Greece vs Turkiye Military Power : Tactical and Strategic Advantages

[BON PLAN]

Europe's first anti-radiation Drone .. Turkish KARGI

only a copy and paste of IAI Harpy drone. Shame on you ! naughty copier....

Even KORKUT 35 mm SPAAG with airbust ammo can intercept low speed SCALP-EG

can intercept only if this missile is detected. And SCALP is a very low flying stealth missile. No way you can detect it.

Radar range ? for what ?

MQ-9 doesnt carry long range missiles and guided Bombs
( only 12-25 km HELLFIRE missile and GBU-12 Paveway II laser guided Bomb ) ... so pathetic fire power


French Air Force MQ-9 Reaper has AN/APY-8 Lynx II Radar
View attachment 875221


superior Aselsan GaN based AESA Radar will be fitted to AKINCI in 2022
View attachment 875222


Also MQ-9 UCAV armed with only 12-25 km Missile and laser guided Bomb ..so pathetic
-- HELLFIRE
-- GBU-12 Paveway II

on the other hand superior AKINCI armed with 12-15-30-50-150-280 km Missile and laser guided Bombs , including SOM Cruise Missile
View attachment 875232

Turkish drone is a real commercial success. Congrats !

 

[MMM-E]

So it's strange you purchased S400 and ask for an ASTER purchase with such nice goodies.
Maybe these goodies are not so efficient. Or just made for the show.

380 km S400 is a strategic weapon and far better than 120 km SAMP-T and 160 km PAC-II

and Turkiye doesnt want to buy ASTER
in 2018 , Turkiye signed an agreement with EUROSAM to develop new AD System with ballistic missile interception capability


-- 380 km S400 to use against enemy AEWC , EW Aircrafts , Fighter Jets
-- 100 km SIPER block-0 to use against enemy Fighter Jets
( 150 km SIPER block-1 in 2024-2025 ) and SIPER block-2 with ballistic missile interception capability in 2027

-- HISAR-A and HISAR-O will protect S400 and SIPER from Cruise Missiles and anti-radiation Drones


Turkiye will have full of air defense umbrella with indigenous HISAR-A , HISAR-O and SIPER to protect all Turkish territory from Fighter Jets , Ballistic Missiles , Cruise Missiles and anti-radiation Drones

only 2 countries in EUROPE

Turkiye : HISAR-A , HISAR-O and SIPER
France : CROTALE-NG , MICA-VL and SAMP-T

 

[MMM-E]

only a copy and paste of IAI Harpy drone. Shame on you ! naughty copier....

Not copy but developing with full of indigenous subsystems such as navigation and automatic flight control system , software , warhead , RF Seeker, Engine, Booster, Link System, Propeller , Fuel Tank , etc


now Turkiye has better UCAV technologies than Israel
( TB-2 , ANKA , AKSUNGUR , AKINCI , KIZILELMA , KARGI , SIMSEK , GOKSUNGUR , ALPAGU , KARGU and many more )


and HARPY is so inferior to compare with KARGI

HARPY
Range : 200 km
NO datalink
NO SATCOM communication

KARGI
Range : 1.000 km
Datalink
SATCOM communication
home-of-jam capability


And Turkish GOKSUNGUR JEMSAH supersonic fake decoy Drone

Weight of less than 100 kg
Range of 300 km

GOKSUNGUR decoy Drone can be programmed in advance and is launched to enemy air defense positions before an air attack, deceiving the enemy air defense systems, reducing the casualties of friendly aircraft and allowing them to operate in survivability

low-cost decoy Drone for Suppression of Enemy Air Defense (SEAD) missions

Turkiye has its own KARGI , SIMSEK and GOKSUNGUR kamikaze Drones
SEAD (Suppression of Enemy Air Defenses)
DEAD (Destruction of Enemy Air Defenses)

Good luck to Enemy Air Defense Systems , They will need it

 

[MMM-E]

can intercept only if this missile is detected. And SCALP is a very low flying stealth missile. No way you can detect it.

SCALP Missile doesnt have terrain hugging capability
Flight altitude : 30-40 m

SOM Missile has terrain hugging capability
Flight altitude : less than 5 m



INTEGRETED RADAR SYSTEMS
Boeing E-7T AEWCs with 600 km PESA Radar 7/24 in the air to control all Aegean and Eastern Mediterranean

Early warning Radars to stay at 2.000-2.500 m in the mountains to detect all Cruise Missiles
also S400s 600 km BIG BIRD Radar will not stay at sea level

and KORKUT has 70 km Radar to detect cruise missiles


also We will protect S400s from the air in a possible conflict
AKINCI UCAV ( AESA Radar + 6 air to air missiles ) to stay in the air 7/24

 

[Akritas]

Radar range ? for what ?

French Air Force MQ-9 Reaper has AN/APY-8 Lynx II Radar
View attachment 875221

As usual you didn't answer......
And you don't answer, because you know that the range of the MQ-9 is superior from the AKinci.
MQ-9 has two types, the MQ-9A Reader and the MQ-9B Sea/Sky Guard.
As regards the radar, the new MQ-9 will have the new radar Leonardo Seaspray 7500E V2(range 320 N.M.) that replacing the AN/APY-8 Lynx II.
The range of the new radar of the MQ-9 will be.....350 N.M.
The range of Acinci radar is.....unknown......

General Atomics Integrates Sea Spray 7500E V2 radar onto MQ-9 - Naval News

GA-ASI has integrated the Leonardo Seaspray 7500E V2 multi-mode radar onto an MQ-9A Block 5 and performed its first test flight on Apr. 14.

www.navalnews.com

 

[MMM-E]

MQ-9 has two types, the MQ-9A Reader and the MQ-9B Sea/Sky Guard.
As regards the radar, the new MQ-9 will have the new radar Leonardo Seaspray 7500E V2(range 320 N.M.) that replacing the AN/APY-8 Lynx II.

I am talking about UCAV
France has MQ-9 Reaper with the AN/APY-8 Lynx II radar
and MQ-9 Reaper ( only 12-25 km missiles/laser guided Bombs ) ..... so pathetic

and the most important thing missile fire power , not radar range

AKINCI UCAV to carry long range cruise missiles to hit Warships , AD Systems
IIR and laser guided long range Bombs to hit Warships , AD Systems
100+ km air to air missiles to hit UAVs , Helicopters , Aircrafts

for example Greece buys MQ-9B Sea Guardian
on the other hand Turkiye has AKINCI ( in 2023 GaN based AESA Radar with 6 x GOKDOGAN air to air missiles ) to turn Greek MQ-9B Sea Guardian into crap of metal from 100 km away in a conflict

Eastern Mediterranean Turkiye's play zone to protect Turkish EEZ

AKINCI UCAV , AESA Radar , GOKDOGAN air to air missile

 

[MMM-E]

LOL. It's clear that all want to compete with your 70% inflation rate.

still dreaming about 70% inflation rate

in reality , Turkiye has enough money for all Turkish military projects ... no problem

Dozens of New UCAVs entered service in 2022
More T-625 and T-129 Helicopters in production line
New T-70 Blackhawk Helicopters enter service in 2022
T-929 ATAK-II heavy Attack Helicopter under production
HURJET and TFX Fighter Jets under production
2 KIZILELMA unmanned stealth Fighter Jets were produced in 2022
HISAR-A and HISAR-O AD Systems entered service in 2022
SIPER high altitude AD Systems with 600 km EIRS Early Warning AESA Radar in 2022
New Type-214 class AIP Submarine enter service in 2022
TCG ANADOLU light Aircraft Carrier enter service in 2022
ISTANBUL class Frigate works continues
4 BARBAROS class Frigates and 4 PREVEZE class Submarines under modernization
TCG DERYA Marine Supply Combat Support Ship
KTJ-3200 turbojet engine mass production in 2022 for SOM and ATMACA Cruise Missiles
Land based new version of ATMACA Anti-Ship Missile in 2022
BOZDOGAN and GOKDOGAN air to air Missiles enter service
in 2022 , Turkiye announced 40 new F-16V and 79 kits for VIPER modernization $6 billion
2nd batch of S400 on agenda ... ( $2,5 billion )

and many more ...



a few months ago FOINIKAS said that Turkiye doesnt have 10 AKINCI UCAV , but only 3

now 12 AKINCI UCAVs are in service and 20th AKINCI UCAV will be produced by the end of this year ..... even France has only 12 MQ-9 ... nothing else

as of 2022 , Turkiye has 200+ TB-2 , ANKA , AKSUNGUR and AKINCI UCAVs ( 4 x more than all Europe combined )


TB-2 UCAVs kill list ...
still tiny Greece dreaming to fight Turkiye

2 x Ilyushin IL-76
1 x Antonov AN-32
2x S-300
12 x Pantsir S1
2 x Kamov KA-52
3 x Sukhoi SU-22
2 x Mi-8
120+ Tanks
421+ Vehicles
18+ Aircrafts
8+ Radars
7+ Naval Ships
2+ Trains
60+ Air-Defence Systems ( BUK , TOR , OSA , etc )
280+ Missile Systems

Total: 857

https://twitter.com/x/status/1565491818699030529

 

[FuturePAF]

What about BVR combat ?

KIZILELMA unmanned stealth Fighter Jet to carry RAMJET powered GOKHAN long range air to air missiles in the Internal weapon station for stealth flight capability

100+ km GOKDOGAN air to air missile is ready
200+ km RAMJET powered GOKHAN long range air to air under development


stealth KIZILELMA with much lower RCS vs 4th gen F-15 , F-16V , Rafale with much bigger RCS

so stealth KIZILELMA to detect Rafale , MIG-29M2 , SU-35 , F-15 , F-16V before they detect KIZILELMA and then press the kill button and game over in BVR combat

Egypt and Greece in the region



KIZILELMA Block-II variant will have supersonic speed of mach 1,4 for dog fight

and KIZILELMA to open new horizons in dog fight through its advantages of unmanned combat and aggressive maneuverability with delta canard and vertical stabilizers

how could a human win when an AI can withstand G forces that no human could survive ?

AI would win non stop eventually


and F-35 sucks in dog fight

What is the state of Turkish Datalinks. Reports are that Greek EW was able to break the line with a Turkish Drone over or near the Aegean, and had the drone circling eventually forcing it to return to base.

Either way, I’m sure Turkish firms will deal with the challenge.

I hope the Block 2 Model is acquired by the PAF to support the PN. It would be a potent fighter to use alongside the J-10 under a manned-unmanned teaming strategy, allowing the use of direct like of sight control. Kizilelma could not only form the advanced stealthy wave of fighter escorts with the best Turkish BVR missiles, but other planes could be equipped with the best Turkish anti ship missiles to take out a potential Indian naval blockade.

It would probably be the best way to replace the naval mirages qualitatively while also maintain the quantitative numbers of fighter/bombers in the PAF, even if some of them are unmanned.

Any idea what the projected unit price of the Block 1 and Block 2 variant are expected to be?

Considering the PAF will be facing the Rafale and possibly the F-18 Hornet and eventually the F-35 it would be another theater the Turks could test the plane against real world challenges, and refine it better for their own use.

 

[MMM-E]

What is the state of Turkish Datalinks. Reports are that Greek EW was able to break the line with a Turkish Drone over or near the Aegean, and had the drone circling eventually forcing it to return to base.

Greek wet dream

I hope the Block 2 Model is acquired by the PAF to support the PN. It would be a potent fighter to use alongside the J-10 under a manned-unmanned teaming strategy, allowing the use of direct like of sight control. Kizilelma could not only form the advanced stealthy wave of fighter escorts with the best Turkish BVR missiles, but other planes could be equipped with the best Turkish anti ship missiles to take out a potential Indian naval blockade.

CAKIR New generation Cruise Missile​

it will use the most modern systems in the world
next-generation swarm technologies as well as artificial intelligence


For example, KIZILELMA unmanned stealth Fighter Jet to fire 4 CAKIR cruise missiles
The first one, with electronic jamming capability will go ahead, and the other 3 will follow behind it. The first one will confuse the air defense systems, and the 3 following will hit the Warship

There is not yet such a detailed mini Cruise Missile in the world

Range = 150 km
Diameter = 275 mm
Weight = 330 kg ( with booster )
Length = 4.1 m ( with booster )
Warhead = 70 kg
Speed = 0.75-0.85 Mach
Guidance = INS , IIR , RF , Hybrid (IIR+RF) Seeker , Radar Altimeter , Barometric Altimeter , Datalink

-- Network-centric warfare capability with Datalink
-- Sea skimming and terrain hugging
-- Next-generation swarm technologies
-- Artificial intelligence

 

[FuturePAF]

Greek wet dream

CAKIR New generation Cruise Missile​

it will use the most modern systems in the world
next-generation swarm technologies as well as artificial intelligence


For example, KIZILELMA unmanned stealth Fighter Jet to fire 4 CAKIR cruise missiles
The first one, with electronic jamming capability will go ahead, and the other 3 will follow behind it. The first one will confuse the air defense systems, and the 3 following will hit the Warship
View attachment 875920
View attachment 875921

There is not yet such a detailed mini Cruise Missile in the world

Range = 150 km
Diameter = 275 mm
Weight = 330 kg ( with booster )
Length = 4.1 m ( with booster )
Warhead = 70 kg
Speed = 0.75-0.85 Mach
Guidance = INS , IIR , RF , Hybrid (IIR+RF) Seeker , Radar Altimeter , Barometric Altimeter , Datalink

-- Network-centric warfare capability with Datalink
-- Sea skimming and terrain hugging
-- Next-generation swarm technologies
-- Artificial intelligence

Any plans for it to fit the longer range SOM missile, (for taking on Indian carrier battle groups)? The mini cruise missile looks promising when taking on smaller escorts.

Would also love to see the Kizilelma integrate a lift fan so that it can operate from the future Turkish LHD as well as austere bases.

 

[MMM-E]

Any idea what the projected unit price of the Block 1 and Block 2 variant are expected to be?

Considering the PAF will be facing the Rafale and possibly the F-18 Hornet and eventually the F-35 it would be another theater the Turks could test the plane against real world challenges, and refine it better for their own use.

Turkiye can produce 3 or 4 KIZILELMA in price of 1 RAFALE

Any plans for it to fit the longer range SOM missile?

KIZILELMA to carry 275 km SOM Cruise Missile ( anti-ship / land attack ) with warhead of 230 kg

 

[FuturePAF]

Turkiye can produce 3 or 4 KIZILELMA in price of 1 RAFALE




KIZILELMA to carry 275 km SOM Cruise Missile ( anti-ship / land attack ) with warhead of 230 kg

So what would you say is the price, roughly? Approx. $30 million each?

 

[MMM-E]

So what would you say is the price, roughly? Approx. $30 million each?

Price is not clear yet

but production cost is a thing , selling price is another thing

for example, USA selling MQ-9 Sea Guardian UAV for $100 millon per unite ( more than F35 price )

 

[MMM-E]

Barbaros Class Frigate Half-Life Modernization Project
( about €250 million )



4 Ships are planned to be delivered to the Turkish Navy until 2025 to match with 3 BELHARRA Frigates for the Hellenic Navy


The first modernization of BARBAROS class Frigate to be completed in May 2023

-- Havelsan ADVENT Network Enabled Data Integrated Combat Management System
-- Aselsan TAKS Fire Control System
-- Aselsan SMART-S MK-II 3D Radar
-- Aselsan MAR-D 3B AESA Radar
-- Aselsan AKR-D X and Ka-Band fire control Radars
-- Aselsan ARES-2N Electronic Warfare System
-- Aselsan PIRI Panoramic Infrared Imaging
-- Aselsan KATS Infrared Search and Track system
-- Aselsan FERSAH Carina Mounted Sonar System
-- Aselsan HIZIR Torpedo counter measure System

-- 1 x 127 mm Gun
-- 2 x Aselsan STOP 25mm RCW
-- 1 x Aselsan GOKDENIZ 35 mm CIWS
-- 1 x PHALANX 20 mm CIWS
-- 32/64 x ESSM/HISAR Air Defense Missiles
-- 16 x ATMACA Anti ship Missiles
-- 6 x Lightweight Torpedoes

Most modern Systems , weapons and more stealth capabilities

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

So what would you say is the price, roughly? Approx. $30 million each?

According to Selchuk Bayraktar, KIZILELMA is planned to be a low cost solution to have a mass production. TEI has come up with a turbofan engine prototype to cater for both single and dual engine variants.....