GRSE loses Philippine Frigate project to Hyundai

[Anjo]

With news of Hyundai Heavy Industries bagging the frigate project for the Philippine Navy coming out the last couple of days, more news came out about why GRSE failed in its bid. Its net financial contracting capacity was found to be below the requirement based on government procurement rules even after submitting a revised NFCC later on. My question here is that why didn't the Indian government at least step in to help GRSE? Aren't they a state owned company?

 

[Dandpatta]

^^^ Hopefully this will give a good kick to the govt of India to understand why, there needs to be a comprehensive, combined synergy between itself and its PSUs.

 

[Kraitcorp]

Philippines made the right choice.

Garden Reach Shipbuilders and Engineers Ltd Net Financial Capacity was insufficient and therefore not in compliance with Republic Act 9184 (Government Procurement Policy Board). A loss is a loss, we need to be better prepared next time.

Six companies are qualified to bid:
1) Navantia Sepi, Spain
2) Daewoo Shipbuilding and Marine Engineering Co. Ltd (DSME), South Korea
3) Hyundai Heavy Industries, Inc. (HHI), South Korea
4) Garden Reach Shipbuilders and Engineers Ltd. (GRSE),India
5) STX France SA.
6) STX Offshore and Shipbuilding, South Korea..

The Chinese weren't even in the race, We were the lowest bidder. We only failed based on "Net Financial Capacity".

Go troll somewhere else you pathetic Chinese troll.

 

[Anjo]

^^ Personally I was really looking forward to a Kamorta variant for the PN. It really was a bit careless on GRSE's part.

 

[Kraitcorp]

I am not sure about this but I think GRSE offered more goodies than the next competitors. Maybe Senior member can shed more light into this

Here is an earlier thread

https://defence.pk/threads/the-reas...uy-the-karmota-class-frigate-of-india.433600/

 

[Nilgiri]

^^ Personally I was really looking forward to a Kamorta variant for the PN. It really was a bit careless on GRSE's part.

Yes India will need to get better at this. Right now we are still suffering from a NPA and sluggish credit situation which means injecting liquidity by the govt is not easy (since it needs to be balanced with other priorities).

I feel India needs to develop a corpus of private financing provided by the major private companies themselves under a private bank/insurance type format so that all defence companies in India can succeed over time in foreign bidding and not have the rug pulled out from under their legs when it comes to capital requirements.

@PARIKRAMA @Abingdonboy @anant_s

@Anjo when was this document released btw?

 

[Ankit Kumar 002]

^^ Personally I was really looking forward to a Kamorta variant for the PN. It really was a bit careless on GRSE's part.

Well first congratulations to PH navy.

Coming to why GRSE wasn't helped ? Well its not the correct question. One thing which needs to be understood is the the reason " Net Financial Capability " is as good a reason as no reason.

GRSE has been building vessels and exporting few too with the same style of working.

Government of India did present " Government Guarantees " on behalf of GRSE , but yet the PH side stuck to the point that NET FINANCIAL CAPABILITY. If not this , there would have been another reason....

Putting some million USD in bank accounts of GRSE to show its assets is just not working. It would have been a waste on our side.


And the sad part is , if PH really thinks " Net Financial Capability " to an issue , PH will not be able to buy any Indian Product , including missiles which are produced by Public Sector.

And at the last , SK did had an advantage ( Pohang Corvette ) , they will not have this everywhere.

 

[Genesis]

Yes India will need to get better at this. Right now we are still suffering from a NPA and sluggish credit situation which means injecting liquidity by the govt is not easy (since it needs to be balanced with other priorities).

I feel India needs to develop a corpus of private financing provided by the major private companies themselves under a private bank/insurance type format so that all defence companies in India can succeed over time in foreign bidding and not have the rug pulled out from under their legs when it comes to capital requirements.

@PARIKRAMA @Abingdonboy @anant_s

These things are never like that. What is India to the Philippines? China has been selling major gear since the 80s, and yet today it is still hard unless it's a close Ally like Pakistan or a poorer country with no real connection to a superpower like Bangladesh. Occasionally, it can be a good military like Algeria, and Saudi Arabia, though those are rare. We are finding the UAV to be a bigger market, though that's because we are the only willing seller of those specific types of gear.

Look at Turkish deal with our HQ deal, superpower influence matter.

India just doesn't have much clout internationally. Korea being an US ally, and uses systems that are either American or based on Americans can be better integrated into an American scheme. If nothing else, it makes them more comfortable.

It's also a matter of prestige, you have to admit, buying Korean just sounds better.

India is getting into the weapons game now, you will see how this works. It's not the JF-17 and the like sucks, the arms trade is just a different ball game.

 

[Anjo]

Yes India will need to get better at this. Right now we are still suffering from a NPA and sluggish credit situation which means injecting liquidity by the govt is not easy (since it needs to be balanced with other priorities).

I feel India needs to develop a corpus of private financing provided by the major private companies themselves under a private bank/insurance type format so that all defence companies in India can succeed over time in foreign bidding and not have the rug pulled out from under their legs when it comes to capital requirements.

@PARIKRAMA @Abingdonboy @anant_s

@Anjo when was this document released btw?

The last page of this document says it was issued May 19th but recently just released to the public.

Well first congratulations to PH navy.

Coming to why GRSE wasn't helped ? Well its not the correct question. One thing which needs to be understood is the the reason " Net Financial Capability " is as good a reason as no reason.

GRSE has been building vessels and exporting few too with the same style of working.

Government of India did present " Government Guarantees " on behalf of GRSE , but yet the PH side stuck to the point that NET FINANCIAL CAPABILITY. If not this , there would have been another reason....

Putting some million USD in bank accounts of GRSE to show its assets is just not working. It would have been a waste on our side.


And the sad part is , if PH really thinks " Net Financial Capability " to an issue , PH will not be able to buy any Indian Product , including missiles which are produced by Public Sector.

And at the last , SK did had an advantage ( Pohang Corvette ) , they will not have this everywhere.

Normally I'd say so but as of right now the Pohang is a non issue. The Philippine Navy might not even accept it after an inspection earlier this year found a couple structural thus issues upping the refurbishing costs significantly higher than expected.

 

[Nilgiri]

These things are never like that. What is India to the Philippines? China has been selling major gear since the 80s, and yet today it is still hard unless it's a close Ally like Pakistan or a poorer country with no real connection to a superpower like Bangladesh. Occasionally, it can be a good military like Algeria, and Saudi Arabia, though those are rare. We are finding the UAV to be a bigger market, though that's because we are the only willing seller of those specific types of gear.

Look at Turkish deal with our HQ deal, superpower influence matter.

India just doesn't have much clout internationally. Korea being an US ally, and uses systems that are either American or based on Americans can be better integrated into an American scheme. If nothing else, it makes them more comfortable.

It's also a matter of prestige, you have to admit, buying Korean just sounds better.

India is getting into the weapons game now, you will see how this works. It's not the JF-17 and the like sucks, the arms trade is just a different ball game.



come on man, no need for that, delete these. Keep it classy.

India won the qualification tender on merit. If you have an issue with the Philippines qualitative selection process, take it up with them. If India cannot have streamlined capital financing/liquidity, thats another issue that India has to sort out next time.

The last page of this document says it was issued May 19th but recently just released to the public.

Ah ok thanks. I remember it being in the rumor mill earlier. But I think there still needs to be an official confirmation that this whole thing is off.....since maybe there was capital agreements brought in in the mean time. Lets wait and see.

 

[Genesis]

India won the qualification tender on merit. If you have an issue with the Philippines qualitative selection process, take it up with them. If India cannot have streamlined capital financing/liquidity, thats another issue that India has to sort out next time.

You are not in sales, anyone in sales knows you can be promised the moon and unless it's signed and sometimes executed, it doesn't mean jack.

Arms deals are always political. You don't have to believe me, but history shows you don't buy for no reason. Especially when, let's face it, mostly everyone who did partake have similar wares.

 

[Armani]

http://www.businesstoday.in/current...s-kerala-west-bengal-strike/story/236854.html

In Visakhapatnam, police took over 100 agitators into preventive custody, where the strike evoked a good response in the industrial areas of Gajuwaka and Auto nagar. Operations were hit in PSUs such as Visakhapatnam Steel Plant, Bharat Heavy Plate and Vessels, Hindustan Shipyard, NTPC's Simhadri Power Plant, Visakhapatnam Port Trust and private industrial units in Visakhapatnam as many of the workers joined the strike.

The Steel plant and the shipyard are on strike.

You're talking about Hindustan Shipyard in Vizag whereas GRSE is in Kolkata.

If you're gonna troll, atleast troll properly.

 

[Ankit Kumar 002]

@Nilgiri @Kraitcorp

Government of India was offering a small discount and Government Guarantee too. We couldn't have done anymore.

Its Sad GRSE was disqualified because it did not have a quoted amount of standing assets , something which South Korea had...

 

[Armani]

Well first congratulations to PH navy.

Coming to why GRSE wasn't helped ? Well its not the correct question. One thing which needs to be understood is the the reason " Net Financial Capability " is as good a reason as no reason.

GRSE has been building vessels and exporting few too with the same style of working.

Government of India did present " Government Guarantees " on behalf of GRSE , but yet the PH side stuck to the point that NET FINANCIAL CAPABILITY. If not this , there would have been another reason....

Putting some million USD in bank accounts of GRSE to show its assets is just not working. It would have been a waste on our side.


And the sad part is , if PH really thinks " Net Financial Capability " to an issue , PH will not be able to buy any Indian Product , including missiles which are produced by Public Sector.

And at the last , SK did had an advantage ( Pohang Corvette ) , they will not have this everywhere.

I agree - the Philippines has been building a strong defence relationship with Korea in recent times, including the purchase of the FA-50 Fighting Eagle jets - the Philippines' only fighter aircraft type. I doubt they'd let go on the opportunity to solidify the relationship further.

Can anyone post some data on the Hyundai offer for this tender? I wish to compare it to the Project-28 Kamorta...not that it's gonna help anything, just as a personal interest.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

Hyundai is just Too big a company

At least GRSE gave them good and tough competition

GRSE has its order book full with Indian Navy orders