Germany anti-Islam protests: Cologne Cathedral to switch of lights in protest against Pegida

[Judge]

Probably not.
Such a restriction would constitute discrimination based on religion which would be against German law.

The restriction would have to be based on something more than just being Muslim.

The German law forbids discrimination of its own citizens by the State based on their religion. The Germans have full legal right to discriminate as to who to allow or where to allow immigration from.

 

[Developereo]

The real intent behind all of this is to tighten the immigration and stop more immigration of Muslims/from Muslim countries.
Eventually I see this will happen.

It may well happen but it will be implemented using convoluted logic whose end result may be to ban/restrict immigration from mostly Muslim countries.

 

[Developereo]

The German law forbids discrimination of its own citizens by the State based on their religion. The Germans have full legal right to discriminate as to who to allow or where to allow immigration from.

Depends how the German Constitution is worded.

 

[Judge]

Typical apu mentality, believe me these Germans who are protesting are not found of likes you either.

That may well be true, but how is that related?
Its a question of principle.

I support the right of Germans to decide who to let in and who not to. If the citizenry of Germany feels that Muslims(or Indians for that matter) are not compatible with the values of Germany/Europe, they have the legal right to stop them from entering Germany, stop them from becoming citizens.

And the people of Pakistan and others from Muslim countries with some rare and good exceptions(Turkey, Bangladesh, Indonesia,etc) are on really weak grounds to ask for any form of equality when their own countries don't give it to others. Hypocrisy abounds amongst these lots.

 

[Zarvan]

Horus, as Desert Fox said, its not against average Muslims, but Islamists.

But even if it is against Muslims, Germans have full legal right to restrict the immigration of Muslims into their country and protest against Muslims.

Are you suggesting this should be outlawed?

My question is How they plan to restrict converts ? The guy I mentioned Pierre Vogel has been able to convert 10000 in last 8 to 10 years and most are Salafi. Germany is again trying to adopt ways of Hitler which would only end up hurting them.

 

[Aepsilons]

Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. Or more easily put, when Muslim extremists form squads of "Shariah police" in German cities to enforce Shariah, or when Sunnis and Shia's, kurds and ISIS supporters bring their sectarian and political wars into the streets of German cities and elsewhere in Europe, then they will not only feed right wing sentiments but also justify what you call "racism", "xenophobia", etc...

Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. Germans, and European as a whole are very intelligent, very tolerant, and respectful people. Its the pathetic immigrants who abuse the hospitality of their European hosts who are responsible for the growing xenophobia.

Very well said, Sir. You offer a robust point of view. I would only say that these protesters need to understand the difference between Muslims and Terrorist supporters. There is a HUGE difference and they should not generalize the Muslims with that lot.

Other than that, I agree with your points.

 

[Judge]

Depends how the German Constitution is worded.

True.
You can be sure that this would be going to their courts soon enough..and if it fails the test there, the Constitution can be amended if the demand becomes widespread.

My question is How they plan to restrict converts ? The guy I mentioned Pierre Vogel has been able to convert 10000 in last 8 to 10 years and most are Salafi. Germany is again trying to adopt ways of Hitler which would only end up hurting them.

They can not legally restrict converts. Their law forbids discrimination of citizens based on religion.

Though there are other ways - also legally - to de-incentivize converts and incentivize reversion to Christianity.

 

[Kabira]

That may well be true, but how is that related?
Its a question of principle.

I support the right of Germans to decide who to let in and who not to. If the citizenry of Germany feels that Muslims(or Indians for that matter) are not compatible with the values of Germany/Europe, they have the legal right to stop them from entering Germany, stop them from becoming citizens.

And the people of Pakistan and others from Muslim countries with some rare and good exceptions(Turkey, Bangladesh, Indonesia,etc) are on really weak grounds to ask for any form of equality when their own countries don't give it to others. Hypocrisy abounds amongst these lots.

And neither Indians/hindus have any ground to ask anything considiring whats going on lately in India and especially since BJP gained power in 90's.

 

[Zarvan]

True.
You can be sure that this would be going to their courts soon enough..and if it fails the test there, the Constitution can be amended if the demand becomes widespread.

They can not legally restrict converts. Their law forbids discrimination of citizens based on religion.

Though there are other ways - also legally - to de-incentivize converts and incentivize reversion to Christianity.

Well Good Luck with that

 

[Judge]

Well Good Luck with that

I am not the one doing it. Its upto the Germans.
In so far as the German Govt. is concerned, they do have the right to stop immigration from specific countries or specific religions.

And I believe the main agenda of the protests is this. A section of Europe is pushing for tough immigration laws and against the left wing politicians there.

 

[Desert Fox]

You are right that the actions of certain extremists are fueling this hysteria, but you are wrong to justify the hysteria.

The actions you mentioned are like those of gang members. I don't blame the Germans for not liking their actions, since I, as a Muslim, don't want them anywhere near my neighborhood either. If they want sharia zones, they can move to Middle East or wherever.

So, I sympathize with the Germans who are alarmed by the extremists, but the reaction should be the same as to gangs. It should not target Islam as a religion or ordinary Muslims.

The authorities are to blame for allowing the extremists on both sides so much freedom that matters start to get out of hand.

I agree with you, but in reality things never go this way. And neither would i, as a Muslim justify any attack on another Muslim, i'm simply giving you the European perspective, which is no different from the average Pakistanis views of Afghan refugees who behave no differently in Pakistan than these Muslim immigrants do in Europe. Both Pakistanis and Europeans reserve the right to express their discontent with their respective immigrant populations.

It is human nature to feel averse to a foreign group of peoples who pose a cultural, ideological, and political threat to the native population, whether we agree with it or not. From a Westerners perspective, the scenes of carnage taking place in the middle east and the persecution, rape, and enslavement of Christians and other religious/sectarian minorities within Muslim majority countries sure sends a chill down the spine of every European/Westerner at the though of increasing Muslim populations within their own countries, and really no one can blame them considering the inability of the Muslims to curb extremism not only within the middle east but also within their communities in the West.

ISIS and similar groups do enjoy considerable moral and material support within European Muslim communities and even receive manpower.

 

[Developereo]

It is human nature to feel averse to a foreign group of peoples who pose a cultural, ideological, and political threat to the native population

The issue is whether these extremists enjoy as widespread support as is claimed.

Unfortunately, the failure of the authorities to clamp down on the extremists, on both sides, will allow the situation to spiral outward and engulf wider communities on both sides.

European countries are wary of curbing personal freedoms, but when extremists start to take advantage of these freedoms, then the foot must come down.

 

[Zarvan]

yaa ye muslimon har jagah jaake problem kyoon paida karte hain? (bacchon ke alawa)

Well Islam is a system which is completely opposite to western systems and clash are inevitable. Muslims in Germany need to focus just on preaching Islam and converting as many as possible, like this guy is doing.

 

[volcano]

Simple truth is sons of these so called refugees will start cutting the neck of germens sooner than later.. Look at briton for a lesson..

 

[Zarvan]

Simple truth is sons of these so called refugees will start cutting the neck of germens sooner than later.. Look at briton for a lesson..

Both in British were converts and both were british not even migrants mate.