Gen Raheel 'seriously concerned' over violation of sovereignty by US

[The Eagle]

Two birds with one stone.... However, once again, time has put us at the place where we have to wait and deal to survive in between somewhere the fight of big mouths. We have to be ready for such times as we are into this along with US and West agreeably in the past.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

No offense but we are obliged to do squat. Seriously dont you westerners feel a shred of shame when you mention geneva convention. When was the last time EU or UK or US or Russia actualy followed UN convention?
Highlighted part of your comment actually shows you ignorance hence we are obliged to tell u to shove geneva convention where sun doesnt shine.
Please put your own house on order first then come back and give us a lecture on morality.

Ehmm, How about today!
Anyway, violations of the Geneva Convention by any third party cannot be used as a pretense
for another signee to violate it.
The Geneva Convention is not applicable, only if one of the parties has not signed.

When You ignore the precense of enemy troops on Your territory, explain the logic why they should be protected against attack?
Technically allowing troops makes You an enemy, and thus attacks are allowed.

 

[Psychic]

When You ignore the precense of enemy troops on Your territory, explain the logic why they should be protected against attack?
Technically allowing troops makes You an enemy, and thus attacks are allowed

When USA wanted the same person to travel to Qatar and open a Taliban office there then he wasn't an enemy trooper?
Anyways if there still was an itch to take him out then why did they let him live and get away when his vehicle was in Iranian/Afghan territory ?
And thirdly, you don't go and drone people just like that and justify it by saying that he was our enemy...THERE IS A STANDARD PROCEDURE, which is to inform that country and request it to apprehend that person. (On a side note, many of our enemies and rebels are enjoying Western hospitality, would you grant us the same right to kill them in those countries? )
By looking at your simple assumptions, let me tell you that things are never that simple and straight forward in Af-Pak.

 

[Danish saleem]

a joke of History.!

Army chief showing concern on Dron Attack!

US Foreign office confirmed that they already informed the concerns on Drone Attack.

 

[LeGenD]

another loosely related subject (which we all missed) the son of former Governer of Punjab Tasir who was abducted by Uzbak millitants and taken to Afghanistan.. was rescued NOT by the American/ Afghan forces (as being claimed) but by Afghan Taliban (read Haqqanis) who raided the Uzbaks .. killed every single soul including women , children, old or young around the captive and then helped him to escape and drove him to a place where he could meet up with American base. (He himself has been interviewed ).. he was carefully grateful to Afghan taliban for their help. ..
(hmmm what is ...that?? )

Sir,

You are confusing the case of Shahbaz Taseer with that of Ali Haider Gilani.

Taliban took Shahbaz Taseer in their custody after killing his Uzbek captives somewhere in Balochistan. They released him after identifying him. It is rumored security officials negotiated his release with offer a ransom.

Ali Haider Gilani was helped captive by Taliban somewhere in Afghanistan. Luckily for him, Americans conducted an operation against Taliban in that region and rescued him. Though, his rescue was not pre-planned. It was through sheer luck on his part.

Ali Haider Gilani have hinted at providing details of his rescue in a book.

 

[EXPERIMENT]

So called "concerns" of Pakistan leaderships

I dont think this "serious concern" is legitimate or true.
army is in it together with the USA

yes Drones do violate our sovereignty
but so do those terrorists who attack our schools, parks and Mosques. this is just a general statement and nothing to do with assassination of Afghan taliban leadership.

all I can say is he had it coming for him he claimed the responsibility for bombing in Kabul, yes he was in the process of negotiations and making regular visits to UAE in the designated office there where he was meeting the Americans.. (no surprise or comment from others who are blaming Pakistan for facilitating his travelling).

his death will have some uncontrollable and unpredictable consequences for Afghanistan. warlords of Northern Alliance will benefit, ISIS will benefit and Afghan Taliban might fragment even more and they might either join ISIS or Al Qaeda
there is no chance of reprieve from the terrorist attacks on Kabul .. which ever leader comes up or whoever counters him will conduct outrageous terrorist attacks on Afghan civilians to establish himself as rightful head of this death and carnage.

I do not have anything positive to say about drone strikes they are vile disgusting inhuman. Yet this person Akther Masour signed his own death warrant after Flight 814, as an Indian I have no sympathy.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Sir,

You are confusing the case of Shahbaz Taseer with that of Ali Haider Gilani.

Taliban took Shahbaz Taseer in their custody after killing his Uzbek captives somewhere in Balochistan. They released him after identifying him. It is rumored security officials negotiated his release with offer a ransom.

Ali Haider Gilani was helped captive by Taliban somewhere in Afghanistan. Luckily for him, Americans conducted an operation against Taliban in that region and rescued him. Though, his rescue was not pre-planned. It was through sheer luck on his part.

Ali Haider Gilani have hinted at providing details of his rescue in a book.

I was listening to the interview Shabaz Taseer gave to a British radio station (not BBC) he mentioned that he was freed by Afghan taliban who kept him well and actually led him at a meeting point .. it seems that the money might have been exchanged but his actual abductors and captors were Uzbuks.. I am not interested in this story that much I was highlighting the canabalistic nature of these different fighters in Afghanistan who show no restraint in their violence

even their infighting to claim the throne means total annihilation of competitors who are candidates for the leadership. there is no all party conference or agreement. you kill that person his children and his brothers etc otherwise they will come back for you in next 10 , 15 , 20 ,40 years... (take your pick).

 

[T-72M1]

Gen Dostum the part of much loved Northen alliance is now travel banned in America due to his war crimes.
he has burried people alive. in Northern alliance there are people who stuffed children of the poppy farmers as punishment who didnt comply. yes that place is a mess.

Lots of tales about legendary warlord Dostum, his ho trains/caravans and bloody exploits. One really interesting one I read was about when the first detachment of US SF (oda 595) along with some CIA guys first landed in Afghanistan to make deals with some NA warlords, they offered him some of the finest Russian Vodka along with sack-fulls of dollars.

definitely no good guys in Afghanistan. I'm sure you must have seen the bitter-lake documentary, makes you wonder if socialist Afghanistan would have turned out better if everyone would have turned a blind eye to the commie regimes alleged brutalities.

I'm totally against left economics and commie/socialism but it has worked out well for Muslim countries, Nasser, Ataturk, Gaddafi, Saddam and even the much demonized Bashar now, they kept the extremists in check and people were happier in a non hyper-religious system. The Kurds are commie/socialists, and they're by far the best of the 'rebels' in that mess today.

another loosely related subject (which we all missed) the son of former Governer of Punjab Tasir who was abducted by Uzbak millitants and taken to Afghanistan.. was rescued NOT by the American/ Afghan forces (as being claimed) but by Afghan Taliban (read Haqqanis) who raided the Uzbaks .. killed every single soul including women , children, old or young around the captive and then helped him to escape and drove him to a place where he could meet up with American base. (He himself has been interviewed ).. he was carefully grateful to Afghan taliban for their help. ..
(hmmm what is ...that?? )

I saw his interview on CNN with Amanpour (who is a first class propagandist bitch herself) and he mentioned how a Taliban helped with by lending him his cellphone to make the call home, his story was that he was kind of scary looking himself at that point so so nobody wanted to lend him the phone when he just so happened to run into a real Taliban who helped him out

they are the sole super power and they do that with almost every other country (exception being their two top Middle east allies Israel and KSA)

strangest bedfellows ever, my theory on that special relationship is that the jooz will eventually, when its convenient, stab the wahhabis in the back.

Afghan issue is beyond the 80 era of Afghan Jihad project. with ISIS in the mix it is beyond what USA, PAK and KSA together made that turned into Al Qaeda/ Taliban. truth to be told, the Taliban project had tacit approval from USA, KSA and a westernised (anti Pak Army) Benazir Bhutto's government. and the idea was to bring order in the chaos (so convinently such American role is missed out even by some top names injournalism which only shows hypocracy & intellectual dishonesty).
(and that is an unfortunate history) as the monster became something which it planners had NOT planned.

how had they planned for post socialist Afghanistan to be ?

too much propaganda on all sides but if this is how it was then it was a hell lot better than what came after

in American defence, why Americans didn't decide to take the target out in Iran? maybe they didn't want to loose yet another drone to Iranian Mullahs and cause an unnecessary diplomatic rift when Obama is on his way out.

but it is being repeatedly suggested that Americans want to deal directly with those who hold the power and have the say in their opposing ranks and that are Haqqanis. therefore

the whole thing is so murky, I'm not even sure they actually did take out any Taliban leader, this is a conspiratorial, but the facts are that the Afghan mujh, ISI and CIA are old pals, Iran would have immediately shot down any false claims and busted the smoke screen by opening it to the world, so they do it in remote Pakistani Baluchistan, home to Jundallah and the baloch separatists, not exactly a talib playground, is it ?



p.s. thanks for finding my bs interesting, Its an honour, I'll have to try and behave better now.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

When USA wanted the same person to travel to Qatar and open a Taliban office there then he wasn't an enemy trooper?
Anyways if there still was an itch to take him out then why did they let him live and get away when his vehicle was in Iranian/Afghan territory ?
And thirdly, you don't go and drone people just like that and justify it by saying that he was our enemy...THERE IS A STANDARD PROCEDURE, which is to inform that country and request it to apprehend that person. (On a side note, many of our enemies and rebels are enjoying Western hospitality, would you grant us the same right to kill them in those countries? )
By looking at your simple assumptions, let me tell you that things are never that simple and straight forward in Af-Pak.

Why he was not taken out before, is a question to the Americans.
My guess is that they tried negotiation, but gave up, and perhaps
intelligence is less about Iran.
Another alternative is that Pakistani lower rank officials feed info to the U.S.

I believe that it is the responsibility of Pakistan to deport any combatant, or intern them.

Theoretically, Pakistan can try to kill combatants inside the E.U. if they are not interned.
There are legal considerations, like having to show obvious signs that they are Pakistani soldiers,
when entering the E.U. Sending assassins all dressed as civilians in Mossad style operations is not legal.
E.U. countries are obliged to intern the Pakistani soldiers when they turn up.

What does make things complex is when one side, like the Talibans, are not a signee to the. Geneva Convention.
I don't think that the rules are applicable in a civil war. It has to be between two states.

A Pakistani Taliban therefore does not have to be interned, but if there is a war between India and Pakistan,
then any soldiers from either party should be interned.

 

[Jf Thunder]

what kind of response would you have wanted from your army ?

apparently he wanted our Army Chief to Declare war on the USA (even though he cant, even if he wanted to)

 

[war&peace]

it's grand that you say that. Hopefully you dont truly believe that. Because only three days ago army handed over the Angoor Ada post to Afghanistan with no consultation with the Minister of Defence and the Interior Minister. Heck, CH. Nisar even came out to say that he has reservation over the hand over.

Army is bypassing the ministries that are suppose to be in charge of such affairs and you guys want another figure head who can be ridiculed by the boots. No thanks.

Again it is the weakness of civilian govt, they don't have the moral authority and thus guts to talk to the army. If they were doing their job, I can assure you, no such thing would have happened. ZAB had a pretty good control over army until he had the moral authority, he kept army at an arms length and limited to their constitutional role. He was the most independent prime minister, he made the foreign policy, constitution, laws, changed the economic system drastically from free or liberal to socialistic system with massive nationalisation, he made the defence policy and intiated the nuclear program with famous slogan "we will eat grass for 100 years but we will make the A-bomb", he forged relationship with Russia and China despite army had great relations with USA since Ayub Khan's time....and army did not say anything...He even made ISI and used to tap into the phones of his opponents...he did all that and army did not do anything whatsoever other than its constitutional role but then came 1977 election and there were allegations of massive rigging and molvies (though paid by external agents) initiated tehreek-nizam-e-mustafa and the agitation was wide spread, ZAB did not budge from his position and finally he lost the moral authority and the army got the opportunity to step in and takeover, unconstitutional but ZAB had lost the moral authority. Similar things happened later too with NS. But this time he has come with a baggage and he is notoriously corrupt, the election has been rigged, he has no moral authority and after panama leaks even the last fig leaves have been removed and stands stark naked but still he is not ready to budge though everyone is watching him and his naked.. He can't talk to COAS with a voice of PM but a meekishly and sheepishly feeble voice...because he commands no authority... even Ch. Nisar, despite being his cabinet member has more moral authority because he is not named in the panama leaks and there are no corruption allegations against him, so can still speak but NS can't and NS won't. You wanna bet?

 

[iPhone]

The office of Chief of Army staff have handled all of Pakistan's internal/state affairs in the past as well, so going by your logic, why even appoint a Prime Minister to begin with?
Sorry to say but this is an absurd excuse and a failed attempt/argument that people/government use to hide the incompetence. The truth is, the current regime SUCKS when it come to foreign affairs and it was THERE responsibility to figure that out. This is the same old excuse "kay hamin to kisi na 2 saal sa zada kaam krnyy he nai dea" while the truth is that "inhain kisi na 2 saal sa zada kaam DEKHANAY nai dea"
The government should not come forward with such lame excuses and get a grip on the foreign policy.

it's so easy to blame the civilians, right? it's our national pass time anyway, to vent our frustration at them..... screw the politicians, blast them all to hell, the incompetent bunch. With such mind set it's given the 'incompetent civilians' argument gets thrown around all the time.

But anyone ever question the army, too? what about their incompetence? what about their screw ups? Drones violating out air space, foreign armies invading our cities carrying out operations, and not a single higher army general is held accountable? I dont hear from anyone that the civilian gov't should drag all these generals to courts and throw them in jails. But god forbid a civilian does something wrong.... everyone's ready to blast them to kingdom come.

 

[Arsalan]

it's so easy to blame the civilians, right? it's our national pass time anyway, to vent our frustration at them..... screw the politicians, blast them all to hell, the incompetent bunch. With such mind set it's given the 'incompetent civilians' argument gets thrown around all the time.

You missed the point!
It is so easy to blame, Period.
Civilians or army, PTI or PMLN, America or India, Jews or Hindus, It is just so easy to blame them ALL for out OWN screw ups. I am not denying that these are responsible nor am i going to debate the extent of there involvement in the set back we suffer but it is just too convenient to sit back and blame them rather then actually doing something to sort this all out.

But anyone ever question the army, too? what about their incompetence? what about their screw ups? Drones violating out air space, foreign armies invading our cities carrying out operations, and not a single higher army general is held accountable? I dont hear from anyone that the civilian gov't should drag all these generals to courts and throw them in jails. But god forbid a civilian does something wrong.... everyone's ready to blast them to kingdom come.

See, you are doing it right here.
Jut blaming, army in this case, simply ignoring the FACT that you cannot blame the army unless there was a explicit order given to them by the GOVERNMENT to stop these acts of aggression. If there is one such order and then the army do not respond or fail to carry out that task, THEN it is the army to be blamed. You cannot have it both ways, you cannot blame the army for interfering in government affairs and then blame them for not carrying our operations that can ONLY be authorized by government on there own. No matter how easy it is, it is not right but unfortunately, this is what we do.
See, now i did it (but at least i feel i gave a reasonable excuse, but that is what it is, an excuse and NOT a solution).
@fatman17

 

[T-Rex]

Why he was not taken out before, is a question to the Americans.
My guess is that they tried negotiation, but gave up,

I thought those Americans never negotiated with the terrorists or was it just one of those white lies?

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

I thought those Americans never negotiated with the terrorists or was it just one of those white lies?

Clinton negotiated with Yassir Arafat, so it is Your expectations that are wrong.
U.S. policy can change everytime POTUS is replaced.