Gilani seeks more evidence against Lashkar for action

[SMC]

Indian govt doesn't need to say a word.. its your own govt claiming that ISI is no longer supporting organizations like Taliban..

The allegations are long running about other groups such as LeT and still about Taliban.

and that ISI leadership has changed since Musharraf regime to be more neutral.. (quoted by DAWN)..

It was changed to be less involved politically.

Lets face it.. it has always been and will always be in ISI's interest to maintain ties with Taliban and Al-Qaeda to push its influence in Afghanistan and extended its Kashmir agenda.

Conspiracy theory.

How easy was it for Pakistan govt to capture number 2 commander of TTP from lahore? it was like they knew where he was already..

It was in Karachi, not Lahore, but no big deal.

How easy was it? How long was he sitting there? He may have been there for several years. So we don't know if it was easy or hard or what.

 

[mohit]

It was in Karachi, not Lahore, but no big deal.

Thanks for correction..

 

[rubyjackass]

Well at least Indian support for Balochistan terrorists is 100% clear. Like I mentioned before, in an interview, a Balochi terrorist leader when asked about support from India became silent for 5 seconds and then said we will take support from whoever gives us. So Indian involvement in Balochistan is confirmed and not up for debate. At least to me. If you want to deny it, go ahead.

That is what convinced you?? C'mon dude this kind of rhetoric is very common with leaders of separatists movements. They say they will take help from whoever gives them. That is what Mujibur Rahman said and Dalai Lama says now. Does that mean Dalai Lama has got arms support from anyone? India in particular? These people need all the help they can get and try to attract as many forces as possible. Whether India falls for them or not is an entirely different issue. As regards to photographs taken with Indian diplomats, they did not have any evidence of training centres did they? Uighur muslims meet American senators all the time asking for support. Very often all they get is BS 'moral' support. So please dont come to conclusions without anything concrete. If you have something show me too and I will believe in you.

Until then stop this emotional ga ga ga.

 

[SMC]

That is what convinced you?? C'mon dude this kind of rhetoric is very common with leaders of separatists movements. They say they will take help from whoever gives them. That is what Mujibur Rahman said and Dalai Lama says now. Does that mean Dalai Lama has got arms support from anyone? India in particular? These people need all the help they can get and try to attract as many forces as possible. Whether India falls for them or not is an entirely different issue. As regards to photographs taken with Indian diplomats, they did not have any evidence of training centres did they? Uighur muslims meet American senators all the time asking for support. Very often all they get is BS 'moral' support. So please dont come to conclusions without anything concrete. If you have something show me too and I will believe in you.

Until then stop this emotional ga ga ga.

I am not asking you to believe me. I really don't care if indians don't believe me. What was striking was his tone + his silence. Mujibur rehman did get support from India, can't remember Dalai Lama saying it.

But regardless Dalai Lama and this, two different things.

Dalai Lama says he will take support from anyone (assuming you're right). That proves nothing about whether he is getting support.

This guy is ASKED whether India supports him, he pauses and then says he will take support from whoever gives him. This does prove something about whether he is getting support. The two things are completely different.

 

[rubyjackass]

So your proof is the pause?

The pause could be a reaction of surprise to an out of place question, a pause for effect to tempt India to support them or he might have took time for phrasing his position on the issue.


PS: Just so we are clear, when I said Dalai Lama asked assistance, it is not in the form of military support but as diplomatic support to pressure China to talk to Tibetan rebels.

 

[SMC]

Yes, the pause is significant. You're using typical cheap tactics of ignoring the context of the pause. What matters is what was asked before the pause of roughly 5 seconds. And again, more importantly, it is what followed the pause. It's not just the pause by itself that matters.

Your explanations are not good enough.

The whole thing went like this.

The interviewer asks him if he is receiving financial or resource support from India (can't exactly remember the full question as it was a few months ago).

There is a pause for 5 seconds.

He then says we will take support from whoever gives us.

And that was it on the question.

I repeat, he was ASKED whether India supports him. This cannot be compared to Dalai Lama incident, assuming that happened. You have to look at the whole thing together. The question, the pause, and the reply put together. Not the reply by itself or the pause by itself.

Btw, just an aside, I don't think you'd be asking for too many explanations if this was Hafiz Saeed talking about the Pakistani state in an answer to the question.

 

[Dr.Evil]

We cant wakeup a guy who is pretending to be asleep - this suits Gilanis position.

Gilani cant even dare think of taking any strong action against LET, that will give Pak army another chance of coup and coming back to power.

 

[Aslan]

We cant wakeup a guy who is pretending to be asleep - this suits Gilanis position.

Gilani cant even dare think of taking any strong action against LET, that will give Pak army another chance of coup and coming back to power.

Your location best defines your attitude towards things. What Gailani is saying is giving you guys heart burns, and yet you have retards in the higher ups of your Gov and military who spew all the crap they can and thats ok.

 

[Kabir Panthi]

India will definitely be able to provide more evidence against the Lashkar. But for that Indian agencies will need to conduct arrests and interrogations in Pakistani territory.

Since all Pakistanis condemn terrorism, I'm sure they will not have any objections to that.

 

[Aslan]

India will definitely be able to provide more evidence. But for that Indian agencies will need to conduct arrests and interrogations in Pakistani territory.

Since all Pakistanis condemn terrorism, I'm sure they will not have any objections to that.

Even with the relation that the US and Canada or England have with each other they don't allow that, so wake up wato. You have proof follow the legal channel and go through the Pakistani authorities, don't try to act like a big macho thug on the street trying to bully every one.

 

[Kabir Panthi]

Even with the relation that the US and Canada or England have with each other they don't allow that, so wake up wato. You have proof follow the legal channel and go through the Pakistani authorities, don't try to act like a big macho thug on the street trying to bully every one.

What exactly are you objecting to?

Your Prime Minister says that Pakistan has no capability to gather any evidence against Lashkar.

Furthermore Pakistanis definitely condemn terrorism with all sincerity.

Thirdly, India is fully capable of gathering evidence by conducting arrests and interrogations inside Pakistan.

Pakistanis keep saying terrorism is a common enemy of India and Pakistan. Therefore let India do the work that Pakistan has said they are incapable of doing.

 

[riju78]

i watched this on UK channel 4 last week..couldnt find it on youtube but it is on channel 4 site and another site below..please watch..

SeeSaw - Watch Unreported World - Pakistan's Terror Central online

Unreported World is granted rare access to the Pakistan headquarters of what the US and UN say is a front organisation for one of the world's biggest terrorist networks, and the organisation behind the 2008 Mumbai attacks.

While the group says it's a charity set up to help the poor, reporter Evan Williams talks to insiders, government ministers and terrorism experts to investigate the truth about an organisation that has expanded its activities from Kashmir to attacking western targets outside Pakistan.

Williams and director Will West begin their journey in Lahore, the capital of Pakistan's Punjab province. They have a meeting with Asadullah, a member of Lashkar-e-Taiba - 'The Army of the Righteous'. The terrorist organisation has been directly blamed for the Mumbai attacks that killed 173 people, and a string of other deadly attacks in India. Asadullah tells Williams he and 26 friends fought in Kashmir, but he was the only one who survived.

Lashkar's terrorist activities led to it being banned in Pakistan. But the United Nations says it is now operating in the country under a new name - Jamaat-ud-Dawa - and the UN continues to view it as a terrorist front organisation. JuD claims it is no more than an Islamic charity, and denies it is a front for Lashkar and its terrorism.

Williams and West travel to a village on the outskirts of Lahore. It was once a Lashkar military training camp, but now it is the JuD headquarters. They've been granted very rare access to the organisation's facilities.

Opponents claim that this centre is used to raise funds that are then channelled into terrorism - a claim denied by JuD. Senior members of the organisation, together with a government official, show the team around, stressing the charitable work they say they carry out, including providing medical care and education for thousands of nearby villagers.

Their spokesperson says that supplies are donated by supportive businesses across Pakistan. He also says that India was behind the decision to label the group a terrorist organisation, and that it is completely separate to Lashkar. However, the group's leaders get jumpy at growing disquiet with the team's presence, telling Williams and West that they can no longer guarantee their safety. The team is then escorted out of the compound.

Back in Lahore, Williams talks to one of the country's most authoritative writers, Ahmed Rashid. He says that every time Lashkar has come under pressure, it changes its name and closes its bank accounts, before opening up a new office and new account and reappearing in a new light. He claims everyone still calls Jamaat-ud-Dawa Lashkar-e-Taiba because that's what they are.

The team follows up this claim in a meeting with Rana Sanaullah Khan, Punjab's Law Minister, and asks him why, when the rest of the world says Jamaat-ud-Dawa is a front for terrorism, the Pakistani government tolerates them. Khan says that, although many people in JuD do good work, it's not just a charity. He claims that some JuD people are carrying out terrorist activities in Kashmir, but that he fears that if the organisation was banned, it would respond with a wave of suicide attacks.

The strength of the organisation is clear when the team visits the group's main mosque, which, a spokesman says, on a good day has up to 10,000 people.

To hear another view on why JuD is allowed to continue in Pakistan, Unreported World meets the former intelligence chief who was responsible for setting up many of Pakistan's militant groups. Hamid Gul is now retired but remains politically involved in the struggle for Kashmir.

He tells Williams that if Islamist militants triumph in neighbouring Afghanistan, a new wave of radicalised fighters will turn their attention to Kashmir. 'There will be uprising in Kashmir, massive uprising,' he says. 'Maybe it will lead to an armed conflict between the two countries - and then the Jihadis will be the right arm of the Pakistan army.'

 

[Aslan]

What exactly are you objecting to?

Your Prime Minister says that Pakistan has no capability to gather any evidence against Lashkar.

Furthermore Pakistanis definitely condemn terrorism with all sincerity.

Thirdly, India is fully capable of gathering evidence by conducting arrests and interrogations inside Pakistan.

Pakistanis keep saying terrorism is a common enemy of India and Pakistan. Therefore let India do the work that Pakistan has said they are incapable of doing.

And can you provide me the link where our PM said that we are not capable of gathering evidence. And keep your huhuhaha to your self. Pakistan dont need to prove squat to any one nor do we have to give you guys any leverage in any thing. Your country is no saint, and we have and are doing our part in the WOT. So cry all you want and keep as your guys coming to Pakistan to interrogate who ever is never gona happen.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

But there is difference between India's and Pakistan's suffering from terrorism. Pakistan is a victim of terrorism which is a domestic problem. TTP is a Pakistani organization and no international terrorists are attacking Pakistan.

Whereas India is a victim of terrorism which in which terrorists are coming across the border and government across the border accepting it.

Shah Mehmood Qureshi is smart enough to understand the different situation and hence he should stop crying that Pakistan is as much victims of terrorism as India is.India is a victim of international terrorism where as Pakistan is of home grown.

The only similarity in both the countries is both are victim of Pakistan based terrorist outfits.

Terrorism is terrorism. The point is that Pakistan is suffering from terrorism, in fact was dealing with it before the Mumbai attacks (though not to the degree that occurred later) and therefore has no interest in supporting terrorism.

Another point being made is that given the Pakistani State is struggling to control terrorism directed at itself, it is irrational for India to argue that Pakistan should be able to prevent every single terrorist attack aimed at India, and further, hold relations hostage to such an unreasonable demand and leave the threat of war hanging in the air.

What kind of evidences Mr.Gilani want? Why Pakistan had banned Let and frozen their bank accounts? Just for fun? Why Obama had raised the issue of action against LeT? Why Let has been declared as international terrorist outfit? Let changed name to JuD and now operates through JuD ....whole world knows about this except GoP?

Will ever any evidence be adequate for GoP to punish these masterminds of 26/11 ?

Mr.Gilani first you have to produce the evidence that how willing and committed you are in this WoT?

As pointed out earlier by a member, the UN resolutions called for punitive actions against the organization and members. Even arrest and/or deportation was not mandated. There was not proper trial of the accused and no chance given them to present their case.

Given that the accused are maintaining their innocence and are in fact asking for a trial, one would think that the UN would come up with a mechanism under which the individuals concerned could be tried in a neutral nation, and if found guilty, be arrested and incarcerated, instead of these rather ineffective restrictions.

As for the alleged masterminds, India has only provided some evidence against Shah and Lakhvi. Pakistan has arrested them and a few of their accomplices and they are under trial. India has not provided evidence against Hafiz Saeed or any one else, and that is probably what Gillanni is referring to.

 

[Kabir Panthi]

And can you provide me the link where our PM said that we are not capable of gathering evidence. And keep your huhuhaha to your self. Pakistan dont need to prove squat to any one nor do we have to give you guys any leverage in any thing. Your country is no saint, and we have and are doing our part in the WOT. So cry all you want and keep as your guys coming to Pakistan to interrogate who ever is never gona happen.

There is no need to take offence. I acknowledge the deep sincerity of Pakistan's efforts against terrorism.

If Pakistan has not been successful in gathering evidence against the Lashkar, it cannot be for lack of trying. Pakistan must have done everything within its capability, despite which it has suffered failure.

Therefore I say, let India take over. Let India conduct arrests and interrogations in Pakistan. India has full capability to gather evidence which will nail the terrorists.

After all terrorism is a common enemy of both India and Pakistan, is it not?