Government could strip citizenship from Americans under Enemy Expatriation

[Safriz]

^^^ Its not an international law, its a country's law for its state, and the US is not a muslim state, so how can it be against muslims? though it might affect other muslim nationalities but then they have a choice of not harboring ill-intent for their host country.

Dont play innocent with me... you know exactly what i mean.

 

[gambit]

this law can be widely misused.
there are many muslim / of muslim origin businessmen who regularly travel abroad..
its way too easy for a business rival to get rid of him by reporting him.as terrorist / terrorist suporter.
authorities dont need proof to arrest them and a simple email or text message can be used as conclusive proof against the person and there will be no problem in his conviction.

You really did not think this argument through, did you? Is the withdrawal of citizenship a necessity in the prosecution of terrorism and terrorists? No, it is not. But as already pointed out, citizenship is accompanied by benefits that only states can confer and enforced. Imprisoning someone for a crime is a totally different issue. So if, as you ridiculously charged, that it is 'easy' to have someone stripped of US citizenship simply because of a charge and not a conviction, then it would have been even easier to have someone imprisoned simply because of the same charge. Can you show a pattern of that?

AFP: Egypt to strip men married to Israelis of citizenship

CAIRO — A Cairo court on Saturday upheld a ruling to strip Egyptian men married to Israeli women of their citizenship in a case that has highlighted national sentiment towards Israel.

Judge Mohammed al-Husseini, sitting on the Supreme Administrative Court, said the interior ministry must ask the cabinet to take the necessary steps to strip Egyptian men married to Israeli women, and their children, of their citizenship.

Why is this not condemned? If Egypt argued that mere marriage to a Jew is a national security issue and therefore worthy of withdrawal of Egyptian citizenship, why, after 9/11, can the US not say that merely being a muslim constitute a national security issue and round up all muslims within US territory, imprisoned them, then strip any of his/her US citizenship?

 

[newdelhinsa]

I am not against punishing the criminal and have zero tolerance against act of terrorism or treason. Like is said ''Prosecute your Citizens''.

I am interested in this thread, because this bill's misuse may effect the lives of someone I know; who have already suffered a lot in that polarized country. Also many other countries are going to follow the suite to become more schizophrenic wet hens.

Few points:

1. Only a Citizen can be pronounced Traitor. If he is not a citizen then he is not a traitor.

2. Why a traitor on the run will contact consulate in the first place.

3. Why USA will stop its Citizen entering into its borders when he is suppose to be apprehended and prosecuted.

4. Treason is a extraditable offence in USA.

5. Maximum penalty for treason is death. Serving maximum penalty for a crime in Jail and been striped off Citizenship doesn't make sense. Especially when he/she will have no other arrangement but to live in USA after serving his punishment.

This bill is a tool to be misused against new immigrants who by earning this social contract are still going to remain as vulnerable as they were before starting their new life in a new country. Bullying of Stripping them off Citizenship is going to hunt them forever, will further create traction between society & the state and distrust in minds of people for the Nation they take oath to be faithful.

Its all about how a state reflects its intentions; given the history I have no doubt that it is the continuation of the same tradition of living in garrisons amongst look alike people and shoot fodder over the walls at all outside or thrown outside then.

 

[anonymus]

I am not against punishing the criminal and have zero tolerance against act of terrorism or treason. Like is said ''Prosecute your Citizens''.

I am interested in this thread, because this bill's misuse may effect the lives of someone I know; who have already suffered a lot in that polarized country. Also many other countries are going to follow the suite to become more schizophrenic wet hens.

Few points:

1. Only a Citizen can be pronounced Traitor. If he is not a citizen then he is not a traitor.

2. Why a traitor on the run will contact consulate in the first place.

3. Why USA will stop its Citizen entering into its borders when he is suppose to be apprehended and prosecuted.

4. Treason is a extraditable offence in USA.

5. Maximum penalty for treason is death. Serving maximum penalty for a crime in Jail and been striped off Citizenship doesn't make sense. Especially when he/she will have no other arrangement but to live in USA after serving his punishment.

This bill is a tool to be misused against new immigrants who by earning this social contract are still going to remain as vulnerable as they were before starting their new life in a new country. Bullying of Stripping them off Citizenship is going to hunt them forever, will further create traction between society & the state and distrust in minds of people for the Nation they take oath to be faithful.

Its all about how a state reflects its intentions; given the history I have no doubt that it is the continuation of the same tradition of living in garrisons amongst look alike people and shoot fodder over the walls at all outside or thrown outside then.

You seem to have overlooked an important circumstance where stripping of citizenship can not only be beneficial but also required.

Suppose a terrorist flees the country and home country wants to target that terrorist ( probably assassinate).Now since that terrorist is on run he/she cannot be brought on trial as most liberal counties including India does not permits trail in absentia( Violates audi alteram partem concept) .Now if the terrorist is assassinated then his/her family member could bring charges of murder(theoritically) against government(Art 21 of Indian constitution.Don't know its equivalent in US).Also if that terrorist is held by intelligence,the family member could move a writ of habeus corpus as the terrorist is still a citizen of country.Revoking citizenship would deprive the person from many legal benefits that citizens of a country enjoys.

 

[illusion8]

Dont play innocent with me... you know exactly what i mean.

LOL I am as much saying the same thing as you are, but the innocents getting prosecuted is quite low compared to the traitors and terrorist and their sympathizers being kept away from the US by the law. I think this law in the future would be great for India as well.

 

[newdelhinsa]

You seem to have overlooked an important circumstance where stripping of citizenship can not only be beneficial but also required.

Suppose a terrorist flees the country and home country wants to target that terrorist ( probably assassinate).Now since that terrorist is on run he/she cannot be brought on trial as most liberal counties including India does not permits trail in absentia( Violates audi alteram partem concept) .Now if the terrorist is assassinated then his/her family member could bring charges of murder(theoritically) against government(Art 21 of Indian constitution.Don't know its equivalent in US).Also if that terrorist is held by intelligence,the family member could move a writ of habeus corpus as the terrorist is still a citizen of country.Revoking citizenship would deprive the person from many legal benefits that citizens of a country enjoys.

You seem to have overlooked an important circumstance where stripping of citizenship can not only be beneficial but also required.

Suppose a terrorist flees the country and home country wants to target that terrorist ( probably assassinate).Now since that terrorist is on run he/she cannot be brought on trial as most liberal counties including India does not permits trail in absentia( Violates audi alteram partem concept) .Now if the terrorist is assassinated then his/her family member could bring charges of murder(theoritically) against government(Art 21 of Indian constitution.Don't know its equivalent in US).Also if that terrorist is held by intelligence,the family member could move a writ of habeus corpus as the terrorist is still a citizen of country.Revoking citizenship would deprive the person from many legal benefits that citizens of a country enjoys.

Allegedly America has been killing enemy of its state irrespective of their Citizenship status since ages.

However assassination can only be done by military action sanctioned by the U.N. Security Council under Chapter VII of the U.N. Charter, Or an attack made by a victim state in self-defence (Article 51). If America can earn the right of assassination of any individual (Citizen or non-Citizen) from UN then its courts can also sentence the maximum punishment with the same argument. Also can they undermine their own law i.e. Executive Order 12333 which prohibits the act of state-sponsored killing?

If you are saying Americans courts should deliver the justice as per will of the state, then I don't think Justice is subservient of state's will. America can set more bad precedence she wants BTW. In an ideal world people should have right to defend themselves and to have fair trial in courts of justice.

Citizenship status has no affluence on the course of trail and ultimately conviction. An argument was made that if Citizenship is not that important then why not to give it up? Anyone who is not proven guilty, without fair trial should give up its Citizenship sounds ridiculous. What they are now trying to do is directly or indirectly depriving the defender to have a fair trial. If a person is convicted with maximum penalty then what extra punishment this stripping off citizenship will add to his justifiable sufferings in Jail? Squat.
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I think I have done enough mental %^$#$%%$ on this topic. I oppose this bill because it may be misused against new immigrants and it sounds racist. America is a land of immigrants; I do not know how people are going to perceive it.

The best policy is to be faithful to the nation you live. But sometimes **** happens and people can frame you false.

 

[Smarterthanyou]

this law can be widely misused.
there are many muslim / of muslim origin businessmen who regularly travel abroad..
its way too easy for a business rival to get rid of him by reporting him.as terrorist / terrorist suporter.
authorities dont need proof to arrest them and a simple email or text message can be used as conclusive proof against the person and there will be no problem in his conviction.

This is the US and not court of sharia law with all due respect. We don't as a guiding principle assume a person guilty just because a person complained. You should know, her majesty laws are quite similar and you have more rights under the queen's law than you would have in your motherland.

 

[fallstuff]

Liberman is probably working with the other idiot Liberman on this one. It is the season of ' I am more stupid than you.' We have the followig genious saying this,

Rick Perry says Marines who urinated on dead bodies are 'kids' - Sacramento Living - Sacramento Food and Wine, Home, Health | Sacramento Bee

Politician = Lowest scum = Garbage

Garbage in = Garbage out