Greece is in panic on impending acquisition of the F-35 by Turkey

[Targon]

Azerbaijan doesn't have a significiant air force, they were not planning to win a war from air anyway, its Azerbaijan's problem they should prepared what can I do about that

 

[Armstrong]

Not sure. ATACMs are compatible with rocket launching systems, but I don't know how Turkey is using them.

Targon, I don't mean to troll D) but, since we are on the topic, have you heard that Armenia, Kazakhstan, and Russia (and possible Belarus) will be setting up a joint air-defense network by the end of this year? Meaning S-400s will be protecting Armenia. Still think that Azerbaijan can do anything?

Hmmmn....! Dude are you an Armenian living in Russia or a Russian living in Armenia ?

 

[Kajutyun]

Hmmmn....! Dude are you an Armenian living in Russia or a Russian living in Armenia ?

Armenian in Russia! TBH, Armenia is not (yet) a place that attracts many non-Armenians.

 

[Armstrong]

Armenian in Russia! TBH, Armenia is not (yet) a place that attracts many non-Armenians.

I'm sure it doesn't ! As embarrassing as it sounds and I do apologize if I offend you, but till a few years ago I had thought that 'Armenia' was the name of an ancient land from the antiquities like 'Babylon' or 'Canaan'; only later when glancing at an atlas did I find out to the contrary ! We - Pakistan and Armenia - should have greater cultural and political exchanges...perhaps with us - Pakistan - enjoying a special bond with our Turks and Azerbaijani brethren we can play a constructive role in helping end the enmity between them and you guys...either way may God bless you both !

 

[Kajutyun]

I'm sure it doesn't ! As embarrassing as it sounds and I do apologize if I offend you, but till a few years ago I had thought that 'Armenia' was the name of an ancient land from the antiquities like 'Babylon' or 'Canaan'; only later when glancing at an atlas did I find out to the contrary ! We - Pakistan and Armenia - should have greater cultural and political exchanges...perhaps with us - Pakistan - enjoying a special bond with our Turks and Azerbaijani brethren we can play a constructive role in helping end the enmity between them and you guys...either way may God bless you both !

Don't worry bro, you are more aware than the average person. Here in Russia, we Armenians are equated with Arabs

Yeah, relations between our two countries would be nice. As it stands though, Pakistan is the only country in the world that does not recognize the Armenian state.

IMO, mediation will not work between Armenia and Azerbaijan. It is no longer an issue of who is right and who is wrong (neither politically or historically). Armenia will never give up Karabakh 1. because it was always Armenian and 2. It has to protect the present-day Armenians in Karabakh. Azerbaijan will never give up claims to Karabakh because it has turned into an issue of pride (that Azerbaijan now has to avenge there loss in 94)

I just hope that the war will be quick and sustain minimal casualties.

 

[Armstrong]

Don't worry bro, you are more aware than the average person. Here in Russia, we Armenians are equated with Arabs

Yeah, relations between our two countries would be nice. As it stands though, Pakistan is the only country in the world that does not recognize the Armenian state.

IMO, mediation will not work between Armenia and Azerbaijan. It is no longer an issue of who is right and who is wrong (neither politically or historically). Armenia will never give up Karabakh 1. because it was always Armenian and 2. It has to protect the present-day Armenians in Karabakh. Azerbaijan will never give up claims to Karabakh because it has turned into an issue of pride (that Azerbaijan now has to avenge there loss in 94)

I just hope that the war will be quick and sustain minimal casualties.

Let us hope that the newer generation of Turks, Azerbaijanis and Armenians can bury the hatchet, honour the past and yet learn to live together in relative harmony !

On a separate note : Do you think making Karabakh a defacto, if not a de jure, independent territory with its own local government with only defence and foreign affairs jointly handled by both Armenia and Azerbaijan a realistic proposition ?

 

[Kajutyun]

Let us hope that the newer generation of Turks, Azerbaijanis and Armenians can bury the hatchet, honour the past and yet learn to live together in relative harmony !

On a separate note : Do you think making Karabakh a defacto, if not a de jure, independent territory with its own local government with only defence and foreign affairs jointly handled by both Armenia and Azerbaijan a realistic proposition ?

Not really (it wouldn't be defacto or dejure independent if it did not have control of those aspects). Anything that is done has to come from the people of Karabakh, in other words there has to be a sense of self-determinism. Frankly, the people there are ethnic Armenians and will never again support any kind of control from Azerbaijan. Besides, how can defense and foreign affairs both be handled by countries that consider each other enemies? Ilham Aliyev has repeatedly said that relations will not change until all of Karabkh is under Azeri rule.

Also, you have to look at precedence. Take Turkey for example. Their position is that the people of Karabakh should not be able to determine their future because legally speaking Karabakh is Azerbaijani (so, they are against self determinism). But then look at North Cyprus and you see the exact opposite. TRNC is legally Greek Cypriot, but Turkey belittles this and claims that Turkish Cypriots must decide their future (pro-self determinsim).

Surely, you can see the hypocrisy. IMO, self-determinism should surpass history, because you cannot discount the voice of a people just because.

 

[Ottoman-Turk]

hahha why you talking about our stuff ? dont talk about things you dont know , we have many medium air defence and now getting long range probab pac 3

I believe I can answer your second point. Turkey has many AA systems, although most are outdated. The Swedish BOFORS gun is in great supply, although I'm not sure why Turkey is still operating a WW2 era weapon. There is also J600 Chinese-Turkish balistic missile system, but as I understand it is in the process of being phased out as well. Other than that and some American made ATACMS, there are a wide variety of howitzers.

Suffice it to say that, without NATO, Turkey will not be able to defend itself from Russia.

 

[Kajutyun]

hahha why you talking about our stuff ? dont talk about things you dont know , we have many medium air defence and now getting long range probab pac 3

"Why you talking about our stuff"

Do you have some kind of verbal copyright I do not know about? I have just as much right to talk as you do.

Yes, the medium air defense is the Yildirim system that I mentioned. The PAC system is unconfirmed, and besides I was talking about present-day not future.

 

[Ottoman-Turk]

cyprus is ours , since ottoman empire , its either ours or half half

Not really (it wouldn't be defacto or dejure independent if it did not have control of those aspects). Anything that is done has to come from the people of Karabakh, in other words there has to be a sense of self-determinism. Frankly, the people there are ethnic Armenians and will never again support any kind of control from Azerbaijan. Besides, how can defense and foreign affairs both be handled by countries that consider each other enemies? Ilham Aliyev has repeatedly said that relations will not change until all of Karabkh is under Azeri rule.

Also, you have to look at precedence. Take Turkey for example. Their position is that the people of Karabakh should not be able to determine their future because legally speaking Karabakh is Azerbaijani (so, they are against self determinism). But then look at North Cyprus and you see the exact opposite. TRNC is legally Greek Cypriot, but Turkey belittles this and claims that Turkish Cypriots must decide their future (pro-self determinsim).

Surely, you can see the hypocrisy. IMO, self-determinism should surpass history, because you cannot discount the voice of a people just because.

 

[Kajutyun]

cyprus is ours , since ottoman empire , its either ours or half half

Please explain to me why Cyprus is Turkish and Artsakh is not Armenian.

 

[Ottoman-Turk]

you said our ballistic missile program is being phased out? what are you talking about , it was introduced not very long ago and now we are working at 2500+ km ballistic missile

J-600T Yıldırım III SRBM (900 km range) we are working to 2500+km missile

we have alot of aselsan stinger and other aselsan short range defence as well as medium range hawk and some turkish medium range but in a few years we will get long range aswell so talking about now we have enough short and medium range air defence

aselsan stinger holland army

"Why you talking about our stuff"

Do you have some kind of verbal copyright I do not know about? I have just as much right to talk as you do.

Yes, the medium air defense is the Yildirim system that I mentioned. The PAC system is unconfirmed, and besides I was talking about present-day not future.

kasirga missile

and this is yildirim

Please explain to me why Cyprus is Turkish and Artsakh is not Armenian.

i dont know about artsakh is that NK ? if it is then it was given to azerbaijan and you took it so because it was theres you need to give it back about cyprus , we did a peace operation to save against the greeks genocide against the population ( genocide because it was aimed to wipe out turks )

 

[Armstrong]

Not really (it wouldn't be defacto or dejure independent if it did not have control of those aspects). Anything that is done has to come from the people of Karabakh, in other words there has to be a sense of self-determinism. Frankly, the people there are ethnic Armenians and will never again support any kind of control from Azerbaijan. Besides, how can defense and foreign affairs both be handled by countries that consider each other enemies? Ilham Aliyev has repeatedly said that relations will not change until all of Karabkh is under Azeri rule.

Also, you have to look at precedence. Take Turkey for example. Their position is that the people of Karabakh should not be able to determine their future because legally speaking Karabakh is Azerbaijani (so, they are against self determinism). But then look at North Cyprus and you see the exact opposite. TRNC is legally Greek Cypriot, but Turkey belittles this and claims that Turkish Cypriots must decide their future (pro-self determinsim).

Surely, you can see the hypocrisy. IMO, self-determinism should surpass history, because you cannot discount the voice of a people just because.

As an ethnic Kashmiri myself and I do hope that you know about the Kashmir conflict, I'm vociferously 'Pro-Self Determination'...heck I'm even Pro that when it comes to Pakistan's troubled Province of Balochistan - If they don't want to live...you can't really force them, you should have had the decency to have treated them as your own to begin with ! But I can understand that 'Territorial Integrity' is a big thing for countries and it isn't something that any of us are willing to forego that easily so I was thinking along the lines of what Musharraf - the then President of Pakistan - proposed for Kashmir :

- phased withdrawal of troops.

- local self-governance.

- no changes in the borders of Kashmir.

- a joint supervision mechanism in Jammu and Kashmir involving India, Pakistan and Kashmir.

The last point in the context of both India and Pakistan and Azerbaijan and Armenia is fraught with problems. How do you end up with a 'Joint Supervision Mechanism' ? I think involving the UN at that stage might be a good idea...perhaps having a treaty of sorts where both Armenian and Azerbaijani observers are present in say the local assembly of Karabakh and if either of them feel that something is going against the letter or the spirit of the treaty the matter could be referred to an international arbitrator - the ICJ...I'd assume ! But maybe its a bit far too far fetched...I dunno, I just hope that more don't have to die because so many years ago we drew a line here instead of there (and I say that with respect to both us and your situation !).

 

[Kajutyun]

I didn't say the whole program, just some ordnance. I thought J600 was being phased out, but I wasn't sure and frankly it wouldn't matter against if a war breaks between Turkey and its traditional opponent (Russia). Isn't the Stinger a personal, shoulder-fire weapon?

I'm much more interested in your rationale for why Cyprus should be Turkish while Artsakh is Azerbaijani. In the former case, Turkey is pro self-determinism while in the latter it is against. In the former case, Turkey disregards international law while in the latter, it upholds it. Please explain this to me.

Yes, the Russians gave ethnically Armenian dominated NK to Azerbaijan because they were inconsiderate. Armenians were unable to get the land back throughout Soviet times because of repression. NK declared independence from USSR just like every other country in the 90s. Azerbaijan would not listen, so we took it by force. What do you not understand?

@Armstrong: There is no reason for Azerbaijan to maintain any rule whatsover. Ethnic Azeris are always welcome in there homeland (Nagorno Karabakh) provided that they are willing to recognize Armenians territorial rights. We are not under that pretense that NK never had Azeris.

 

[amalakas]

i dont know about artsakh is that NK ? if it is then it was given to azerbaijan and you took it so because it was theres you need to give it back about cyprus , we did a peace operation to save against the greeks genocide against the population ( genocide because it was aimed to wipe out turks )

I think genocide is ironic to be used as a term here. Please don't twist facts using inappropriate terminology.