Greece-Turkey: towards a Rafale-Sukhoi confrontation?

[MirageBlue]

TURKEY should not lay all its eggs in twin engine basket. Single engine fighter is a must have to guarentee better availability rate because IAF su30 availablity rate per unit is less then half of PAF f16.

Really?

The availability rate of the Su-30MKI was reported to Parliament as being over 60% and that was many years ago when Manohar Parrikar was our Defence Minister.

Serviceability of IAF Su-30MKI rises to 60%- Manohar Parrikar

How high is the PAF's F-16 availability? And provide sources for your claim.

 

[alphapak]

This will depend on Turkey's relation with China and Russia. The engine of JF-17 is RD-93MA for export and WS-13 for domestic Chinese use.

I don't think the Russian engine will be a problem if they can get hold of S400's.
The problem will most likely be would China sell PL15 to Turkey?

 

[Kaleem.61]

I am in doubt they are not of same league. SU57 was supposed to be stealthy and never read or heard that Rafale is/will_be stealthy. Is not it 5th vs 4th gen?

Pak should offer JF17 block 3 with PL15 missile.

One will say it's a joke but there is nothing wrong in this statement if Turkey's requirements are according to JF17. It is very good option for 4th gen. I'm not talking about replacement of F35 with JF17-)) I am not on that level.

Plus JF's operational cost is very low and it's inventory is superb with trusted suppliers unlike other blackmailers (need not to mention).

If they can buy trainers from us they can buy JF17s too.

 

[alphapak]

One will say it's a joke but there is nothing wrong in this statement if Turkey's requirements are according to JF17. It is very good option for 4th gen. I'm not talking about replacement of F35 with JF17-)) I am not on that level.

Plus JF's operational cost is very low and it's inventory is superb with trusted suppliers unlike other blackmailers (need not to mention).

If they can buy trainers from us they can buy JF17s too.

JF17 B3 is not to replace the F35 but to use against Greece Rafale's. Pak is facing
same threat from India, so it is natural for Pak and Turkey to work together.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Really?

The availability rate of the Su-30MKI was reported to Parliament as being over 60% and that was many years ago when Manohar Parrikar was our Defence Minister.

Serviceability of IAF Su-30MKI rises to 60%- Manohar Parrikar

How high is the PAF's F-16 availability? And provide sources for your claim.

Despite sanctions on Pakistan in 1990s PAF managed to clock 270+ hours per F-16 from 1994 to 2005. The hours has significantly increased knowing PAF has sufficient spare parts supply after new F-16 deal in 2008-2012. This time PAF bought enough spare parts to last them decades even if US sanctions Pak.

F-16 Fighting Falcon News
Pakistani F-16s reach 100,000 accident free flight hours

October 4, 2005 (by Asif Shamim) - A three-member delegation of Pratt & Whitney called on Air Chief Marshal Kaleem Saadat, Chief of the Air Staff Pakistan Air Force at Air Headquarters to present a plaque to the Chief of the Air Staff in recognition of flying the F-16, for over 100,000 accident-free flight hours.

Lloyd W. "Fig" Newton, executive vice president, presented a plaque to the Chief of the Air Staff in recognition of flying the F-16, for over 100,000 accident-free flight hours.

They also commended the maintenance, quality control and flight safety standards of the PAF, which made this achievement possible.

Retired Gen. Lloyd Newton, along with Gen. (R) William J Begert, Vice President and Warren Boley, Vice President, remained with Air Chief Marshal Kaleem Sadaat, Chief of Air Staff for some time and discussed matters pertaining to mutual and professional interest.

So from last crash to 2005 puts each F-16 at 270+ hours per year.


Here is something interesting

So IAF Su-30 total service life is just 6000 hours

For 30 years in service would be 200 hours per year
or 40 years of service would be just 150.


https://www.business-standard.com/a...-hal-s-growing-capability-114102300636_1.html
A Su-30MKI is overhauled after flying 1,500 hours or 14 years, whichever is earlier. Over its total service life of 6,000 flying hours or 30-40 years, each fighter undergoes three overhauls. Eventually, the IAF's fleet of 272 Su-30MKIs will undergo 816 overhauls - three per fighter.

And like you mentioned, 60% of Su-30 fleet are grounded due to various reasons in addition to overhauling that it must go no matter what so that means your Su-30 flys half of PAF F-16 per frame.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

If they can buy trainers from us they can buy JF17s too.

JF-17 engine is RD-93MA. It must have approval from Russia.

 

[Kaleem.61]

Let's stay on this topic!

JF-17 engine is RD-93MA. It must have approval from Russia.

I don't think Russia will try to tease Sino-Pak deal or he will not behave like US. Especially on that time where his customers are getting alternatives. And one thing is important that Russia has already sold S400 to Turkey so RD93-MA is nothing in this course.

Most probably Russia will be happy to sell more engines instead of letting us think any alternative to his 93-MA. And when he has a credible benefit from his sales of engines.

In the end PAF can surprise anyone.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

Let's stay on this topic!


I don't think Russia will try to tease Sino-Pak deal or he will not behave like US. Especially on that time where his customers are getting alternatives. And one thing is important that Russia has already sold S400 to Turkey so RD93-MA is nothing in this course.

Most probably Russia will be happy to sell more engines instead of letting us think any alternative to his 93-MA. And when he has a credible benefit from his sales of engines.

In the end PAF can surprise anyone.

JF-17 is designed to fit RD-93. Another engine will take a significant redesign and a delay of a number of years. Russia may deem it more beneficial to sell MiG-29M/M2 to Turkey, so may block sale of RD-93 engine if Pakistan attempts to sell JF-17 to Turkey.