HAL LCH| Updates and Discussions

[itachiii]

Sri Lankan Air Force has officially requested for the purchase of 20 LCHs : Prasun K. Sengupta

any links ?

 

[Gessler]

any links ?

Blogger: TRISHUL - Post a Comment

Last reply by Sengupta.

 

[Dillinger]

When are they going to put EYES on this thing ?

Haven't anyone yet demanded a RADAR on the LCH ? There seems to be no plans for doing it either. What am I missing ?

No one has asked for the integration of a millimetric band radar (although the HELINA will have a millimetric band seeker); quite simply because the MoD, the forces and the OEM have, as always, not sat down and drawn up a concrete plan that meets the requirements of the forces and charts out a plan for the future growth and effective utilization of the LCH (much like the Astra programme never included a parallel effort to create a SR-SAM spin-off).

A mast mounted radar (Millimetric band system because you want low emitted power and an extremely narrow pencil beam mainlobe) will require modifications and the LCH simply does not have the real estate to carry a podded millimetric sensor suite without compromising its ability to carry adequate armaments.

Blogger: TRISHUL - Post a Comment

Last reply by Sengupta.

As welcome as that news is, we are yet to put the bird though its paces ourselves. We can hardly fix a time-table with the Lankans on this let alone stick to one.

 

[MokshaVimukthi]

No one has asked for the integration of a millimetric band radar (although the HELINA will have a millimetric band seeker); quite simply because the MoD, the forces and the OEM have, as always, not sat down and drawn up a concrete plan that meets the requirements of the forces and charts out a plan for the future growth and effective utilization of the LCH (much like the Astra programme never included a parallel effort to create a SR-SAM spin-off).

A mast mounted radar (Millimetric band system because you want low emitted power and an extremely narrow pencil beam mainlobe) will require modifications and the LCH simply does not have the real estate to carry a podded millimetric sensor suite without compromising its ability to carry adequate armaments.

Then I would squarely blame the IA for this oversight. They should have requested addition of this and provided funds to HAL to show their intent and faith. Especially since they have ordered more LCH than IAF.

A Nose mounted Radar is very much possible and it requires minimum re-engineering.

 

[Water Car Engineer]

I hope something of the sort is arranged in the next marks.

 

[Dillinger]

Then I would squarely blame the IA for this oversight. They should have requested addition of this and provided funds to HAL to show their intent and faith. Especially since they have ordered more LCH than IAF.

A Nose mounted Radar is very much possible and it requires minimum re-engineering.

A nose mounted radar will require re-engineering too, as to whether it would be easier than a mast mounted sensor, well that is a question which only the OEM can answer.

As to who's fault it is, the IA cannot simply give the OEM money and ask them to integrate a sensor, its not nearly that easy. The problem is systemic, the OEM and DPSUs are ineffective when it comes to working with the forces, the forces have no section which is specifically meant to manage projects (they have no program managers they can set to the task) and the MoD has, as always, not done its job.

No matter who you put at the helm; the problem, being systemic in nature, will continue till you overhaul the mechanisms and processes. Besides the OEM pitched it originally as a IAF centric project and then conveniently forgot that we might need it to do more than shooting down drones.

 

[MokshaVimukthi]

A nose mounted radar will require re-engineering too, as to whether it would be easier than a mast mounted sensor, well that is a question which only the OEM can answer.

As to who's fault it is, the IA cannot simply give the OEM money and ask them to integrate a sensor, its not nearly that easy. The problem is systemic, the OEM and DPSUs are ineffective when it comes to working with the forces, the forces have no section which is specifically meant to manage projects (they have no program managers they can set to the task) and the MoD has, as always, not done its job.

No matter who you put at the helm; the problem, being systemic in nature, will continue till you overhaul the mechanisms and processes. Besides the OEM pitched it originally as a IAF centric project and then conveniently forgot that we might need it to do more than shooting down drones.

How do you shoot down drone with a radar ? .......... its ridiculous to depend on vision. What happens at night.

How on earth can we put this 18 Million $ Helicopter to good use if it does not even have a radar ?

Akash missile is a FAR better option, its cheaper and effective and efficient.

 

[indiatester]

How do you shoot down drone with a radar ? .......... its ridiculous to depend on vision. What happens at night.

How on earth can we put this 18 Million $ Helicopter to good use if it does not even have a radar ?

Akash missile is a FAR better option, its cheaper and effective and efficient.

Is the purpose of a helicopter air defence?

 

[MokshaVimukthi]

Is the purpose of a helicopter air defence?

A Sword is used for both Defence and Offence, is it not ? ............ its true for all weapons.

 

[Dillinger]

How do you shoot down drone with a radar ? .......... its ridiculous to depend on vision. What happens at night.

How on earth can we put this 18 Million $ Helicopter to good use if it does not even have a radar ?

Akash missile is a FAR better option, its cheaper and effective and efficient.

I am not the one putting forth that argument. Apparently the IAF is. At the moment the only guided munition the IAF is looking at is PARS 3, which depends upon target acquisition from the helos passive IR and tele CCD.

As to whether the LCH should have a millimetric radar sensor, of course it should, while the night vision and optical sensors are very well capable of maintaining the LCH's combat efficiency at night the radar (you know, the emissions of a millimetric radar like the longbow is extremely difficult to spot even with a RWR) is still essential if the IA wants a heavy hitter (the platform was never designed with the IA in mind, at least not for the role the IA would need it in) and so the OEM may have to undertake time consuming modifications (much like in the case of the naval LCA).

Is the purpose of a helicopter air defence?

Air defense against what? When has a helo been used for air defense, air defense means defending the airspace against hostiles and a helo cannot compete with a true blue combat aircraft. So did we design a combat helo to shoot down other helos and drones; quite wasteful, no?

 

[MokshaVimukthi]

I am not the one putting forth that argument. Apparently the IAF is. At the moment the only guided munition the IAF is looking at is PARS 3, which depends upon target acquisition from the helos passive IR and tele CCD.

As to whether the LCH should have a millimetric radar sensor, of course it should, while the night vision and optical sensors are very well capable of maintaining the LCH's combat efficiency at night the radar (you know, the emissions of a millimetric radar like the longbow is extremely difficult to spot even with a RWR) is still essential if the IA wants a heavy hitter (the platform was never designed with the IA in mind, at least not for the role the IA would need it in) and so the OEM may have to undertake time consuming modifications (much like in the case of the naval LCA).

Air defense against what? When has a helo been used for air defense, air defense means defending the airspace against hostiles and a helo cannot compete with a true blue combat aircraft. So did we design a combat helo to shoot down other helos and drones; quite wasteful, no?

What is surprising is no body seems to be raising this question. Not even on defence forums.

I am specifically talking about the IA, not the IAF since IA has ordered more LCH than the IAF. IA should have been the one seeking additions.

 

[Dillinger]

What is surprising is no body seems to be raising this question. Not even on defence forums.

I am specifically talking about the IA, not the IAF since IA has ordered more LCH than the IAF. IA should have been the one seeking additions.

Eventually they will get around to it and when they do, well either the project will get delayed or the IA will accept the LCH as it is with a MLU fitment of the radar, OR the IA will push for more Apache Longbows.

 

[indiatester]

Air defense against what? When has a helo been used for air defense, air defense means defending the airspace against hostiles and a helo cannot compete with a true blue combat aircraft. So did we design a combat helo to shoot down other helos and drones; quite wasteful, no?

That was what I was thinking. But when @MokshaVimukthi said that it needs radar. I could not figure out why it was needed unless it was trying to track and pursue other aircraft.

 

[Dillinger]

That was what I was thinking. But when @MokshaVimukthi said that it needs radar. I could not figure out why it was needed unless it was trying to track and pursue other aircraft.

@MokshaVimukthi is referring to a millimetric-wave radar like the Longbow sensor on the Apache. The radar being referred to here is not meant for engaging other aircraft. Instead, it is meant to detect ground targets under all conditions and then provide target acquisition for a radar-guided "fire and forget" missile.

 

[MokshaVimukthi]

@MokshaVimukthi is referring to a millimetric-wave radar like the Longbow sensor on the Apache. The radar being referred to here is not meant for engaging other aircraft. Instead, it is meant to detect ground targets under all conditions and then provide target acquisition for a radar-guided "fire and forget" missile.

Also to take down drones.