Germany plans to develop new fighter jet to replace Tornado

[Zarvan]

BERLIN (Reuters) - Germany plans to develop a new fighter jet to replace Tornado jets in the long term and it aims to hold initial talks with European partners in 2016 about what features they want in the aircraft, according to a document seen by Reuters on Sunday.

A draft document from the Defence Ministry on 'military aviation strategy' said it was still unclear whether the new jet would be manned or unmanned. It said it was also possible that the jet would be designed for both options and then be flown with or without a pilot depending on the type of deployment.

As it would be a European project, it is likely that one or more European companies would be chosen to develop the jet. The Tornado jet, which Germany has been using since 1981 - although it now also has the newer Eurofighter jet - was also made in an international consortium called Panavia.

At the same time, Germany's armed forces are looking into whether it would be possible to extend usage of the Tornado jets into the mid-2030s, the paper said.

The Tornado jets had been due to be phased out in the mid-2020s.

A spokesman for the Defence Ministry said the document had not yet been agreed with the other ministries so he could not comment on it.



(Reporting by Sabine Siebold; Writing by Michelle Martin; Editing by Ruth Pitchford)

Germany plans to develop new fighter jet to replace Tornado

 

[Khafee]

@Blue Marlin @Taygibay @Penguin EF not good enough? What do you make of this news?

 

[Audio]

lol...by the time it gets certified for pregnant women.....

but seriously, this is ambitious for Germany, even too ambitious and could just serve as making a lot of fuss and noise to get onboard with French/UK UCAV programme for which they both expressed desire to not have too many nations as participants as that slows things down and makes them more expensive with having to take into account each nations priorities.

Also, here it has to be noted that a "core" group of present German Tornado's have been upgraded through the years, the ones that are designated to carry nuclear missions. An austere version of events would be that these planes would be further modernized.

Currently, those 85 Tornado aircraft which will be kept in service are being upgraded under various programmes at a cost of approximately € 900 million. All of these upgrades are scheduled to be completed by 2017. Such a large effort only makes sense if the intention is to operate the Tornado beyond 2025. Since all of these programmes were initiated years ago, the intention to fly these aircraft beyond then must have also existed a long time ago. The main programme is called "Avionics System Software for Tornado in Ada 3" (ASSTA 3). Within this programme. among other things, the communication systems and electronic warfare and jamming capabilities are upgraded, the night vision capability is enhanced, some cockpit displays are exchanged and a laser-guided precision bomb, the GBU -54 (V) 3 (LJDAM) is integrated to enable the Tornado to engage moving targets under all kinds of weather conditions. By August 15, 2012, the German Air Force received the first of these modernised aircraft.

Germany’s Tornado Nuclear Weapons Carrier

 

[Zarvan]

@Blue Marlin @Taygibay @Penguin EF not good enough? What do you make of this news?

I think they want to design a jet sepecific for bombing role or in other words they want a bomber.

 

[IndoUS]

So Germnay is opting for a pure bomber, I guess it makes sense considering most of the wars it has participated in the current decade have been against terrorists outfits that don't have an air force.

 

[ultron]

I thought Typhoon is supposed to replace Tornado.

 

[Oldman1]

I thought Typhoon is supposed to replace Tornado.

Probably need a long range bomber.

 

[nvKyleBrown]

? with what money? they have the most underfunded military in Europe already.

 

[Reashot Xigwin]

? with what money? they have the most underfunded military in Europe already.

True and lest not mentions that Germany have one of the most gentrified armed forces in the world.

 

[Penguin]

@Blue Marlin @Taygibay @Penguin EF not good enough? What do you make of this news?

On 26 March 1969, four partner nations – United Kingdom, Germany, Italy and the Netherlands, agreed to form a multinational company, Panavia Aircraft GmbH, to develop and manufacture the MRCA [multirole combat aircraft]. The project's aim was to produce an aircraft capable of undertaking missions in the tactical strike, reconnaissance, air defence, and maritime roles; thus allowing the MRCA to replace several different aircraft then in use by the partner nations
The Panavia Tornado is a multirole, twin-engined aircraft designed to excel at low-level penetration of enemy defences.
As a multirole aircraft, the Tornado is capable of undertaking more mission profiles than the anticipated strike mission; various operators replaced multiple aircraft types with the Tornado as a common type – the use of dedicated single role aircraft for specialist purposes such as battlefield reconnaissance, maritime patrol duties, or dedicated electronic countermeasures (ECM) were phased out – either by standard Tornados or modified variants, such as the Tornado ECR. The most extensive modification from the base Tornado design was the Tornado ADV, which was stretched and armed with long range anti-aircraft missiles to serve in the interceptor role.

In 1983, Italy, Germany, France, the UK and Spain launched the "Future European Fighter Aircraft" (FEFA) programme. The aircraft was to have short take off and landing (STOL) and beyond visual range (BVR) capabilities. The Eurofighter Typhoon is also a highly agile aircraft, designed to be a supremely effective dogfighter when in combat with other aircraft. Later production aircraft have been increasingly better equipped to undertake air-to-surface strike missions and to be compatible with a likewise increasing number of different armaments and equipment. Development of the aircraft effectively began in 1983. In production since 1994.

It is not a matter of Typhoon not being good enough. It is a matter of what roles do you need fullfilled. Low-level penetration has to a smaller or large extent been taken over by use of long range stand-off weapons. But strike, sead etc still need to be done. And Tornado is reaching the end of its life.

Likewise why have a Su-34 when you have Su27/30 etc?

? with what money? they have the most underfunded military in Europe already.

A new aircraft will be a multinational one. I doubt any European country can afford to develop its own aircraft alone anymore (including France, Sweden). Plus, smaller countries will have already opted for F-16 replacement in the form of F-35. I'm not yet seeing UK, France, Germany moving towards F-35A variant yet (unlike Italy, which is getting A and B).

 

[Taygibay]

EF not good enough? What do you make of this news?

Positioning.

The German are not engaged for the F-35. They're also having problems with the EF.
Meanwhile, the FCAS is clearly the only active European program for replacement of main aerial combat vector.
By declaring their intent to build a new fighter, they are building up an excuse to join in it.

Penguin rightfully referred to the genesis of what is now the Typhoon, reminding some that if today we mostly
discuss how France left it ( yeah us BTW, so glad we did ), it began with national projects that were federated.
The German project was then called TKF 90. The group that emerged once France desisted was then the
same as that from the Panavia adventure with Spain joining later. Thus their last 2 jets came that way.

They know very well that they cannot build a fighter alone anymore. Besides, they'd be late if they succeeded.
This is a way to gain inclusion into the quite possible extension to European participation in the FCAS.
As things stand, newcomers would be minor players to the already constituted Franco-British team.
The Deutsch hope is that having a full replacement program can gather a full partner status eventually.
Without it, they'll play second fiddle just as those in the nEUROn did to Dassault which they can't stand.

Positioning.

Good day gang, Tay.

 

[Blue Marlin]

EF not good enough? What do you make of this news?

for goodness sake were gonna make a jet with those guy's again[germany]. let me guess, its going to be a huge european project where germany will initailally order a lot in get a big stake and then a few years later it will reduce the order and retain it's stake, everyone complains about the stake size, germany threatens to leave, politics brings everything back again. in the end germany does not budge. @mike2000 is back @FrenchPilot would you agree and say the uk and france should just do it as a duo and germany can work with other european partners such as spain and sweden.

 

[Vergennes]

for goodness sake were gonna make a jet with those guy's again[germany]. let me guess, its going to be a huge european project where germany will initailally order a lot in get a big stake and then a few years later it will reduce the order and retain it's stake, everyone complains about the stake size, germany threatens to leave, politics brings everything back again. in the end germany does not budge. @mike2000 is back @FrenchPilot would you agree and say the uk and france should just do it as a duo and germany can work with other european partners such as spain and sweden.

I agree 100% with you my friend.
It's not that i don't like our German brothers,but we must stay away from them councerning military programs.
I am pretty sure that the Euro UAV will be a total fiasco. @flamer84
I prefer that we go solo,or at least cooperate with serious partners like the UK.

 

[Blue Marlin]

I agree 100% with you my friend.
It's not that i don't like our German brothers,but we must stay away from them councerning military programs.
I am pretty sure that the Euro UAV will be a total fiasco. @flamer84
I prefer that we go solo,or at least cooperate with serious partners like the UK.

indeed.
im not a fan of germany leading projects.
we have our own uav project. the taranis. i think you guy are joining in on that. but i think its only france. im not sure on that.

 

[Vergennes]

indeed.
im not a fan of germany leading projects.

No offence to anybody,but Germany leading a military project is like some country like Saudi Arabia leading a project for human rights.

we have our own uav project. the taranis. i think you guy are joining in on that. but i think its only france. im not sure on that.

You have the Taranis and we have the neuron,if we unite together,we can make a deadly UCAV if not better than the American one. @mike2000 is back
It was written on the SDSR that the UK will cooperate with France on complex weapons,the coming years are going to be interesting.