Gaofen 4: World's most powerful GeoSpy Satellite continues China's leap in Space.

[Tiqiu]

@WAJsal
Why was this guy still allowed to rant something which I think is direct insult to me, words like " I should not watch too much TV". Is it relevant to what of this article is talking about? That guy also brought up the past act of "my correcting his grammar" again with the purpose, I think , to pick for a fight. Why didn't he mention that it was him who said directly to me that He taught English to new migrants like me in Australia at beginning?( you can check the thread "Korean war: the first we lost" to see if I am telling the truth). I had asked him not quoting me in this thread and put him on the ignore list, but his posts popped up when I didn't log in. You told me I could report for false flag/derail thread in your ruling. So can you tell me how?
I may have broken your rules before, but those were innocent mistakes, all at least not of my purpose. This will be my last post if it is deleted again.
Regards

 

[WAJsal]

@Hu Songshan

Why did you delete my replies to the haters while still keeping their posts up?

My reply to post #49 was deleted where I said nothing wrong or provocative.

If you're going to delete my replies to haters, then delete the hater's post I replied to as well. You allow them to post any crap they want and when I reply, you remove my post while letting them off the hook.

I don't want to discuss this here, but this is getting ridiculous with the double standards.

Please delete this post after you read it.

Thanks

You should direct it to @WAJsal .
I received my first warning for Rules 101. I respect his ruling and I think he actually did a good job as he also deleted the posts of the guy who started the off thread trolling.

I also learnt that, instead of response to the trolling, we should report trolling from those members who only want to needle us. Can someone tell me how and what procedure to report false flag and trolling? Sorry for the off-thread talks again, but I really need to know this. Thanks a lot.

Most of the posts deleted have nothing to do with the topic and since this is a serious topic, all off-topic posts are immediately deleted as they derail the thread. Much like what we have seen.

@WAJsal
Why was this guy still allowed to rant something which I think is direct insult to me, words like " I should not watch too much TV". Is it relevant to what of this article is talking about? That guy also brought up the past act of "my correcting his grammar" again with the purpose, I think , to pick for a fight. Why didn't he mention that it was him who said directly to me that He taught English to new migrants like me in Australia at beginning?( you can check the thread "Korean war: the first we lost" to see if I am telling the truth). I had asked him not quoting me in this thread and put him on the ignore list, but his posts popped up when I didn't log in. You told me I could report for false flag/derail thread in your ruling. So can you tell me how?
I may have broken your rules before, but those were innocent mistakes, all at least not of my purpose. This will be my last post if it is deleted again.
Regards

Our biggest problem is not having the patience to listen to a different opinion, we just want to crush it. It's the same problem everywhere on PDF, every section. We need to learn to follow forum rules, be constructive in debates. Follow forum rules, do not insult others, use acceptable language. Do not attack other members, especially military professionals, or ex-military. We need to be more respectful in our manner.
I will talk to @jhungary , to not start a potential troll war. you are correct such lines are offensive and can be flaming.
Please be careful and take care.
regards

 

[WAJsal]

I do not understand the different between TRACK and MONITOR.
I do understand the difference between TRACK and MONITOR.

What is the difference?

Please do not make such posts as they incite trolling.

Can we forget about all this and get back on topic?

 

[WAJsal]

@WAJsal

lol see what I mean? just 2 minutes after my last post, this come up

Gary, it the holy month of Ramadan. I say we all forget about it and move on. Those who wish to improve will improve and some might not learn. Will clean this thread, please let me add this last comment.
@Tiqiu , i hope you listen to what i have stated in my previous posts.
regards

 

[jhungary]

Gary, it the holy month of Ramadan. I say we all forget about it and move on. Those who wish to improve will improve and some might not learn. Will clean this thread, please let me add this last comment.
@Tiqiu , i hope you listen to what i have stated in my previous posts.
regards

lol, I know, I actually went to Auburn Gallipoli Mosque this monday and talked to the Iman there

Well, I did not fast tho, but anyway. Ramadan Mubarak, Kul 'am wa enta bi-khair.

 

[gambit]

That man don't know what resolution have no relation to how you can recognize a target, he just read something overinflated on a website, and then jump up for joy and refuse to believe when someone actually know that kind of stuff and then what did he do? Resort to personal insult like every other Chinese goonie......like in the movie.....

For people like us, a smile is all that warranted, and if he insist to make an arse out of himself, who are we to say he shouldn't?

These guys are just easily impressed by numbers.

 

[jhungary]

These guys are just easily impressed by numbers.

Oh well.........

This is why they are called "General Population" not everyone is like us that have chance to actually operate these kind of equipment for real, most of them have an over hyperactive imagination on the topic, and the fact that these fan-based article wrote by some Chinese Fan which does not even make any sense to the actual situation does not help.

Problem is, as you said, how many people actually operated fighter aircraft or actually read feed from Satellite before? Let alone knowing how that work? These type of article popsci made may be cool for "General Population" but to us, that would be a good laugh.

But hey, if they want to think GF4 can track shipping or GF4 can guide DF-Whatever to hit a carrier, I am okay with that, I mean, who are we to say they can't make fun of themselves when all that is that they want to do??

Post it for the others, Don't post here for these people, I have posted how ISR work and what is the difference between what human sees and what computer sees, that would be more than enough, for the rest, let's just get some popcorn and enjoy the show..,

 

[gambit]

No body will believe the goal for China spending hundreds of millions to put GF series to the obit is to look for the oil tankers at sea. It is the Chinese way of being diplomatic not to upset our American friend. But if you watch the Chinese video, you will comprehend more about what it is capable of.

That is why in addition to the current optical and heat sensors of GF4, GF3,to be launched in August by CZ-4B rocket,featuring a multi-polarized C-band SAR at meter-level resolution, is designed to detect 3D movements. You may argue that DF4 alone may not give you a conclusive and definite finding of what you seek for, but with GF family, which includes GF1/2/4, and upcoming GF3, to claim of tracking AC is not a remote assertion.

China is not 'upsetting' anyone, least of all US. We have been the leader the satellite imagery long before China modernize herself.

When you look at grandma, the last thing you care about is resolution. What you subconsciously do is PATTERN RECOGNITION. You look at her physical attributes such as height but you do not need to know down to the millimeter. You look at her face but you do not need to know every crease. You look at her hair but you do not need to know every individual strand. I have been wearing glasses for past several yrs but I do not need them to recognize my friends and family. Pattern recognition can be purely visual or even purely aural.

So does the GF-4 uses pattern recognition to 'track' an aircraft carrier ? This is where the distinction between 'monitoring' and 'tracking' is not casual, as your fellow Chinese have dismissed.

 

[Sasquatch]

@Hu Songshan

Why did you delete my replies to the haters while still keeping their posts up?

My reply to post #49 was deleted where I said nothing wrong or provocative.

If you're going to delete my replies to haters, then delete the hater's post I replied to as well. You allow them to post any crap they want and when I reply, you remove my post while letting them off the hook.

I don't want to discuss this here, but this is getting ridiculous with the double standards.

Please delete this post after you read it.

Thanks

Many of the posts that were deleted had noting to with topic , I have not only removed yours but theirs as well. Please report the post and we will deal with it.

 

[Tiqiu]

If a civilian grade JL-1 can track airplane, I say no matter what those want to call it, GF-4 will do the tracking a hundred times better.

It is confirmed that the Shijian-16 01 satellite launched yesterday is a Space Based Radar(SBR). It consists of GMTI, SAR, DTED and etc.

 

[Dungeness]

If a civilian grade JL-1 can track airplane, I say no matter what those want to call it, GF-4 will do the tracking a hundred times better.

It is confirmed that the Shijian-16 01 satellite launched yesterday is a Space Based Radar(SBR). It consists of GMTI, SAR, DTED and etc.

GF-4 can't do it alone, but it can pass information from "hot spots" to supercomputers for process, and then "high probability locations" will be relayed to Chinese version of NOSS constellations (bunch of low earth orbit spy satellites) for further investigation then target tracking if confirmed.

 

[GS Zhou]

An interesting news which mentions the following of GF-4:
- the satellite took its first picture in Jan. 4th.
- By Jan. 31st, it has taken and sent back 4,637 pictures in total.

4637 pictures in 27 days, i.e. 172 pictures per day, or 7 pictures per hour. This is the average speed GF-4 achieved in test stage. In fact, its re-visit time is only 20 seconds!

Bearing in mind of these facts of the satellite, let's imagine the following.

One day, a PLA general read the news that saying the US carrier George Washington will soon visit Brisbane of Australia. He then sent some one there, maybe some Chinese working or studying in Australia. The only thing this guy needs to do is to report when the CVBG leaves Brisbane. Not very difficult job. He can even get this after a drink with the sailors.

When the carrier and its escorts leaves the port, GF-4 would put Brisbane in the center of its camera, start to take picture once every 10 mins and send it back to ground. These small points on the mid of the picture must be the carrier and its escorts! As the pictures taken continually, a tracking chain on this particular carrier (George Washington) established.

 

[Tiqiu]

An interesting news which mentions the following of GF-4:
- the satellite took its first picture in Jan. 4th.
- By Jan. 31st, it has taken and sent back 4,637 pictures in total.

4637 pictures in 27 days, i.e. 172 pictures per day, or 7 pictures per hour. This is the average speed GF-4 achieved in test stage. In fact, its re-visit time is only 20 seconds!
View attachment 314737

View attachment 314742
Bearing in mind of these facts of the satellite, let's imagine the following.

One day, a PLA general read the news that saying the US carrier George Washington will soon visit Brisbane of Australia. He then sent some one there, maybe some Chinese working or studying in Australia. The only thing this guy needs to do is to report when the CVBG leaves Brisbane. Not very difficult job. He can even get this after a drink with the sailors.

When the carrier and its escorts leaves the port, GF-4 would put Brisbane in the center of its camera, start to take picture once every 10 mins and send it back to ground. These small points on the mid of the picture must be the carrier and its escorts! As the pictures taken continually, a tracking chain on this particular carrier (George Washington) established.
View attachment 314746

Exactly. Plus there are many ways which a civilian like us can think of can be applied to distinguish AC and Oil tanker, process like elimination of possibility, or cross examination. After all, AC has some attributes unique to the oil tanker. AC has a different power source thus different thermal signature;AC will travel at least 2 times faster than oil tanker;Ac will sail on random route rather than oil tanker traveling on fixed route. I am sure there are many ways that the development team of GF family knows and they don't want to detail it to us.

 

[Viny]

LOL..............I felt on the floor laughing........I hope that you are joking

But if not, then I can only tell you two words.

"Thermal Imagery" and "Infrared"



Dude, as I said, you should not watch too much TV, that will make you further out of your reality.

The problem is, you are assuming a computer or super computer can do what your eye ball does, to recognize something by just looking at it. Problem is, it is Physically Impossible to ask a computer to recognize an image by simply looking at it, let alone it's "State". Let me tell you how this actually works

What you eye ball see is this

View attachment 314514

However, what a computer see is this

0000000000000011111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111000000000000000000
0000000000111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111110000000000000000
0000000011111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111100000
0000011111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111
0011111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111
0001111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111
0011111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111
0011111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111
0000011111111100000111111111111111111111111111111111100000111111111111111111110000000000000
0000000111111100000111111111111111111111111111111111100000111111111111111110000000000000000

The computer, any computer in this world are operated in a binary sequence hence to represent any image, a series of 0 and 1 are used to represent it. In general term depends on the bit strength of your computer, you may have 16,32,64 0 and 1 to represent 1 single pixel.

Problem is, what a human eye can do is that we can look at an image and we can spot 4 things at the same time. Context (Is the edge rough or something) Contrast (White on Black or other color), Depth (The layer of an image) and General Shape (The outlining boundary of an image) However, for a computer, it can only see the general shape all the time, as this is what 0 and 1 construe, only 2 possibility a processor can accept as an instruction.

Now, do tell me how do you tell the above 0 and 1 image is a carrier equal to the picture you saw? It just doesn't, and the computer actually don't care what it is, as they only see 0 and 1. So it would then be a user input to tell the computer this is a carrier form that 0 and 1 map. But again, can you tell, just from the 0 and 1, that the above 0/1 map IS A CARRIER with your eyes?

The closest computer program that can smartly recognize shapes are facial recognition software. Which detect curves (the bit change from 0-1 or from 1-0) and compare the target image and see how similar those bits allocated. However, you are talking about a human face, which have millions of curves to compare, how many curvature did an aircraft carrier have compare to other ship of the same size??

Hence, unless someone, anyone starting to develop a 4-D or 5-D computer, computer itself cannot use it like that. Or maybe China already did have that kind of computer and then we should all just surrender.

You are looking at things from birds eye point of view while talking about computers, we have moved way ahead in image recognization and with such a super powerfull image captures and super computers like what china has, its 100% possible to do kind of almost real time tracking of objects. 10yrs down the line this was a distant dream, but today many company are doing this kind of tracking using just AWS compute environment.

Fortunately its much more easy to track man made things, with current generation of software tracking the given red car in city with 100s of camera is very much possible. You just need to first identify the car. Chances of false matches will be high if all the cars or majority of the cars are of same shape, size, color and driving in similar patterns. But otherwise tracking things like AC once identified is very simple. And there are various mechanism to split and identify. With super computers like what china has its very much possible to track not one but 100s of vessels, with relevant data. Probably they cannot do it on day 1 but in short period of time when they have ample data to do mining and mapping things it would be very much possible.

Similar techniques are used at some ports for tracking movements of containers using highly placed cameras and this helps in developing plans to optimize the entire process.

 

[jhungary]

You are looking at things from birds eye point of view while talking about computers, we have moved way ahead in image recognization and with such a super powerfull image captures and super computers like what china has, its 100% possible to do kind of almost real time tracking of objects. 10yrs down the line this was a distant dream, but today many company are doing this kind of tracking using just AWS compute environment.

Fortunately its much more easy to track man made things, with current generation of software tracking the given red car in city with 100s of camera is very much possible. You just need to first identify the car. Chances of false matches will be high if all the cars or majority of the cars are of same shape, size, color and driving in similar patterns. But otherwise tracking things like AC once identified is very simple. And there are various mechanism to split and identify. With super computers like what china has its very much possible to track not one but 100s of vessels, with relevant data. Probably they cannot do it on day 1 but in short period of time when they have ample data to do mining and mapping things it would be very much possible.

Similar techniques are used at some ports for tracking movements of containers using highly placed cameras and this helps in developing plans to optimize the entire process.

You, along with other Chinese member here, have misunderstood the meaning of "Track" and the Meaning of "MOnitor"

It's very important for you to understand, to track something, you need to recognize something first. Only you can Identify something over the general area you are monitoring, only then you can start tracking that thing.

Now, imagine this, you are in an ocean, to look for a target, you first need to zoom out to maximum resolution so you can cover the biggest area and take in all the data into your feed. Then you start looking. And consider the optical physics, the further you look at an item, the less detail it can get. And what we are discussing happen in this stage. Alternatively, How do you recognize that is an aircraft carrier when you are looking from afar.

For a human eye, you recognize shape as they appear in curve and contrast, a human face is always paler/lighter than their hair. So you can recognize a human face without any feature of their eyes, nose and mouth. However, it does notwork as a object, because the feature of an object is flat, and uncontrasted. How do you decide whether or not if that is an aircraft carrier or an oil tanker by looking at its image 1000 miles away from you? Given if we can zoom that far? You can't, that's pysically impossible to do it.

For a computer, it would be worse, because a computer only recognize a pixel, and for them a pixel itself means nothing. Unless you have defined a set of instruction to the computer what that is with that bunch of pixel. Now consider this, for a computer, they recognize not the shape of an object, but a change in bits or bytes thata represent a single pixel. But for them, it mean nothing, for a computer without instruction, a change of bits/byte is just that, a change from FF0000FF to FF9999FF.

Now, if you start to put instruction to a computer, then they can interpret what's that change is, however, how do you instruct a computer what is an aircraft carrier? That is what we are talking about here. How do you define an aircraft carrier to a computer? Because without that, a computer cannot understand what is an aircraft carrier..And thus, this is a moot point, because the computer will simply see something on top of something and may be displacing, and that would be the best interpretation any supercomputer can show you.

In Satellie works, the computer canonyl highlight the "Anomaly" on its feed, hence the change of pixel from one square to another. but to determine what that change is by itself? That is some kind of super algorithm I never heard of.