Germany plans to develop new fighter jet to replace Tornado

[Blue Marlin]

No offence to anybody,but Germany leading a military project is like some country like Saudi Arabia leading a project for human rights.



You have the Taranis and we have the neuron,if we unite together,we can make a deadly UCAV if not better than the American one. @mike2000 is back
It was written on the SDSR that the UK will cooperate with France on complex weapons,the coming years are going to be interesting.

i can't beleve you put saudi arabia and human rights in the same sentance. but the analogy makes sense.
well if is just a cooperation then thats good.

how long will it take for for a project to replace the eft.

 

[mike2000 is back]

for goodness sake were gonna make a jet with those guy's again[germany]. let me guess, its going to be a huge european project where germany will initailally order a lot in get a big stake and then a few years later it will reduce the order and retain it's stake, everyone complains about the stake size, germany threatens to leave, politics brings everything back again. in the end germany does not budge. @mike2000 is back @FrenchPilot would you agree and say the uk and france should just do it as a duo and germany can work with other european partners such as spain and sweden.

I agree 100%. We should have built the typhoon solo, just like France did with the Dassualt Rafale. bringing in Germany was a big mistake. since they not only wanted(and gained) the same stake in the project like Britain by ordering the same number of jets , just so they can get the same stake in it like we do, only to reduce it later (which was their original intention all along). We would have done a fa better job with the Typhoon had BAE built it alone anyway. Afterall,we still have a MASSIVE defence sector, a massive financial sector (which is in no more double than the many big nations combined ), architecture, education, entertainment (all media), plant equipment, engine design (both piston and turbine), for example foreign content on the Swedish Gripen (from UK and US) is over 35-40%, I could go on all day.

This should be a big lesson to our leaders who always think by bringing in other European partners like Germany will be good overall for the U.K/Europe and it will help save 'costs'. The only real trustworthy partner we have in Europe is France when it comes to military projects. We should stick with them, no more bundeswehr and their blackmail.

lol...by the time it gets certified for pregnant women.....

but seriously, this is ambitious for Germany, even too ambitious and could just serve as making a lot of fuss and noise to get onboard with French/UK UCAV programme for which they both expressed desire to not have too many nations as participants as that slows things down and makes them more expensive with having to take into account each nations priorities.

Also, here it has to be noted that a "core" group of present German Tornado's have been upgraded through the years, the ones that are designated to carry nuclear missions. An austere version of events would be that these planes would be further modernized.



Germany’s Tornado Nuclear Weapons Carrier

We don't want any Germany in our Franco-British UCAV program please. They will only complicate things/slow us down even more.

No offence to anybody,but Germany leading a military project is like some country like Saudi Arabia leading a project for human rights.

ahahahhahaha..............That cracked me up.
But its true i'm afraid.

 

[flamer84]

I agree 100% with you my friend.
It's not that i don't like our German brothers,but we must stay away from them councerning military programs.
I am pretty sure that the Euro UAV will be a total fiasco. @flamer84
I prefer that we go solo,or at least cooperate with serious partners like the UK.

First of all this is an idiotic project from the start.Why develop a dedicated bomber in this day and age ? A good ideea would have been a European 5th generation fighter but as this is to ambitious and somehow unnecessary they should have ordered 80-90 new Typhoons and further upgrade the 143 ordered ones.

I mean,the Typhoon project is kind of stuck with countries refusing to upgrade their fighters with AG capabilities,AESA,etc and they're thinking of wasting money in another long term,multinational project ?

 

[mike2000 is back]

First of all this is an idiotic project from the start.Why develop a dedicated bomber in this day and age ? A good ideea would have been a European 5th generation fighter but as this is to ambitious and somehow unnecessary they should have ordered 80-90 new Typhoons and further upgrade the 143 ordered ones.

I mean,the Typhoon project is kind of stuck with countries refusing to upgrade their fighters with AG capabilities,AESA,etc and they're thinking of wasting money in another long term,multinational project ?

To be honest, Germany should be Europe's spokesman/chief diplomat in charge of spreading Europe's human rights/values globally. That title will suit them better.

 

[Audio]

lmao, the self-righteous circle jerk of French and Britishers!!! Jeez....like Germans have the bubonic plague....

 

[Taygibay]

Our armies are functional, man! On a mil forum as IRL, it allows for "jerking" space.
And the Germans are not sick per say but plans for future nuclear bombers will get
contagious for the anti fringe. Just with those, the progress will be fun to watch!

Pop-corn anyone?

Good day, keep smiling, Tay.

 

[Penguin]

No offence to anybody,but Germany leading a military project is like some country like Saudi Arabia leading a project for human rights.

"Four partner nations – United Kingdom, Germany, Italy and the Netherlands, agreed to form a multinational company, Panavia Aircraft GmbH, to develop and manufacture the MRCA"
Note the use PARTNERS in combinatino with GMBH (Gesellschaft mit beschränkter Haftung i.e. a GERMAN based Private Limited Company aka société privée à responsabilité limitée.)

FROM

Panavia Aircraft GmbH is a multinational company established by the three partner nations of the Tornado Multi Role Combat Aircraft (MRCA) project, West Germany, Italy and the UK.

The company was based and registered in West Germany. Since its founding the company is based in Hallbergmoos, a municipality in the district of Freising in Bavaria, Germany.

In a similar arrangement, development of the Tornado's RB199 turbofans is undertaken by the multinational Turbo-Union Ltd based in the UK.

The partner companies are

• 42.5% EADS Deutschland GmbH
• 42.5% BAE Systems plc
• 15% Alenia Aeronautica S.p.A. (a division of Finmeccanica)

Panavia Aircraft GmbH - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

TO

Eurofighter Jagdflugzeug GmbH (English: Eurofighter Fighter aircraft GmbH) is a multinational company that co-ordinates the design, production and upgrade of the Eurofighter Typhoon, this includes incorporating the jet engines designed and manufactured by EuroJet Turbo GmbH.

Founded in 1986,[citation needed] it has its head office in Hallbergmoos, Bavaria, Germany.[1] The company is owned by the major aerospace companies of the four Eurofighter partner nations:

• 46%: Airbus Defence and Space (then known as EADS)
• 33%: BAE Systems Military Air & Information (United Kingdom)
• 21%: Alenia Aermacchi (Italy)

Eurofighter GmbH's customer is the NATO Eurofighter and Tornado Management Agency (NETMA), operating on behalf of the partner nations. This collaborative management model follows that of the Tornado programme closely. In that case Panavia Aircraft GmbH was responsible for delivering the weapon system, and the UK registered Turbo-Union Ltd. was responsible for the propulsion system.

Eurofighter GmbH - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I think it is pretty clear who leads here.

Likewise

NHIndustries (NHI) is a helicopter manufacturing company established in 1992 by Eurocopter of France and Germany (now Airbus Helicopters), Agusta of Italy (now AgustaWestland) and Stork Fokker Aerospace of the Netherlands (now Fokker Aerostructures). NHI was specifically established to be NATO Helicopter Management Agency's prime contractor for the design and development, industrialisation, production and logistic support of the NHIndustries NH90 series of helicopters

The company is owned by:

Airbus Helicopters (62.5%)
AgustaWestland (32%)
Fokker Aerostructures (5.5%)

 

[Khafee]

Our armies are functional, man! On a mil forum as IRL, it allows for "jerking" space.
And the Germans are not sick per say but plans for future nuclear bombers will get
contagious for the anti fringe. Just with those, the progress will be fun to watch!

Pop-corn anyone?

Good day, keep smiling, Tay.

I already got mine

 

[Penguin]

First of all this is an idiotic project from the start.Why develop a dedicated bomber in this day and age ? A good ideea would have been a European 5th generation fighter but as this is to ambitious and somehow unnecessary they should have ordered 80-90 new Typhoons and further upgrade the 143 ordered ones.

I mean,the Typhoon project is kind of stuck with countries refusing to upgrade their fighters with AG capabilities,AESA,etc and they're thinking of wasting money in another long term,multinational project ?

Tornado is a multirole combat ATTACK aircraft, that does the following duties:
- Interceptor (this is different from e.g. dogfighting)
- SEAD
- reconnaissance
- maritime strike

The Typhoon is a multi-role FIGHTER with maturing air-to-ground capabilities. The initial absence of air-to-ground capability is believed to have been a factor in the type's rejection from Singapore's fighter competition in 2005.
See eg Eurofighter Typhoon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Tornado is nearing the end of its service life. Production ceased in 1998, about 20 years after is first being inducted. It is a late 1960s design. You can either phase it out and fill the gap with more Typhoon, a late 1970s-early 1980s design which is in service now for about 10 years, or your can start working on a next generation plane now, and hope that in 5-10 years, you have a top of the line successor plane.

I know what I would choose. If I had an aircraft industry that I wanted to keep.

 

[flamer84]

Tornado is nearing the end of its service life. Production ceased in 1998, about 20 years after is first being inducted. It is a late 1960s design. You can either phase it out and fill the gap with more Typhoon, a late 1970s-early 1980s design which is in service now for about 10 years, or your can start working on a next generation plane now, and hope that in 5-10 years, you have a top of the line successor plane

Eurofighter took some 20+ years for the first series planes to roll out and you're hoping for a successor to Tornado in 5-10 years ? He he he,good luck with that

 

[Penguin]

The Future Offensive Aircraft (FOA), a project founded on the assumpion that the UK
would need to replace its fleet of Tornado GR.4 interdictor strike aircraft early in the 21st century.
(Source: BAe)

The Future Offensive Air System was a study which sought to replace the Royal Air Force's strike capability currently provided by the Tornado GR4. Initial operation capability was expected around 2017. The FOAS was cancelled in June 2005[1] and was replaced by the Deep and Persistent Offensive Capability (DPOC) requirement, which was itself cancelled in the 2010 SDSR. In 2012 France signed an MoU to join the RAF's latest programme for an unmanned Future Combat Air System (FCAS), which will likely be based on BAE's Taranis demonstrator and on the Dassault nEURON demonstrator.

Future Offensive Air System - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

BAe Replica

Replica was a design study for a British military aircraft with stealth capabilities, developed by BAE Systems. It was associated with the Royal Air Force's now cancelled Future Offensive Air System. The Replica project is known to have run from 1994 to 1999 building a full size model and subjected to a rigorous test regime to determine its radar cross section. It is widely believed that Replica may have been intended to replace the Panavia Tornado from 2017 onwards. Experience from the program was later rolled into the Joint Strike Fighter program, which essentially replaced Replica.

BAE Replica - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In July 2014 the House of Common Defence Select Committee released a report on the RAF future force structure that envisaged a mixture of unmanned and manned platforms, including a UCAV such as Taranis and further orders of F-35s, a service life extension for the Eurofighter (which would otherwise end its service in 2030) or a possible new manned aircraft.

Royal Air Force - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Eurofighter took some 20+ years for the first series planes to roll out and you're hoping for a successor to Tornado in 5-10 years ? He he he,good luck with that

I'm not hoping for anything because my air forces has already decied on F35A as their only future combat aircraft. So, for me, it doesn't really matter.

Meanwhile, you think they've not been working on something in the private sector already? See post on RAF, for example.

Eurofighter took some 20+ years for the first series planes to roll out and you're hoping for a successor to Tornado in 5-10 years ? He he he,good luck with that

I'm not hoping for anything anymore: my country has already chosen F-35A as its future aircraft.
Still, who says the private sector isn't already working on something? Please not RAf is already considering Typhoon successor. It is just a matter of bringing government/military requirements together close enough and then assemble a consortium. But key question will be: can you get the hand together for another manned combat aircraft (considering missile and UCAV technology).

Still, Tornado has some rather unique abilities - carrying 6 tonnes of weapons, at 900mph, at tree top height, in the night, in any weather, comfortable for crew and able to operate from rough airstrips - to replace. There is nothing else in the world as fast at low level.

 

[Oublious]

I agree 100%. We should have built the typhoon solo, just like France did with the Dassualt Rafale. bringing in Germany was a big mistake. since they not only wanted(and gained) the same stake in the project like Britain by ordering the same number of jets , just so they can get the same stake in it like we do, only to reduce it later (which was their original intention all along). We would have done a fa better job with the Typhoon had BAE built it alone anyway. Afterall,we still have a MASSIVE defence sector, a massive financial sector (which is in no more double than the many big nations combined ), architecture, education, entertainment (all media), plant equipment, engine design (both piston and turbine), for example foreign content on the Swedish Gripen (from UK and US) is over 35-40%, I could go on all day.


But its true i'm afraid.

I have to put it here right, your indusrty sucks if we compare it with germany. If you are talking about avionica you are better then the germans. You need Germany and they need you, i can not imagine what would come out with out germany.