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Gilani walks off triumphant in contempt case!

The God-damned Establishment of Pakistan! The selective 'justice' of this judiciary is mind-boggling! It has not seriously looked into the 15-year old Mehran Gate Scandal nor the graft charges against the Sharifs nor really pursued Musharraf. But, when it comes to the PPP, they are focused to bring down or humiliate this govt.
This is all about the upcoming Senate elections in Pakistan in February. Then there are earlier general elections in the fall of 2012. But the judiciary is out to make sure the next govt.--which will undoubtedly have the Army's backing--gets a clear majority where the Senate cannot be an obstacle.
This is a judicial coup, backed up by the military, to make sure, as always, when the military-backed govt. is formed they don't have a lot of opposition in the Parliament of Pakistan. When did they EVER allow strong opposition. Never. It is always full control of the Parliament, along with full control of all the Provincial Assemblies.
This govt. deserves to be kicked out because of incompetence. But I will not tolerate a coup!
 
few of the ruling elites are honest --either with themselves or with their ''fellow countrymen''

---------- Post added at 02:31 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:30 AM ----------

i'll tell you one thing....i dont appreciate being lied to, time and time again.

it isn't appreciated. at all.
 
The God-damned Establishment of Pakistan! The selective 'justice' of this judiciary is mind-boggling! It has not seriously looked into the 15-year old Mehran Gate Scandal nor the graft charges against the Sharifs nor really pursued Musharraf. But, when it comes to the PPP, they are focused to bring down or humiliate this govt.


This is all about the upcoming Senate elections in Pakistan in February. Then there are earlier general elections in the fall of 2012. But the judiciary is out to make sure the next govt.--which will undoubtedly have the Army's backing--gets a clear majority where the Senate cannot be an obstacle.
This is a judicial coup, backed up by the military, to make sure, as always, when the military-backed govt. is formed they don't have a lot of opposition in the Parliament of Pakistan. When did they EVER allow strong opposition. Never. It is always full control of the Parliament, along with full control of all the Provincial Assemblies.
This govt. deserves to be kicked out because of incompetence. But I will not tolerate a coup!

It happened in Nawaz Sharif tenure when they attacked the supreme court and same cold war b/w judiciary and nawaz sharif was going on. Now tell me, why make PPP a sacrficial lamb when they brought this wrath on them willingly? why blame judiciary? Mockery is made of Judiciary that When a Sitting government is not obeying the LAW then how will commoners will obey them?

Issue is not the old cases rather it is about the current cases which is against sitting government. Now tell me, Sitting government hindered the NICL judicial probe, they hindered in Power Sector probe, they hindered in Steel mills probe, they appointed Corrupt officials to top post and still you are criticizing the judiciary?

Why not criticize the government whose actions taken us to this point, It was not the judiciary rather Government corrupt practise which caused this.

Now your post is giving the impression that PPP should be given a free pass and they should rule the country like a jungle.
 
@Mafiya,
From day one this judiciary has singled out the PPP. This judiciary is not 'interpreting' the Constitution; it is doing it along its own rather politicized 'judicial activism' ways. And 'old cases' are still very important. The Generals involved in the Mehran Gate were never brought to justice. Another General gets a Guard of Owner after doing something 'illegal' and gets to leave the country.

I can go on and on about the selective justice. When a judiciary cherry-picks the cases in aggressive way it is a politicized judiciary. When a judiciary purposely tries to interpret 'Presidential Immunity' to suit its own slant then it is a politicized judiciary. These same damned judges were around to see Musharraf through his coup. These same damn judges put up with Musharraf's 'pardon' of Nawaz Sharif. They are NOT neutral judges. And now they want to help the Army mount a soft-coup.

Now, I too want this govt. out. I know this govt. is corrupt--and so are most of them in the world. But I cannot forgive their incompetence. But when I see that a two-bit self-proclaimed American 'patriot' like Mansoor Ejaz is being used to topple a govt. over, what I call, a non-issue, and when I see that two-year old NRO cases are being lumped into Ejaz's case, and when I see that there is all the talk of the Senate elections, then I am not convinced that the judiciary is impartial.

This is not good for Pakistan to give the PPP another 'martyr' government barely 10 months before they can easily kicked out. But the Establishment of Pakistan has a long history of making blunders. I hope sanity prevails.
 
It happened in Nawaz Sharif tenure when they attacked the supreme court and same cold war b/w judiciary and nawaz sharif was going on. Now tell me, why make PPP a sacrficial lamb when they brought this wrath on them willingly? why blame judiciary? Mockery is made of Judiciary that When a Sitting government is not obeying the LAW then how will commoners will obey them?

Issue is not the old cases rather it is about the current cases which is against sitting government. Now tell me, Sitting government hindered the NICL judicial probe, they hindered in Power Sector probe, they hindered in Steel mills probe, they appointed Corrupt officials to top post and still you are criticizing the judiciary?

Why not criticize the government whose actions taken us to this point, It was not the judiciary rather Government corrupt practise which caused this.

Now your post is giving the impression that PPP should be given a free pass and they should rule the country like a jungle.



sorry but this judiciary, & this political system is working against each other like 2 different mafia"s, battling for the control of
underground bussinesses!
all of them have thier own hidden agenda,s?
 
"They" will try to remove COAS and DG ISI from their office by taking back the extentions given to them....Then it will be the turn for Supreme Court.....this is the nightmare situation for my country. God help us....!
 
well the real irony is that it was judiciary and the same ''dictator'' they talk about which brought PPP in, in the first place!

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:
 
The God-damned Establishment of Pakistan! The selective 'justice' of this judiciary is mind-boggling! It has not seriously looked into the 15-year old Mehran Gate Scandal nor the graft charges against the Sharifs nor really pursued Musharraf. But, when it comes to the PPP, they are focused to bring down or humiliate this govt.
This is all about the upcoming Senate elections in Pakistan in February. Then there are earlier general elections in the fall of 2012. But the judiciary is out to make sure the next govt.--which will undoubtedly have the Army's backing--gets a clear majority where the Senate cannot be an obstacle.
This is a judicial coup, backed up by the military, to make sure, as always, when the military-backed govt. is formed they don't have a lot of opposition in the Parliament of Pakistan. When did they EVER allow strong opposition. Never. It is always full control of the Parliament, along with full control of all the Provincial Assemblies.
This govt. deserves to be kicked out because of incompetence. But I will not tolerate a coup!
How is this a coup?

Is it not true that the PPP government has refused to implement the SC orders for over two years now?

The problem is not the Supreme Court - the problem is the dynastic political parties that are in government.

The PPP led coalition government does not have to fall and it does not have to end its term prematurely with early elections - Zardari and Gillani should either step down, implement the SC verdict or be disqualified.

The PPP led coalition can then appoint a new Prime Minister and the National and Provincial Assemblies can elect a new President.

I usually respect your posts and opinions, but I think here you have chosen to focus on the tired 'Establishment plotting a coup' canard, while ignoring the fact that the only reason the SC's judgement is an issue is because of dynastic politics, otherwise the PPP government should be able to function just fine and complete its term, even with the SC disqualifying the three individuals mentioned.
 
Ever since Musharraf left, I have been hitting my head on stubborn and illogical people.

It was a temporary immunity for the popular politicians just to avoid anarchy, it was never legalized.

NRO is EXPIRED since LONG, there was no need for Supreme court to remind us of the expiry date.

I guess people of Pakistan does consider corruption as mother of all ills, otherwise Aitizaz Hassan should have marched to President house not on GT road.
 
well the real irony is that it was judiciary and the same ''dictator'' they talk about which brought PPP in, in the first place!

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

The people of Pakistan elected this govt. and its President. Fair and square. And there are only a handful of PPP beneficiary in the NRO's 8000-count list.

Do you guys care to explain how the same Nawaz Sharif--who was kicked out from the airport by Musharraf barely a few months before the NRO--managed to come back later? What about the graft charges against him. Oh, I forget, selective justice is at play here.


By late 2007, Pakistan had become far too violent then it was barely one year before. There were not only many acts of terrorism starting then, but also the crises resulting from the sacking of the Chief Justice, the Lal Masjid disaster, and finally the assassination of Benazir in December 2007 put Pakistan on a really downward spiral. By early 2008, it was obvious that 'change' had to come. Musharraf had become a 'bunker president' by then. He wanted out. After getting the Guard of Honor. The sacked-judiciary wanted in.
So NRO was devised. General elections held. PPP the largest political party--just like it was in 2002 elections. The judiciary restored.
Then came even more violence. Even more incompetence of the govt. Attempts to reign in the Army.
So what's to be done? Change of leadership again. But Zardari can't be legally kicked out. Well, let him be kicked out through the judiciary. And use a two-bit American patriot like Mansoor Ejaz to topple this govt.!
And kick him out now before his party gets more seats in the Senate. The intolerance and myopia of Pakistan's Establishment has no limits. They are going to make a martyr out of an incompetent govt. which is about to be kicked out anyway by 2013. All because some stupid people are afraid of PPP's majority in the Senate. I have seen enough crap in Pakistan's politics to smell a rat--which it is. A judicial coup, backed up by the Army.
 
has anyone ever wondered why all these crucial state organs are ''ganging up'' on the poor, honest civilian government?
 
well the real irony is that it was judiciary and the same ''dictator'' they talk about which brought PPP in, in the first place!

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

An interesting piece by Ejaz Haider related to what you say:

Our terrible binary

By Ejaz Haider
Published: January 10, 2012

In mid-2007 when the lawyers’ movement entered its second phase, I took the position that we needed to add value to the first-round defeat of then-General President Pervez Musharraf’s rather than forcing the military into kicking aside the chessboard and playing solitaire. Better to transition to the next phase than trying to transform the system overnight and failing. The argument was that getting rid of Musharraf while good in and of itself was not enough to right the civil-military imbalance.

I fell afoul of many readers. We are now in the year 2012 and while many things have changed, some central questions remain.
Take the exorcising of memogeist.

The Supreme Court judges are now being criticised for, to put it charitably, helping the military pull down the legitimately elected government of the PPP. These are the same judges for whose restoration the lawyers and civil society activists had struggled so hard. That movement was pegged on the belief that Pakistan’s judicial history and with it Pakistan itself will fundamentally change and the spectre of a coup will be banished from this house forever.

Those who then struggled for the judiciary also, for the most part, criticised the PPP for not doing much for the movement before and after the elections. Many liberals, traditionally aligned with the PPP, put their faith in Mian Nawaz Sharif who seemed to have resolved to get the sacked judges back on the bench. He came to encapsulate the spirit that people thought should have defined the PPP.

Today, most of those criticising the PPP then are standing with the PPP now and criticising the judiciary. Most of them are also disappointed in and with Mian Sahib for agitating the memo issue. For his own part, Mian Sahib, who was bitterly criticising the military just weeks ago, has now provided the military the space by petitioning the Supreme Court to put a neck-lock on this government.

The military, for its part, is advancing steadily on the back of legalities as worked by the SC. But the dragnet is closing as is clear from statements by Prime Minister Yousaf Raza Gilani. (The NRO judgment is the arm-lock.)

The point of what I have said about who was standing where then and now is not to fault people for taking inconsistent positions. Mao Tse Tung argued that taking positions required finding the principal contradiction. Since contradictions are not static but keep shifting, positions can and will shift too. My point is to prove that what most of us consider as the final bend in the road is never that. The pathway is never simple and linear, as movements make it out to be.

Both positions, now and then, incidentally, have a consistent principal contradiction – civil-military (im)balance. X liked the judges yesterday but doesn’t like them today. Yesterday the judges struggled against a military leader; today their actions, even if pro forma, are likely to derail the civilians.

One thing, however, has changed. Yesterday, the military man was on the wrong side of the law and the constitution. Today, the military has kept to the right side of the legal-constitutional. Yesterday the civilians wanted the exercise of the legal-constitutional; today, they want the issue dealt with broadly in political terms because the legal defeat of this government, if it comes to that ultimately, will help the military win again and that is an outcome worse than putting up with a government that doesn’t have much to show for governance.

Most people, and many are not enamoured of this government, are supporting it because of a normative standard where reality shows wild swings of the graph in relation to the straight line of how it should be.

But there is another variable too: the political opposition. The court was petitioned by the head of the second largest political party according to the 2008 election results. There are also many other political elements, including the rising Tehreek-e Insaaf, that want to see the back of this government and are pushing for early elections. And again, would this have happened if there were no memo?

The literature on civil-military relations has increasingly looked, in addition to the structural problems that create the imbalance, at the element of ‘opportunity’. The military cannot exercise the nuclear option – unless the civilians go for a first strike – but an opportunity has been created for it to exploit and it will because that is its institutional response. As far as it can and for as long as it can, the military will resist the shift in the balance of power in favour of the civilians. That is precisely why the civilians need to govern effectively and not give to the military the spur that pricks the sides of its intent.

That has not happened and the fault for providing the military the opportunity lies with the PPP. Such is the nature of the fault-line and the partisan positions along that divide that analysing all sides of the problem have become almost impossible. The political binary has become an analytical binary.

Published in The Express Tribune, January 11th, 2012.

Our terrible binary – The Express Tribune

=======

Note the highlighted part - something many of us on this forum keep reiterating ... civilian supremacy is not going to miraculously 'drop from the heavens' - see the AKP model in Turkey as an example of 'good governance by civilians resulting in civilian supremacy over the military'.
 
"They" will try to remove COAS and DG ISI from their office by taking back the extentions given to them....Then it will be the turn for Supreme Court.....this is the nightmare situation for my country. God help us....!

Ghadari and company have no public support.. only TTP will come to their rescue.

To tackle TTP.. it is very important to take Rehman Malik on remand.
 

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