as the base to a RTA 70 modification (basically re-designed fuselage and rear section by deleting the ramp again), or by using of the shelf parts (cockpit section, avionics, wings, engines, winglets, vertical tail), not to mention that TATA and Airbus should be highly interested in participating in the RTA development as a partner, when the potential is not only for 40 / 56 aircrafts for the IAF, but 100+ for the civil market, which could be available far earlier than 2022.

@sancho, this plane seems far more suited to the Avro replacement then the MTA doesn't it? From what I understand the Avros in the IAF is not used for military airlift missions really but more as a transport for senior personnel and such. Thus the C-295/C-27J with a rear cargo door was always overkill. If it's just about flying personnel around then the RTA seems ideal.

No doubt about that, once because both are similar civil aircraft designs with twin prop engine config, but also because the MTA is simply far too big (cabin taken from the IL76) to be operated in basic logistical support.
The reason why the Avros were not used that much, was the design again, which has obviousl limitations in cargo transport. That's why a C295 or IL112 would be able to do more, while keeping the operational costs low, contrary to a C27J, let alone MTA. And as I said in the other thread, IAF is increasing it's capabilities in the transport area, the future low end, basically should be what the An32 is today. At the same time, tactical roles are already diverted to medium class aircrafts like the C130J and in future MTA, so you can't look at the Avro and say that's what the benchmark is for IAF and that's where the DM might have made a mistake in his analysis of the situation too.

 

[anant_s]

Score 3:0 for my team

So we already have the military version on offer today and if we would use that and the licence production to our advantage, we could cut the development time and costs by far, by using either the C295W as the base to a RTA 70 modification (basically re-designed fuselage and rear section by deleting the ramp again), or by using of the shelf parts (cockpit section, avionics, wings, engines, winglets, vertical tail), not to mention that TATA and Airbus should be highly interested in participating in the RTA development as a partner, when the potential is not only for 40 / 56 aircrafts for the IAF, but 100+ for the civil market, which could be available far earlier than 2022.

Now that is interesting. If an offer/possibility exists for modifying a mature platform already exists with an Indian manufacturer having established facility, it actually might be a good idea to try it out. Moreover the capabilities too are quite similar and offcourse the biggest plus, timely delivery can be ensured and with commonality in spares, maintenance too could be cost effective.
However someone has to convince private players regarding volume of orders.

 

[jarves]

First they should complete Saras and then talk about RTA.They were talking about lying PT1 last year but no reports yet.

 

[gslv mk3]

NAL RTA 70 - twin prop engined (most likely from P&W), high wing design, with winglets, glass cockpit and modern avionics

I think a low wing turbofan is also being considered

 

[sancho]

Now that is interesting. If an offer/possibility exists for modifying a mature platform already exists with an Indian manufacturer having established facility, it actually might be a good idea to try it out. Moreover the capabilities too are quite similar and offcourse the biggest plus, timely delivery can be ensured and with commonality in spares, maintenance too could be cost effective.
However someone has to convince private players regarding volume of orders.

That's up to the MoD / Government to see the larger picture and benefits, but as long as they limit their view on what each force / company wants individually, instead of giving proper guidance for the improvement of the aviation industry, that's not going to happen.

IAF needs at least 16 + 40 C295W
BSF had seleced the C295 before, but the deal was never fixed
ICG needs MPAs where the C295W again would fit perfectly

=> Combine these orders and you get easily get 70 to 80 aircrafts
=> If IN takes the same MPA too, you have 80 to 90
=> combine it with the RTA development and we are talking about several hundreds of these aircrafts that would be produced in India. That potential is enough to convince privat players as well as foreign vendors, but it's on us to create the potential.

I think a low wing turbofan is also being considered

Yes, if I'm not wrong the first idea was a high wing aircraft with 2 different engine configs, then they moved to the RTA low wing with prop engines and a proper civil airliner for the regional market. That however would be a complete new development without any commonality to the RTA 70 and the initial idea was to get maximum commonality to reduce costs, so they already are making things more complicated again.
I once said, that we could take the same RTA prop & jet engined idea and implement it into the MTA development:

One aircraft, different engines for more variety of use and with some modifications of the fuselage and rear section, you can make a civil airline out of it, with more than 100 seats. The fact that the MTA cabin is based on the IL76 cabin increases the potential even more, since the large diameter would offer enough space for the cabin and a cargo hold below.
But then again, this is "just" a joint development and the pride factor of developing an indigenous RTA or civil airliner is obviously higher and that's where we will get stuck again.