General Pervaiz Musharraf's Last Message to Imran Khan just before his death!

[Clutch]

 

[blain2]

And this was the man that IK called "Ghattiya". For those wondering, look up a video on YT of IK with his young sons.

Musharraf was a patriot till his last breath. Nobody can take that away from him.

"وہ بہت بڑے انسان تھے ان کے دوست چھوٹے ثابت ہوئے ہمیشہ پاکستان فرسٹ ان کی سوچ اور نظریہ تھا، خدا غریق رحمت کرے"
- Ch Fawad Hussain

 

[SQ8]

And this was the man that IK called "Ghattiya". For those wondering, look up a video on YT of IK with his young sons.

Musharraf was a patriot till his last breath. Nobody can take that away from him.

"وہ بہت بڑے انسان تھے ان کے دوست چھوٹے ثابت ہوئے ہمیشہ پاکستان فرسٹ ان کی سوچ اور نظریہ تھا، خدا غریق رحمت کرے"
- Ch Fawad Hussain

Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.

Although from that perspective IK is actually pretty “Ghatiya” himself in his hypocrisy on certain matters.

 

[blain2]

Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.

Although from that perspective IK is actually pretty “Ghatiya” himself in his hypocrisy on certain matters.

I am well aware of that adage but it is apt when patriotism is used as a veneer to push fascism. Musharraf wasn't the hyper-nationalistic type who hid behind patriotism. He was pragmatic.

 

[SQ8]

I am well aware of that adage but it is apt when patriotism is used as a veneer to push fascism. Musharraf wasn't the hyper-nationalistic type who hid behind patriotism. He was pragmatic.

I disagree - because he would not have done Kargil nor authorized ops post 2001 that were both unrealistic and poorly planned/led(at the highest levels). His “good boys club” continues to cause damage to the overall merit and character of the military just as Zia’s did.

 

[TheSolution]

I disagree - because he would not have done Kargil nor authorized ops post 2001 that were both unrealistic and poorly planned/led(at the highest levels). His “good boys club” continues to cause damage to the overall merit and character of the military just as Zia’s did.

I wonder if there is a peaceful way to get rid of institutional corruption and bring in meritocracy. Khan was the only one that cared but they removed him.

The establishment seems like it wouldn't go down without a fight

It's sad to see Pakistan like this but I guess the people tolerate it

 

[SQ8]

I wonder if there is a peaceful way to get rid of institutional corruption and bring in meritocracy. Khan was the only one that cared but they removed him.

The establishment seems like it wouldn't go down without a fight

It's sad to see Pakistan like this but I guess the people tolerate it

khan only repeats rhetoric otherwise he would not have brought in Buzdar because his Mrs is family or whatever with them.

There is meritocracy for the most part in the PA(and other branches) until it’s time for 1 star and above - then favoritism does kick in despite a well recorded and thorough red/green flag performance review system to gauge potential.

That being said - favors are curried earlier on but that is true for most militaries(including the US) - if you served as ADC to a 3-star and make a boo boo during your career later -
You can request some references and help to alleviate the punitive actionz

 

[TheSolution]

khan only repeats rhetoric otherwise he would not have brought in Buzdar because his Mrs is family or whatever with them.

There is meritocracy for the most part in the PA(and other branches) until it’s time for 1 star and above - then favoritism does kick in despite a well recorded and thorough red/green flag performance review system to gauge potential.

That being said - favors are curried earlier on but that is true for most militaries(including the US) - if you served as ADC to a 3-star and make a boo boo during your career later -
You can request some references and help to alleviate the punitive actionz

But even besides the military Pakistan's institutions seem genuinely useless and clueless

I made it a thread on it, but even Afghanistan is building institutions and they seem to be much more dedicated with a clear road map putting in effort, ours are just dragging their feet along wherever it takes them without a care in the world.

Nepotism and low-level corruption seems to be destroying the country from within and preventing it from grow at a satisfactory pace, or to even just keep up with the rest of the world.

 

[Ssan]

khan only repeats rhetoric otherwise he would not have brought in Buzdar because his Mrs is family or whatever with them.

There is meritocracy for the most part in the PA(and other branches) until it’s time for 1 star and above - then favoritism does kick in despite a well recorded and thorough red/green flag performance review system to gauge potential.

That being said - favors are curried earlier on but that is true for most militaries(including the US) - if you served as ADC to a 3-star and make a boo boo during your career later -
You can request some references and help to alleviate the punitive actionz

Buzdar was a mistake true. I think PAF might be the standard for being based on merit. The other branches need to copy this and if this leads to downsizing, then so be it.

Also, I have given this some thought. In Pakistan, we arrange quotas for the bureaucracy and the army is supposed to be on merit. I think more so than the bureaucracy, the army is the place that actually needs ethnic quotas. Not all of it. But maybe 50% of the draft should be quota based. Then promotion should be based on merit ofc.

We ought to remove quotas from the bureaucracy altogether and it should be 100% merit based. In the long run, having a competent bureaucracy is too important for us to play quota games there. That would actually fix the institutions that have become nothing more than skeletons.

Buzdar was a mistake true. I think PAF might be the standard for being based on merit. The other branches need to copy this and if this leads to downsizing, then so be it.

Also, I have given this some thought. In Pakistan, we arrange quotas for the bureaucracy and the army is supposed to be on merit. I think more so than the bureaucracy, the army is the place that actually needs ethnic quotas. Not all of it. But maybe 50% of the draft should be quota based. Then promotion should be based on merit ofc.

We ought to remove quotas from the bureaucracy altogether and it should be 100% merit based. In the long run, having a competent bureaucracy is too important for us to play quota games there. That would actually fix the institutions that have become nothing more than skeletons.

The army is a good institution to build the nation. In the old days, you would have a draft that would pull everyone indiscriminately. We don’t need a draft but having quotas would help everyone feel connected to the state.

 

[blain2]

khan only repeats rhetoric otherwise he would not have brought in Buzdar because his Mrs is family or whatever with them.

There is meritocracy for the most part in the PA(and other branches) until it’s time for 1 star and above - then favoritism does kick in despite a well recorded and thorough red/green flag performance review system to gauge potential.

That being said - favors are curried earlier on but that is true for most militaries(including the US) - if you served as ADC to a 3-star and make a boo boo during your career later -
You can request some references and help to alleviate the punitive actionz

100%. I have seen both side of the business (uniform and civil/corporate) and what you describe in terms of "favoritism" goes on everywhere because things by their very nature become "political" (not alluding to national politics, rather institutional for other members). As you have pointed out, this happens in foreign militaries alike (I have observed a bit of this in the United States).

Buzdar was a mistake true. I think PAF might be the standard for being based on merit. The other branches need to copy this and if this leads to downsizing, then so be it.

Also, I have given this some thought. In Pakistan, we arrange quotas for the bureaucracy and the army is supposed to be on merit. I think more so than the bureaucracy, the army is the place that actually needs ethnic quotas. Not all of it. But maybe 50% of the draft should be quota based. Then promotion should be based on merit ofc.

We ought to remove quotas from the bureaucracy altogether and it should be 100% merit based. In the long run, having a competent bureaucracy is too important for us to play quota games there. That would actually fix the institutions that have become nothing more than skeletons.


The army is a good institution to build the nation. In the old days, you would have a draft that would pull everyone indiscriminately. We don’t need a draft but having quotas would help everyone feel connected to the state.

Army has provincial quotas for recruitment in the ranks. We aren't the only ones who do that, IA does the same and for good reasons too because both armies are "national" armies.

Officer corps should certainly be more focused on merit, however here too some quotas apply.

Now, this may come across as blasphemy to many here, but our army works quite well internally. Things get done in the army unlike in our public sector. People are held accountable and punished accordingly when they fall short of the accountability. This is not to say that things are perfect and there is no room for improvements, without doubt there is, but in balance, things are moving along with military efficiency (which is good at times and comical at others).

 

[HAIDER]

Today Parliament didn't allow "dua e magfirat" for dearest Gen Musharraf.

 

[Ssan]

100%. I have seen both side of the business (uniform and civil/corporate) and what you describe in terms of "favoritism" goes on everywhere because things by their very nature become "political" (not alluding to national politics, rather institutional for other members). As you have pointed out, this happens in foreign militaries alike (I have observed a bit of this in the United States).


Army has provincial quotas for recruitment in the ranks. We aren't the only ones who do that, IA does the same and for good reasons too because both armies are "national" armies.

Officer corps should certainly be more focused on merit, however here too some quotas apply.

Now, this may come across as blasphemy to many here, but our army works quite well internally. Things get done in the army unlike in our public sector. People are held accountable and punished accordingly when they fall short of the accountability. This is not to say that things are perfect and there is no room for improvements, without doubt there is, but in balance, things are moving along with military efficiency (which is good at times and comical at others).

Pleased to hear this. How much are the provincial quotas and when were they enforced? I ask because this alone could have probably avoided ‘71.

The army’s efficiency being higher than civilian institutions is not blasphemy at all. But common wisdom. Our bureaucracy has become void after the quotas and the political lackeying.

 

[Menace2Society]

Should have had a state funeral.

 

[SQ8]

Buzdar was a mistake true. I think PAF might be the standard for being based on merit. The other branches need to copy this and if this leads to downsizing, then so be it.

Also, I have given this some thought. In Pakistan, we arrange quotas for the bureaucracy and the army is supposed to be on merit. I think more so than the bureaucracy, the army is the place that actually needs ethnic quotas. Not all of it. But maybe 50% of the draft should be quota based. Then promotion should be based on merit ofc.

We ought to remove quotas from the bureaucracy altogether and it should be 100% merit based. In the long run, having a competent bureaucracy is too important for us to play quota games there. That would actually fix the institutions that have become nothing more than skeletons.


The army is a good institution to build the nation. In the old days, you would have a draft that would pull everyone indiscriminately. We don’t need a draft but having quotas would help everyone feel connected to the state.

If IK was a true believer in his own preaching - then he would not forgive himself for Buzdar as he refuses to forgive the corrupt houses of Sharif and Zardari

 

[Goenitz]

Should have had a state funeral.

AQ khan should have it.. I dislike that IK didn't attend it.. except PPP CM, nobody did..
anyway.. good talk on Musharraf... Gen. Shoaib program is also good.
WAj also iterated the same points what his biggest achievements are. It is free media (45:54) and local body elections (lasted 7 months)