Gujaratis are the single most influential ethnicity in South Asian history

[Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8]

Quoting wikipedia??

Here is what Stanley Wolpert's biography of Jinnah (arguably the best Jinnah biography) says:

View attachment 733203

Jinnah's ancestors fled Persia some time between 13th to 16th century




Where did you get that from??? Khojas of South Asia are ethnic persians

No please see the reference that I posted...It seems the Jinnah's converted into the Khoja community rather than being descendant of the ones that migrated from Iran

 

[Varunastra]

Correct, Jinnah (and all Khoja Shia) has Lohana ancestry.

Btw, do you realize the people you listed are all very genetically different?

Lohana (like Jinnah) have high Indo-Aryan and BMAC ancestry.

Patels have very high native adivasi ancestry along with small but significant Indus ancestry.

Gandhi and Modi have high native adivasi ancestry with tiny Indo-Aryan contribution (less than 5%).

Parsi genetic composition is 70-75% Iranian, the rest is Patel like.

You seem to have a fascination with white skin/caucasians/aryan definition by nazis in most your posts.
Tell me according to you are bangladeshis also this aryans you speak of?

 

[Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8]

That is nonsense. We don't marry cousins. It's allowed, I have nothing against it but it's just not practiced. I know of no couple who are cousins.

Cousin marriage maybe LOCAL tradition for some people in certain regions of Southern India and Pakistan.

Yeah Bangladeshi Muslims donot have cousin marriages but cousin marriage is big in South Asian Muslim communities peaking at 50%+ rate in Pakistan..Non-Brahmin Bengali Hindus are also not that much caste endogamous...but that doesnot discount the fact that majority of the marriages among Hindus are caste endogamous

 

[M. Sarmad]

No please see the reference that I posted...It seems the Jinnah's converted into the Khoja community rather than being descendant of the ones that migrated from Iran

Wikipedia is no reliable source.
As for you saying "it seems....", that's the speculation I was talking about
Jinnah's own claim that his paternal ancestor was a Rajput from Sahiwal, Punjab who married into the Ismaili Khojas and settled in Kathiawar is more plausible though

 

[Maira La]

You seem to have a fascination with white skin/caucasians/aryan definition by nazis in most your posts.
Tell me according to you are bangladeshis also this aryans you speak of?

Where do you see fascination of white skin? I just categorized the listed persons based on their genetic composition.

 

[Varunastra]

Where do you see fascination of white skin? I just categorized the listed persons based on their genetic composition.

Like you don't say aryan, pakistan Caucasian, indian black ganga people in every other post you throw. It was you in other post where you said Pakistan had some claim on Ashoka cause he had more aryan blood compared to "black" Indians.
Tell me don't shy away now, what's the genetic composition of a Bangladeshi like you i.e how much Caucasian aryan you are compared to us "black" indians.

 

[Maira La]

Like you don't say aryan, pakistan Caucasian, indian black ganga people in every other post you throw. It was you in other post where you said Pakistan had some claim on Ashoka cause he had more aryan blood compared to "black" Indians.

Do you deny Indo-Aryans existed? That South Asia is a melting pot of Indo-Aryans, IVC, BMAC and black adivasi? Ever taken a look at recent genetic studies on South Asia and its genetic history?

Tell me don't shy away now, what's the genetic composition of a Bangladeshi like you i.e how much Caucasian aryan you are compared to us "black" indians.

I don't dissociate us from other people living along the Ganges. Just have some extra East Asian.

 

[Mujahid Memon]

Quaid-E-Azam
Mahatma Gandhi
Sardar Vallabh Bhai Patel
Ahmed Deedat---greatest Muslim preacher in the English language
Azim Premji
Narendra Modi

They have shaped South Asia more than any other people over the last 120 years

You forgot Abdul Sattar Edhi

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Hinduism is also culture and legacy and not just religion

All religions by practice develop culture, legacy and even become associated with geography over time.

 

[Varunastra]

Do you deny Indo-Aryans existed? That South Asia is a melting pot of Indo-Aryans, IVC, BMAC and black adivasi? Ever taken a look at recent genetic studies on South Asia and its genetic history?



I don't dissociate us from other people living along the Ganges. Just have some extra East Asian.

Indo-Aryans are all nobleman from India. If you are talking about steppe ancestry it'll be miniscule compared to native dna for all south asians be it India or Pakistan.
Still I want to hear from you since you like bringing it up so much and are claiming knowledge in ancestry related matters, what's the dna composition for a Bangladeshi like you? How much in your own terms "black indian" are you along with other components? Don't divert from this question. Vague answers like I don't dissociate from Ganges won't do.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Ever taken a look at recent genetic studies on South Asia and its genetic history?

You seem to be well read on this. Links to latest studies for laymen?

 

[Maira La]

Indo-Aryans are all nobleman from India. If you are talking about steppe ancestry it'll be miniscule compared to native dna for all south asians be it India or Pakistan.

So you know about Steppe ancestry and yet pretend Indo-Aryan is a local concept and has nothing to do with a racial group. Strange.

Indo-Aryan is not miniscule in all South Asians. It varies wildly among South Asians. I think it peaks in Pakistan at 40-60% if you consider Indo-Aryans as Sintashta + BMAC superstrate. The rest of their ancestry would be ancient Iranian (proto-IVC) with some minority native ancestry (max 15% among Punjabis).

Native DNA is highest among Dalits and South Indian tribals, who have no Steppe ancestry.

Let's not pretend entire continent is one race/ethnicity.

Still I want to hear from you since you like bringing it up so much and are claiming knowledge in ancestry related matters, what's the dna composition for a Bangladeshi like you? How much in your own terms "black indian" are you along with other components?

30-35% black indian, 40-45% neolithic farmer, 16-20% southeast asian, 5-9% indo-aryan, Roughly.

 

[Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8]

Indo European Steppe Ancestry DOESNOT peak beyond 30% in ANY south Asian ethnicity
Steppe Ancestry in each South Asian ethnicity...collated From Reich's Labs at Harvard..the foremost Human population genetics research Lab in the world...and foremost authority on Indian genetics


HIghest being Pakistani Pashtuns at 28% but it still peaks among Bhumihar Brahmans in Bihar at 25%


Below is an interactive map..go enjoy

RPubs - Steppe interactive

rpubs.com

 

[Maira La]

You seem to be well read on this. Links to latest studies for laymen?

I have a lot of interest in this topic. Though I don't read entire papers, I just check out the charts from the supplements as well as follow discussions by more knowledgeable people in boards like anthrogenica.

Here is one very comprehensive study on South Asian genetics: https://scholar.harvard.edu/vagheesh/publications/genomic-formation-south-and-central-asia
The ideas are constantly updated as new aDNA (ancient DNA) are discovered and consequently new papers released.

Btw, the adivasi population that I talk about in above posts and one that contributes the "Desi"ness to South Asians have been named AASI by the scientific community. It is still a "ghost population" in the models because no 100% AASI aDNA has been found, thanks to South Asian climate not being good for aDNA preservation. It peaks among Mundas (70% AASI + 30% nicobarese like) and Paniya (78% AASI + 22% neolithic farmer).
@UDAYCAMPUS

 

[Varunastra]

So you know about Steppe ancestry and yet pretend Indo-Aryan is a local concept and has nothing to do with a racial group. Strange.

Indo-Aryan is not miniscule in all South Asians. It varies wildly among South Asians. I think it peaks in Pakistan at 40-60% if you consider Indo-Aryans as Sintashta + BMAC superstrate. The rest of their ancestry would be ancient Iranian (proto-IVC) with some minority native ancestry (max 15% among Punjabis).

Native DNA is highest among Dalits and South Indian tribals, who have no Steppe ancestry.

Let's not pretend entire continent is one race/ethnicity.



30-35% black indian, 40-45% neolithic farmer, 16-20% southeast asian, 5-9% indo-aryan, Roughly.

Indo-Aryans(Aryans) are local. Steppe people moving into India has nothing to do with being an Arya(nobleman). You yourself are saying we are mixed, how can there be indo aryan racial group if there are no people with even 50% steppe ancestry in south Asia which you say is the sole factor of being an Arya?.
Good now I have in writing of you being majority black Indian like the rest of us, atleast keep that in mind before you spout your racism on caucasian/black in every post.