Germany's Last Remaining WW2 Knights Cross Recipients Hold Meeting Amid Threats

[Desert Fox]

BTW, speaking of the Knights Cross, i just finished reading the book Cross of Iron by Willi Heinrich not too long ago. A good war novel i must say. There is a movie of the same name but the director did a crappy job in my opinion so don't even bother wasting your time on the film. To all of the history buffs here @Nilgiri @Psychic @The Sandman @AUSTERLITZ do check it out guys whenever you have the time

Cross of Iron

Also, @Vergennes not sure if you ever heard of this book but it might interest you:

Link

 

[Nilgiri]

BTW, speaking of the Knights Cross, i just finished reading the book Cross of Iron by Willi Heinrich not too long ago. A good war novel i must say. There is a movie of the same name but the director did a crappy job in my opinion so don't even bother wasting your time on the film. To all of the history buffs here @Nilgiri @Psychic @The Sandman @AUSTERLITZ do check it out guys whenever you have the time

Cross of Iron
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Also, @Vergennes not sure if you ever heard of this book but it might interest you:

Link
View attachment 356076​

Yes read the book and watched the movie a long time back.

Book clearly superior. The movie had its moments (like the T-34 choreography which is simply impossible today)...but overall yeah not great.

 

[Desert Fox]

Yes read the book and watched the movie a long time back.

Book clearly superior. The movie had its moments (like the T-34 choreography which is simply impossible today)...but overall yeah not great.

yeah that scene duped me into thinking the entire film was going to be as epic as the book. The movie barely covered 20% of the what took place in the book.

 

[EyelessInGaza]

the second you passed judgement on me like a Fascist (ironically) for having differing views you lost any chance for constructive dialogue. I'm not gonna waste my time.

Fair enough. But please note that I am not attacking you, I am attacking what I think is your ideology and your POV. I respect all individuals (well most), not the least someone as clearly intelligent as you. I find your philosophy condemnable,but that is not to say I disrecpect you. Not my style.

BTW, speaking of the Knights Cross, i just finished reading the book Cross of Iron by Willi Heinrich not too long ago. A good war novel i must say. There is a movie of the same name but the director did a crappy job in my opinion so don't even bother wasting your time on the film.....

Looks like we disagree again.... The novel is good, the film is good too and (totally different and irrelevant point) the director is iconic.

 

[Psychic]

Hitler's personal adjutant (can't recall his name)

Gunsche.

The people who regularly condemn the Nazis are the ones who label us Pakistanis intolerant for not recognizing Israel.
For them what the Zionists have done so far is acceptable.

For them what the capitalist, the commies and their stooges did across the globe is somehow less vile than what the Nazis did. Their double standards and their holier than thou attitude is sickening. They don't have the gall to look at the dirty laundry of their own governments. They will only condemn the genocides committed by ISIS or the Nazis, not the ones carried out by their own governments. They just follow the mainstream narrative like sheep, mere sheep.

They can invade, destroy, kill, maim, rape and pillage as many countries as they want in the name of spreading "freedom" & "democracy" but the Liberals will continue to cheer them on.

These people depend on the media to do their thinking for them which is why i'm not surprised at their ignorance of facts. Nobody reads books anymore let alone a two-three page article (average Westerner has a very short attention span) to dig for the truth on their own.

BTW, speaking of the Knights Cross, i just finished reading the book Cross of Iron by Willi Heinrich not too long ago. A good war novel i must say. There is a movie of the same name but the director did a crappy job in my opinion so don't even bother wasting your time on the film. To all of the history buffs here @Nilgiri @Psychic @The Sandman @AUSTERLITZ do check it out guys whenever you have the time

Cross of Iron
View attachment 356074



Also, @Vergennes not sure if you ever heard of this book but it might interest you:

Link
View attachment 356076​

I have read these.... very gripping

yeah that scene duped me into thinking the entire film was going to be as epic as the book. The movie barely covered 20% of the what took place in the book.

Have you watched "Downfall"

 

[Indus Pakistan]

people who regularly condemn

You really think the Nazis would have been better than the Western order that prevailed in 1945 and holds sway today? Really?

It's like the mice complaining about the cat and lauding the puma. The other is magnified of the former.

 

[Psychic]

You really think the Nazis would have been better than the Western order that prevailed in 1945 and holds sway today? Really?

It's like the mice complaining about the cat and lauding the puma. The other is magnified of the former.

Didn't claim anything.

Just pointing out the hypocrisy.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

hypocrisy.

That is something there is no shortage of that. East, West, North or South. I just was just listening to a Muslim group discussing Islam in UK. They sounded the biggest supporters of multi-culturalism in UK. Clearly having a secular, diverse, multicultural society is good for Islam. The same bunch in Pakistan will decalre secularism as manifestly evil and antithesis of Islam. They see secularism as toxic to Islam in Pakistan. In UK apparently secularism, multiculturism and Islam are natural partners.

 

[Desert Fox]

Gunsche.

That's the guy.

The people who regularly condemn the Nazis are the ones who label us Pakistanis intolerant for not recognizing Israel.
For them what the Zionists have done so far is acceptable.

That is true. Even our so called Pakistani "Liberals" encourage Pakistan recognizing Israel, despite Israel has every characteristic of "Nazism", the most obvious one which is ethnic cleansing Palestinians from their ancestral land for "Lebensraum" for Jewish settlers. "Liberals" don't care, they only bow to the dominant power. When Communism was the "big thing" these "Liberals" were Commies, now they changed their skin when the old ship sank.

Fact of the matter is people bow down to the victor, regardless of how brutal and tyrannical the victor maybe. This is a psychological fact. If Hitler had won WW2 the very people talking smack about him on this thread would have been praising him and shitt!ing on Liberalism instead . It's easy (and cowardly not to mention) to talk smack about the defeated and view them through the lens of the victor. But it's difficult and requires courage to view history from an unbiased perspective.

For them what the capitalist, the commies and their stooges did across the globe is somehow less vile than what the Nazis did. Their double standards and their holier than thou attitude is sickening. They don't have the gall to look at the dirty laundry of their own governments. They will only condemn the genocides committed by ISIS or the Nazis, not the ones carried out by their own governments. They just follow the mainstream narrative like sheep, mere sheep.

If one looks closely at the root cause of every major problem in our recent history one will see Capitalism (and thus Liberalism) as it's source. ISIS was the creation of Western backed Arab Leaders (who BTW live very lavish Liberal lifestyles whilst the average Arab has to abide by Shariah) who with the help of Western intel. agencies then train and fund groups like ISIS whilst Capitalist war profiteers provide the weapons and make $Billions$.

View attachment 356201

More and more average Westerners have realized this truth and are not willing to fight for their governments. This is why the saber rattling against Russia (which today is unofficially an Orthodox Nationalist nation that espouses traditional values) all throughout the West has had very little effect on the people. More and more average Westerners are beginning to detest what their governments are pushing for and now resent their own governments (thus the increase in anti-establishment Right Wing popularity).

I have read these.... very gripping
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I will definitely give these a read starting with the legendary Otto Skorzeny's book. Despite what some said about his age and physical fitness he proved to be one hell of a soldier.

Have you watched "Downfall"

Yeah i've seen it. I have to say it was perhaps one of the very few movies which accurately depicted Hitler even if it was about his final days in the Berlin bunker.

Fair enough. But please note that I am not attacking you, I am attacking what I think is your ideology and your POV. I respect all individuals (well most), not the least someone as clearly intelligent as you. I find your philosophy condemnable,but that is not to say I disrecpect you. Not my style.

We started off on the wrong foot therefore i take back my harsh words as well. I'm not sure if you've ever had the privilege of witnessing an antifa "demonstration" but these people have a very violent tendency and stoop to the lowest of levels to disturb the peace of others when things don't go their way (like the recent American elections). Not to mention they physically attack those with opposing political views and try to shut them down for simply holding a meeting (like the old WW2 veterans). I have no sympathy for these types of people who stoop to the level of beasts. But i respect your opinion if you believe otherwise even if i disagree with you.

Looks like we disagree again.... The novel is good, the film is good too and (totally different and irrelevant point) the director is iconic.

Well, in that case we can agree to disagree. I personally thought the film was condensed and the sequence of events was different from the book, but this is mostly the case with any movie based on a book.

 

[Psychic]

That is something there is no shortage of that. East, West, North or South. I just was just listening to a Muslim group discussing Islam in UK. They sounded the biggest supporters of multi-culturalism in UK. Clearly having a secular, diverse, multicultural society is good for Islam. The same bunch in Pakistan will decalre secularism as manifestly evil and antithesis of Islam. They see secularism as toxic to Islam in Pakistan. In UK apparently secularism, multiculturism and Islam are natural partners.

Basically they can't enforce sharia in a religiously diverse society. Still you will find an occasional Anjem Chaudry.

Every society has to choose a system which best reflects their culture, social values, traditions, and religion. What's good for the West might end up in a disaster if applied in the East and vice versa.
In the West, everything is not honky dory. There are many so-called secular laws in the West which have destroyed the institution of the family, the Western people need to figure that out themselves. What we Pakistanis need to do is to copy the good things from the West like education, infrastructure, law and order, sectarian tolerance, sanitation, clean water supply etc which are our core problems instead of granting a legal status to moral vices such as homosexuality, alcohol, gambling and prostitution. These have not done anything good to the Western society and won't do any good to us if we are to legalize them in our relatively conservative society.

With that being said, the real sharia is not what you see in the KSA where one cannot criticize the monarchs without getting his rear end whipped. The problem is that the majority of the mullahs believe in an adulterated version of sharia. They mix many of the medieval Semite laws with sharia without realizing that only a few of those laws are Islamic in essence. The rest of those so called sharia laws were the Semite laws which every Muslim,Jew, Christian, and pagan followed in the middle ages.
The Mullahs are chasing mirages instead of focusing on the real problems related to Islam like the abolition of usury, getting rid of the corruption, and establishing a better system of governance.

This is why the saber rattling against Russia (which today is unofficially an Orthodox Nationalist nation that espouses traditional values) all throughout the West has had very little effect on the people. More and more average Westerners are beginning to detest what their governments are pushing for and now resent their own governments (thus the increase in anti-establishment Right Wing popularity).

" Ever since the fall of the Soviet Union, the Russian state has carefully nurtured its relationship with the Church. Putin especially is not only a powerful political actor but – like the Tsars – a religious one. In his speeches he presents himself as defender of Christian values abandoned by the degenerate West. "

Putin criticized the moral degeneracy of the West in many of his speeches. Russia is now a totally different country as compared to the Soviet Union of the past. Religion has been freed in Russia and most of the Russians proudly identify their religion.

When Communism was the "big thing" these "Liberals" were Commies, now they changed their skin when the old ship sank.

That's true for their kin in Pakistan. When the USSR invaded Afghanistan, these local reds used to taunt the regular folk that the red storm is coming and you will soon be Rahmanov, Karimov, and Sultanov and that the Soviets do not leave any place on which their armies step their feet and soon there will be a revolution in Pakistan. What happened after the Soviet withdrawal was that these same guys started saying that the Soviets weren't here for warm waters and they posed no threat to us and we fought America's war and blah blah blah. Now they are known as the liberals in Pakistan who are unwilling to tolerate burka and beard.

That is true. Even our so called Pakistani "Liberals" encourage Pakistan recognizing Israel, despite Israel has every characteristic of "Nazism", the most obvious one which is ethnic cleansing Palestinians from their ancestral land for "Lebensraum" for Jewish settlers

I do not condone any of the Nazi concepts like living space, master race and the persecution of the jews and I won't ever defend those concepts. However with that being said, many of the crimes committed by the Nazi regime were blown out of proportions by the victors.

It is disturbing to see people defending Israel even when the members of the Knesset openly advocate the genocide of the Palestinian people.
The logic of many of those people when they advocate for diplomatic relations with Israel is that 'we can learn a lot from them if we make relations with them'. Apparently what we can learn from them can't be learnt from scores of other nations?

 

[Desert Fox]

Basically they can't enforce sharia in a religiously diverse society. Still you will find an occasional Anjem Chaudry.

Every society has to choose a system which best reflects their culture, social values, traditions, and religion. What's good for the West might end up in a disaster if applied in the East and vice versa.
In the West, everything is not honky dory. There are many so-called secular laws in the West which have destroyed the institution of the family, the Western people need to figure that out themselves. What we Pakistanis need to do is to copy the good things from the West like education, infrastructure, law and order, sectarian tolerance, sanitation, clean water supply etc which are our core problems instead of granting a legal status to moral vices such as homosexuality, alcohol, gambling and prostitution. These have not done anything good to the Western society and won't do any good to us if we are to legalize them in our relatively conservative society.

With that being said, the real sharia is not what you see in the KSA where one cannot criticize the monarchs without getting his rear end whipped. The problem is that the majority of the mullahs believe in an adulterated version of sharia. They mix many of the medieval Semite laws with sharia without realizing that only a few of those laws are Islamic in essence. The rest of those so called sharia laws were the Semite laws which every Muslim,Jew, Christian, and pagan followed in the middle ages.
The Mullahs are chasing mirages instead of focusing on the real problems related to Islam like the abolition of usury, getting rid of the corruption, and establishing a better system of governance.

This is true. Every nation has a cultural and political experience of its own and thus their system of governance will reflect this. It is foolish to think that what works well for one country can work exactly the same way for another. If that were the case we would see carbon copies of Norway in every country the American boot set foot in to spread "freedom" and "democracy".

" Ever since the fall of the Soviet Union, the Russian state has carefully nurtured its relationship with the Church. Putin especially is not only a powerful political actor but – like the Tsars – a religious one. In his speeches he presents himself as defender of Christian values abandoned by the degenerate West. "

Putin criticized the moral degeneracy of the West in many of his speeches. Russia is now a totally different country as compared to the Soviet Union of the past. Religion has been freed in Russia and most of the Russians proudly identify their religion.

The roles have been reversed basically (but don't tell this to an American "liberal", many of them still think Russia is Communist and thus refuse to criticize Putin ).

That's true for their kin in Pakistan. When the USSR invaded Afghanistan, these local reds used to taunt the regular folk that the red storm is coming and you will soon be Rahmanov, Karimov, and Sultanov and that the Soviets do not leave any place on which their armies step their feet and soon there will be a revolution in Pakistan. What happened after the Soviet withdrawal was that these same guys started saying that the Soviets weren't here for warm waters and they posed no threat to us and we fought America's war and blah blah blah. Now they are known as the liberals in Pakistan who are unwilling to tolerate burka and beard.

It's the same in the West. These "Liberals" go by many names which includes "progressives" among others, but they're really just Marxists and some do openly confess this. The mere concept of "political correctness" and "hate speech" was introduced by the Marxist school of thought The Frankfurt School who's members were originally from Frankfurt, Germany (as the name suggests) though they fled Germany following Hitler's victory in the 1933 election and settled in America from where they then infiltrated colleges and universities as professors (and thus indoctrinated millions of impressionable university students and every generation since).

These "hate speech" laws and "political correctness" are alien to the original Liberalism which actually encouraged discourse between opposing views wherein the best and most logical argument would come out on top, leading to true progress. This is in stark contrast to Marxist view of freedom of speech and expression where any views deemed politically incorrect by the establishment will be silenced and the individual(s) espousing those views face severe repercussions.

I do not condone any of the Nazi concepts like living space, master race and the persecution of the jews and I won't ever defend those concepts. However with that being said, many of the crimes committed by the Nazi regime were blown out of proportions by the victors.

This is true. Allot was exaggerated by the victors and some was even concocted and reopening new investigations into many of these alleged war crimes is banned under the plethora of "anti-hate" laws within European countries which makes it all the more impossible to come to a honest interpretation of history of that era.

It is disturbing to see people defending Israel even when the members of the Knesset openly advocate the genocide of the Palestinian people.
The logic of many of those people when they advocate for diplomatic relations with Israel is that 'we can learn a lot from them if we make relations with them'. Apparently what we can learn from them can't be learnt from scores of other nations?

It's simple, Zionism wields incredible power and influence, and thus those who condemn Hitler and the Nazis will not hesitate to bow before "almighty" Zionism because such people worship the dominant power, regardless of the fact that Zionists are ethnic cleansing Palestinians for "Lebensraum".

 

[Desert Fox]

Western order

You being a benefactor of that order would praise it as the lesser of evils. Lets ask the Iraqis, Palestinians, Cambodians, Vietnamese how good things have been.

 

[Psychic]

The roles have been reversed basically (but don't tell this to an American "liberal", many of them still think Russia is Communist and thus refuse to criticize Putin

LoL.

It's the same in the West. These "Liberals" go by many names which includes "progressives" among others, but they're really just Marxists and some do openly confess this. The mere concept of "political correctness" and "hate speech" was introduced by the Marxist school of thought The Frankfurt School who's members were originally from Frankfurt, Germany (as the name suggests) though they fled Germany following Hitler's victory in the 1933 election and settled in America from where they then infiltrated colleges and universities as professors (and thus indoctrinated millions of impressionable university students and every generation since).

Here, they were known by the names like "taraqi passand" and "roshan khayyal". They included People like Faiz Ahmad Faiz who were awarded the order of Lenin.
Pity they didn't get any support from the masses

Now they are with the capitalist world. They switched sides after the fall of the USSR. Now these people and their followers are known as liberals and seculars. They enjoy support among some of our 'burger class' families.

 

[Desert Fox]

LoL.

Here, they were known by the names like "taraqi passand" and "roshan khayyal". They included People like Faiz Ahmad Faiz who were awarded the order of Lenin.
Pity they didn't get any support from the masses

and that's the irony of it all; they are the complete opposite of what they call themselves.

These "progressives"/"liberals" (in reality they are neither) are completely out of touch with reality, they live in their own little world which is why they can't see eye-to-eye with the common man. It sucks for them that even the traditional bastions of "Liberalism" in the West are beginning to reject this vile ideology in all its forms.

Now they are with the capitalist world. They switched sides after the fall of the USSR. Now these people and their followers are known as liberals and seculars. They enjoy support among some of our 'burger class' families.

These people have no standards. They don't genuinely believe in anything they claim to stand for. They only prostrate before the dominant power of the day. Had Hitler won WW2 they'd probably be kissing up to him too.

Leon Degrelle perfectly describes these people in his famous book (they even existed in those times, would you look at that ) :

"Among those who had insulted Hitler in 1939 were many who would be the most eager to throw themselves at the feet of the conqueror in 1940 — the heads of the great parties of the Left, the financial magnates, the owners of the largest newspapers, the Masonic ministers of state, the former government — all of them wanted, sought, desired an opportunity for collaboration (with the Nazis)."

https://archive.org/details/Campaign-in-Russia-Leon-Degrelle#maincontent

 

[EyelessInGaza]

......We started off on the wrong foot therefore i take back my harsh words as well. I'm not sure if you've ever had the privilege of witnessing an antifa "demonstration" but these people have a very violent tendency and stoop to the lowest of levels to disturb the peace of others when things don't go their way (like the recent American elections). Not to mention they physically attack those with opposing political views and try to shut them down for simply holding a meeting (like the old WW2 veterans). I have no sympathy for these types of people who stoop to the level of beasts. But i respect your opinion if you believe otherwise even if i disagree with you.


Well, in that case we can agree to disagree. I personally thought the film was condensed and the sequence of events was different from the book, but this is mostly the case with any movie based on a book.

Apologies for the late reply- I was hiking in my old age, well late middle age, and had while I had enough access to the net when to note your post, it was not enough to formulate a considered reply.

I haven't seen an antifascist demonstration, but will take your word for it.

I will explain my antipathy for anything that extols the Nazi war machine at a later date, but in the meanwhile it's been such a pleasure reading your posts on the subject. Clearly, despite our differing views, you have a well read perspective and you can't believe how much fun it is for me to read someone who knows their subject, as opposed to the many (if not most) who read a book or two, or a pamphlet or two, and think they know it all.

We should start a thread on discussing WWI,and the the years that followed up to and through WWII.

And last speaking of books, have you read Ernst Junger's WWI memoir, Storm of Steel? A fascinating man and his book is regarded as a classic. He was a great influence (apparently) on German militarism post 1918, and indirectly on some leaders of the Nazi movement, although he himself remained dismissive of Hitler.