Hafiz saeed to challenge US bounty in international court

[Vinod2070]

Its interesting that most here are not defending the person "HS" but the "process".

I could guess why they don't want to openly "Defend the person". Many live in the West and with internet being monitored one never knows what may come to haunt one and where one may land up.

Good to maintain a semblance of deniability. However flimsy and however half cooked and however too clever by half.

My best guess: HS has a remaining lifespan less than an average fruitfly now. He should create a will and plan for a successor.

 

[fd24]

We are going in circles. India claims HS is guilty but has not provided sufficient evidence. It is not up to him to prove his innocence, it is up to the prosecution to prove his guilt.

Without evidence, there is no conviction. Except in the media.

I am in agreement with you. I dont want in any way to defend or protect this guy - i think evidence must be provided by India to prove they at least have a case. A dossier of up to 1600 pages and not one page pointing to his involvement? Doesnt make sense - surely their must be some sort of disclosure?
Come to think of it with all the media circus having a field day and discussing so much in the public - would he now get a fair trial ANYWHERE?

 

[Vinod2070]

I am in agreement with you. I dont want in any way to defend or protect this guy - i think evidence must be provided by India to prove they at least have a case. A dossier of up to 1600 pages and not one page pointing to his involvement? Doesnt make sense - surely their must be some sort of disclosure?
Come to think of it with all the media circus having a field day and discussing so much in the public - would he now get a fair trial ANYWHERE?

So much concern for fair trial for a terrorist?

And none for the thousands of his victims?

His ilk only has contempt for this "fair trial" under "man made imperfect" rules and you know that.

The "doctrine of necessity" (with which you are only too familiar) demands that saving lives is more important than providing "fair trial" to the like of OBL, HS and KSM.

 

[JayAtl]

Spare us the speech. As I wrote earlier, I am not defending the person, but the due process. India has not provided the evidence. Case closed.

Any intelligent argument is always a speech for you. You can't erase your duplicity here. You came on your high horse, screaming "show me where he was convicted in ANY COURT". I did so and you changed the goal post to " evidence was not there". You do your country of origin no favors with such blatant support of world recognized terror heads, even if you now try to put the shroud of claimed "due process" around it.

I am in agreement with you. I dont want in any way to defend or protect this guy - i think evidence must be provided by India to prove they at least have a case. A dossier of up to 1600 pages and not one page pointing to his involvement? Doesnt make sense - surely their must be some sort of disclosure?
Come to think of it with all the media circus having a field day and discussing so much in the public - would he now get a fair trial ANYWHERE?

Tell us where you found the dossier to read ? you seem to know what was in all 1600 pages and other evidentiary materials submitted to Pakistan. Enlighten us with the facts behind your claim. Your last sentence says more about your real intent than your claim made of no evidence was provided.

 

[vsdoc]

He has been implicated by two accused, both Pakistanis, in two separate courts of law.

The burden of providing the evidence to the contrary lies with Pakistan if they want to protect him (and many more as yet unnamed big shots - if he decides to squeal).

For the rest of the world, he has been proven guilty. And there is now a 10 million dollar bounty on his head.

Will Pakistan EVER allow him to be taken alive?

 

[Developereo]

Any intelligent argument is always a speech for you. You can't erase your duplicity here. You came on your high horse, screaming "show me where he was convicted in ANY COURT". I did so and you changed the goal post to " evidence was not there". You do your country of origin no favors with such blatant support of world recognized terror heads, even if you now try to put the shroud of claimed "due process" around it.

No change of tune. The claim was that he was already convicted and I demanded to know the details of this so-called conviction. I suggest you spend some time talking to a lawyer to understand why a criminal conviction based purely on hearsay without evidence is a sham.

In other words, I am still waiting for evidence of a proper criminal conviction.

 

[vsdoc]

No change of tune. The claim was that he was already convicted and I demanded to know the details of this so-called conviction. I suggest you spend some time talking to a lawyer to understand why a criminal conviction based purely on hearsay without evidence is a sham.

In other words, I am still waiting for evidence of a proper criminal conviction.

Look who is changing the goalposts now.

No wonder I asked you WHY you wanted the link.

Thanks for vindicating my earlier impression.

Not worth the effort.

 

[JayAtl]

No change of tune. The claim was that he was already convicted and I demanded to know the details of this so-called conviction. I suggest you spend some time talking to a lawyer to understand why a criminal conviction based purely on hearsay without evidence is a sham.

In other words, I am still waiting for evidence of a proper criminal conviction.

As I said your duplicity is for everyone to see if they read a few pages here. If you want to change the goal to evidence, plenty provided in headley case and the 1600 pages that was a cumulative information and intelligence gathering with help of several international law enforcement agencies. The dossier was also shared with foreign govt' which seemed to convince heads of countries including yours ( Aus) that Pakistan needed to bring these then stateless actors and now bastions of " due procees" individuals to convictions in court.

By your insistence to be blind to this, you do no disservice to me, India or America - you just make sure that pakistan continues to fester . True patriot

 

[Developereo]

Look who is changing the goalposts now.

No wonder I asked you WHY you wanted the link.

Thanks for vindicating my earlier impression.

Not worth the effort.

What change? Have you provided a link to a proper criminal conviction?

Didn't think so.

As I said your duplicity is for everyone to see if they read a few pages here. If you want to change the goal to evidence, plenty provided in headley case and the 1600 pages that was a cumulative information and intelligence gathering with help of several international law enforcement agencies. The dossier was also shared with foreign govt' which seemed to convenience heads of countries including yours ( Aus) that Pakistan needed to bring these then stateless actors and now bastions of " due procees" individuals to convictions in court.

By your insistence to be blind to this, you do no disservice to me, India or America - you just make sure that pakistan continues to fester . True patriot

You clearly do not understand the difference between indictment and conviction. It's sad that a delusional troll who lacks basic understanding of English, law and logic dares to use the word "intelligent" for himself.

I have been more patient with your shrill rants than the Chinese who routinely dispatch you without ceremony. Perhaps I should follow their lead.

 

[JayAtl]

You clearly do not understand the difference between indictment and conviction. It's sad that a delusional troll who lacks basic understanding of English, law and logic dares to use the word "intelligent" for himself.

I have been more patient with your shrill rants than the Chinese who routinely dispatch you without ceremony. Perhaps I should follow their lead.

ah, where is the goal post now? First it was show me any conviction- I did. Then it moved to show me where the evidence was in place- I did and now we are back to conviction? The problem is you are not used to be called out on the mat about your ever changing claims. Yeah - you should follow suit as the Chinese. birds of feather ... and all.

 

[Developereo]

ah, where is the goal post now? First it was show me any conviction- I did. Then it moved to show me where the evidence was in place- I did and now we are back to conviction? The problem is you are not used to be called out on the mat about your ever changing claims. Yeah - you should follow suit as the Chinese. birds of feather ... and all.

Wrong. The claim was that he was already convicted in India and I demanded a link of the conviction to judge the validity of the claim. Upon viewing the details, it became clear it was a kangaroo court verdict, hence the "conviction" was a sham.

Once again, you don't have to trust me. Ask any lawyer if a criminal conviction for murder or terrorism can be issued without evidence.

 

[JayAtl]

Wrong. The claim was that he was already convicted in India and I demanded a link of the conviction to judge the validity of the claim. Upon viewing the details, it became clear it was a kangaroo court verdict, hence the "conviction" was a sham.

Once again, you don't have to trust me. Ask any lawyer if a criminal conviction for murder or terrorism can be issued without evidence.

Have a nice day... the bold of 'ANY' was my add on below:

Once again, I am waiting to see where ANY court has found him guilty on Mumbai.

 

[Developereo]

Have a nice day... the bold of 'ANY' was my add on below:

As usual, your deception will not work. You quoted only part of the post. Here's the full post (with bold added by me now).

Read the context.



No, the claim was that he has already been tried and found guilty in court, presumably Indian court. Pakistan is following due process. If the evidence doesn't stack up, then the accused go free.

Once again, I am waiting to see where ANY court has found him guilty on Mumbai.

and before that

He urges people to resist Indian rule in Kashmir and is clearly influential enough to motivate large numbers of people.

I am not say whether he is guilty or innocent, but that determination should be made by a court of law following due process. Indians may believe in hysterical trial-by-media, but that's not the way things work in the rest of the world.



Can you post a court ruling declaring HS guilt of Mumbai?

 

[JayAtl]

As usual, your deception will not work. You quoted only part of the post. Here's the full post (with bold added by me now).

what does the bold have to do with the fact he was convicted? In the English language when one makes a statement that show me ANY ( capitalizes the ANY for emphasis) , it means show me a single instance of where he has been found guilty in ANY court. What Pakistan was doing was not the emphasis.

here is irony of your judicial system. They convicted the Mafia organization (LET- JUD) as a whole for being the Mafia- but let the Mafia boss go. and continue to disregard what they ( your own court) said of laws this guy has to follow. And it is that govt, law and court you want us to believe will provide real justice.

I'll do you a favor and let you have the last word. after all as I said , the disservice to one's country due to blind allegiance to ego before logic and adhering to what's best for one's country , is not my burden to lift.

 

[fd24]

So much concern for fair trial for a terrorist?

And none for the thousands of his victims?

His ilk only has contempt for this "fair trial" under "man made imperfect" rules and you know that.

The "doctrine of necessity" (with which you are only too familiar) demands that saving lives is more important than providing "fair trial" to the like of OBL, HS and KSM.

Read my post in particular my first sentence. I don't wish to protect or defend his actions.
I will repeat what i previously posted. If there is evidence that he is a scoundrel and was involved in the associated crimes then India must forward the evidence to show us he is guilty. If this happens and is confirmed to be correct THEN your second question is a justifiable one, however until then one is jumping the gun.
You are speculating without evidence and in fact by speculating you and the media are jeopardizing the potential case against him.
When innocent people are killed of course emotions are running high - when i saw what happened in Mumbai i was angered. Any human of any creed would be and to bring those responsible to face justice is paramount but you have to accept the evidence and facts have to be clear and not jumping to a "kangaroo court scenario".