GE wins $2.6 billion order to supply 1,000 diesel locomotives to Indian Railways

[Stephen Cohen]

Dubbed as the first big ticket project under 'Make in India' initiative in the public transporter, GE and Alstom were issued the letters of award for the high value contract acceptance letters, according to a senior Railway Ministry official.

The mega projects approved since 2007 by the then Railway Minister Lalu Prasad, got mired in controversies, years of red tape and indecision by successive ministers, finally saw the light of the day during ..

Read more at:
GE, Alstom get contracts for Marhora, Madhepura loco projects - The Economic Times

I know India makes CNG locos to... But still if India can make 4500 HP locos invest some money to build a plant of 6000 HP Locos cheaper engines more people will get jobs etc

Demand can be meet all it needs money and India has plenty of it...

IF 1000 engine are coming with JV then the best deal

Indian Railways has a very meagre profit margin
because of massive subsidisation of goods and passenger traffic

The Central government gives the Railways some grants and Loans but that is NOT enough

Now this new Public private partnership route is being tried

The Private sector already makes Railway goods Wagons
and passenger coaches which are purchased by Railways

Now it is the turn to get LOCOS from the Private sector

@Muhammad Omar

The Capital expenditure Incurred by Railways under various heads are

1 New Tracks
2 Replacing Old Tracks
3 Repairing and Making new Bridges Tunnels and culverts
3 Converting Metre Gauge lines to Broad Gauge
4 Expenditure on Signalling and Communication
5 Electrification of Tracks wherever necessary

These above activities are NON profitable activities
So Private sector will NOT touch them ; Railways has to finance them from its own money
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
6 Making MORE Locos and coaches and wagons

Only this activity is profitable Hence Private sector INVESTMENT is coming in
for making Locos ; coaches and wagons

 

[Muhammad Omar]

Dubbed as the first big ticket project under 'Make in India' initiative in the public transporter, GE and Alstom were issued the letters of award for the high value contract acceptance letters, according to a senior Railway Ministry official.

The mega projects approved since 2007 by the then Railway Minister Lalu Prasad, got mired in controversies, years of red tape and indecision by successive ministers, finally saw the light of the day during ..

Read more at:
GE, Alstom get contracts for Marhora, Madhepura loco projects - The Economic Times



Indian Railways has a very meagre profit margin
because of massive subsidisation of goods and passenger traffic

The Central government gives the Railways some grants and Loans but that is NOT enough

Now this new Public private partnership route is being tried

The Private sector already makes Railway goods Wagons
and passenger coaches which are purchased by Railways

Now it is the turn to get LOCOS from the Private sector

@Muhammad Omar

The Capital expenditure Incurred by Railways under various heads are

1 New Tracks
2 Replacing Old Tracks
3 Repairing and Making new Bridges Tunnels and culverts
3 Converting Metre Gauge lines to Broad Gauge
4 Expenditure on Signalling and Communication
5 Electrification of Tracks wherever necessary

These above activities are NON profitable activities
So Private sector will NOT touch them ; Railways has to finance them from its own money
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
6 Making MORE Locos and coaches and wagons

Only this activity is profitable Hence Private sector INVESTMENT is available

 

[Solomon2]

Steam engines are a NUISANCE

They have huge logistic problems of supplying coal and water
plus they create pollution

The nuisance and pollution problems can be alleviated. The need for coal and water can't. It's specifically for hauling coal long distances that steam engines make the most economic sense.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

The nuisance and pollution problems can be alleviated. The need for coal and water can't. It's specifically for hauling coal long distances that steam engines make the most economic sense.

When we got rid of our steam engines some time in 1990
Indian Railways heaved a sigh of relief

They DONT want these troublesome machines again

And all the infrastructure associated with steam engines has been
removed

There are NO trained people left to operate and maintain these machines

And it is not financially wise to spend money on recreating this
infrastructure for steam engines

I was actually hoping the Indians would choose one of GE's new steam engine designs. I saw a presentation by one of their engineers and it turns out that applying modern design practice steam piston locomotives can be considerably improved to reduce total operating costs to the point they can compete or outperform diesel locomotives on at least some cargo routes.

Can you give more details about the Operating costs
Horse power generated ; price per unit

A link would be highly appreciated

 

[Solomon2]

...They DONT want these troublesome machines again

Those engines were ancient, or of ancient design. Even for steam engines built after 1950, it's amazing how much they were based on pre-WWI technology. The newer designs I saw were much easier on engine and track maintenance.

...all the infrastructure associated with steam engines has been
removed. There are NO trained people left to operate and maintain these machines

Plenty of people in the U.S. have been willing to come out of retirement to train youngsters to operate steam engines. Why would India be different?

...it is not financially wise to spend money on recreating this infrastructure for steam engines

The engineer admitted it only made definite financial sense on routes hauling coal. Because there's very little additional infrastructure to add whereas there's a great deal of infrastructure to be saved by eliminated diesel-related facilities from these areas.

Can you give more details about the Operating costs
Horse power generated ; price per unit

Sorry, no. Working from memory here.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

Sorry, no. Working from memory here.

A google search on GE steam LOCOS shows Old locos only
No new steam locos are mentioned

GE steam turbine locomotives - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Whereas the same search also showed the MOST modern
Diesel locos being made by GE


How GE got on track toward the smartest locomotives ever - CNET

 

[yolo2016]

I know India makes CNG locos to... But still if India can make 4500 HP locos invest some money to build a plant of 6000 HP Locos cheaper engines more people will get jobs etc

Demand can be meet all it needs money and India has plenty of it...

IF 1000 engine are coming with JV then the best deal

Scale, timing and technology. 1000 is not 10 or 100.

Very smart move by India. Guess where future orders will be built for the world.

 

[Nilgiri]

Scale, timing and technology. 1000 is not 10 or 100.

Very smart move by India. Guess where future orders will be built for the world.

Certainly looks that way:

GE, Alstom likely to set up locomotive factories in Bihar: Report - Livemint

More competition, tech injection = good for Indian economy.

 

[anant_s]

Here is what GE is supplying
6000 HP

AC 6000CW model
4500 HP

ES 44AC model (rated at 4400 HP).

For Electric locomotive project, 2 locomotives are proposed
1. 12000 HP Bo-Bo+Bo-Bo (8 axle coupled loco units), for which ALSTOM Prima 2 has reportedly won the competition (Unit cost around INR 27 Crore). The locomotives are for Eastern DFC (Ludhiana Dankuni Section)

2. 9000 HP Co-Co (6 axle) locomotives for Western DFC (JNPT Mumbai to Dadri). For this locomotive Japanese consortium of Hitachi, Kawasaki has won the tender. 200 locos will be produced under this project.

The locomotive is similar to Chinese HxD 3 class locomotive.

more can be read here
12000 HP Locomotives for Indian Railways

 

[anant_s]

If India has the capacity to build locomotives, why do we need GE to build them here ?

Sir, these projects come on basis on Joint venture basis to cut expenditure by Railways. DLW Varanasi doesnot have sufficient capacity to meet requirements of HHP Diesels for DFC and hence new factory at Marhaura. PPP was envisaged since beginning and now that GE has won the tender, we will have a very interesting situation of both EMD and GE producing HHP locos side by side. Perhaps only example outside US where both locomotive majors will produce their locos in bulk. (EMD is supplying WDG 4D, WDP 4B both rated at 4,500 HP and recently WDG 5, 5,500 HP, made by DLW Varanasi).
@Muhammad Omar @Stephen Cohen
DLW presenlty manufactures following locomotives
4,500 HP
WDG 4

WDG 4D (Dual Cab Version)

5,500 HP, WDG5

Apart from this Parel workshop and Diesel Mordenization works Patiala (in Punjab) manufacture WDM 3D loco (based on older ALCO technology).
3,300 HP

@gslv mk3 @Rain Man @Abingdonboy @Ankit Kumar

 

[Ankit Kumar]

Good.

But I am personally waiting for the Japanese locomotive of which 200 will be procured to run exclusively on the WDFC. 9000 HP.

 

[Nilgiri]

I favour electric to Diesel always.

Oil prices never stay low forever....whereas coal prices generally do especially in domestic terms for India given her coal reserves. But of course rail electrification has not kept up to deliver this (opportunity missed during 60s, 70s and 80s imo).

@anant_s Do you know how many of the 1000 GE Diesels will be split between 6000 and 4500 HP models?

Edit: NVM the split is 300 and 700 respectively from my own link lol.

Plus I am reading that 800 is the order book for the Alstom Electric locos. Is that the figure you have too? These 800 will be the 12000 HP beasts?

 

[Ankit Kumar]

@Nilgiri

Diesels are equally important for Indian railways as not 100% routes can be electrified.

 

[Turingsage]

Horus – GE AC6000CW

With a power of 6,000 HP the GE AC6000CW is the most powerful single-engine diesel locomotive in America.
Eight of these engines have been exported to Australia and are maintained by BHP Billiton. On 21st June 2001 these eight engines hauled the longest and heaviest train of all times. The train had a length of 7.3 kilometres and transported 82,000 tons of iron ore from the Yandi mine to Port Hedland.

 

[Nilgiri]

Diesels are equally important for Indian railways as not 100% routes can be electrified.

I know, but lots of rail line exists that can and should be electrified...and the pace was very slow for those that have been electrified if you look at the history. It has taken a lot of money out of the country by way of import margins of diesel.

Actually it would be interesting to see what learned members opinion/knowledge is on how much actual electrification has taken place over the total possible length that can be...because I may be out of date/unaware since I am going by what my father told me of the projects during his youth during the heavy socialist/centralist days.

But I am personally waiting for the Japanese locomotive of which 200 will be procured to run exclusively on the WDFC. 9000 HP.

Where will these be produced? Both Alstom and GE have likely chosen Bihar it seems.