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What to say a mixed bag, I think this was a mixed bag.

Event one sending her Westeros Dothraki army to hell (she has more back home). Who thought of this? She lost over 90,000 riders in a matter of seconds. Everyone knows calvary work best in flanking manoeuvres and surprise assault. Sending a charge in blind, did anyone tell the allied commanders about the 'charge of the light brigade', ' the battle of Bannockburn' etc!

1
You had to build bait for other army to actually fear what was coming
2nd Visual graphics
Yes story was lacking, they were in rush but
Bait worked but King became too weak
3rd even in end game hulk and thor and capital marvel , stongest current avengers didnt do jack
Disappointment after disappointment
 
What to say a mixed bag, I think this was a mixed bag.

Event one sending her Westeros Dothraki army to hell (she has more back home). Who thought of this? She lost over 90,000 riders in a matter of seconds. Everyone knows calvary work best in flanking manoeuvres and surprise assault. Sending a charge in blind, did anyone tell the allied commanders about the 'charge of the light brigade', ' the battle of Bannockburn' etc!

You make a valid point but i think to build the environment around the night king coming close to killing them all , you had to get rid of the Dothraki.
Otherwise i agree as far as the military tactics are concerned. Was intense and well played out i think.
 
1
You had to build bait for other army to actually fear what was coming
2nd Visual graphics
Yes story was lacking, they were in rush but
Bait worked but King became too weak
3rd even in end game hulk and thor and capital marvel , stongest current avengers didnt do jack
Disappointment after disappointment

The problem here is bait them with your crack troops? That's the quickest way to lose a war. Horrible move.
The hilarious thing is that the dead Dothraki just multiplied the numbers!
Oh well the queen needs to go back to Mehreen and fetch the other hundreds of thousands for more suicidal charges lol.
 
The problem here is bait them with your crack troops? That's the quickest way to lose a war. Horrible move.
The hilarious thing is that the dead Dothraki just multiplied the numbers!
Oh well the queen needs to go back to Mehreen and fetch the other hundreds of thousands for more suicidal charges lol.

Hey all's well that ends well. They won, in the end. :D
 
jokes on you he is dead
Arya killed him

I honestly thought it would be Jon who will kill the Night King but totally didn't see Arya doing until the the talk with Red priestess about shutting blue eyes forever and god of death reference from season 1.

The problem here is bait them with your crack troops? That's the quickest way to lose a war. Horrible move.
The hilarious thing is that the dead Dothraki just multiplied the numbers!
Oh well the queen needs to go back to Mehreen and fetch the other hundreds of thousands for more suicidal charges lol.

Dothraki should have been on the flanks to surround the dead but then again we're talking about D&D who are also known as dumb & dumber. Every single of their battles have been directed poorly, I mean you spend so much on the cinematography but does it hurt to hire a few historians versed in medieval battle formations?
 
Dothraki should have been on the flanks to surround the dead but then again we're talking about D&D who are also known as dumb & dumber. Every single of their battles have been directed poorly, I mean you spend so much on the cinematography but does it hurt to hire a few historians versed in medieval battle formations?

Yep insane, the pair lack insight. Thankfully the Dothraki live on. I can't say the same about our lads the unsullied, virtually all wiped out....:(

The crazy part is Cersei actually hedged her bets correctly lol! She now has a far stronger army, minus the dragon part.
 
What most people dont seem to understand, is that GOT is a TV show!!!! it is NOT a film!!! The quality is amazing by TV standards. Truly amazing. You cannot compare it with a big block buster film got Lord of the Rings that cost close to $300M for 3 films!!! This episode cost $10M !! Think about it....
 
For everyone criticising the tactics during the battle of winterfell. Are you guys kidding yourself. I mean this is a show with dragons that breathe fire, dead who come to life, a disabled kid who controls animals and sees the future and shit, an army of ice zombies, giants, black magic and other supernatural shit alot to even list here and you are worried about how the **** a few naked horsemen ran into battle :hitwall:
 
I think it was not a good idea by letting Arya killed the night king, a powerful king that was hyped for all these 8 seasons die very easily .. at least he and Jon should have a sword fight .
 
You make a valid point but i think to build the environment around the night king coming close to killing them all , you had to get rid of the Dothraki.
Otherwise i agree as far as the military tactics are concerned. Was intense and well played out i think.

They didn't need to all die bro, well in Westeros at least. But anyway the so called queen can explain that to their kinsman back home lol.

a disabled kid who controls animals and sees the future and shit

Don't get me even started on that useless piece of $hit, "Theon you're a good man", but I won't life a finger to help the fight.
One of the most useless characters in the series. It's sad Jamie didn't kill him in episode 1 instead of crippling him. :rofl:
 
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Don't get me even started on that useless piece of $hit, "Theon you're a good man", but I won't life a finger to help the fight.
One of the most useless characters in the series. It's sad Jamie didn't kill him in episode 1 instead of crippling h
Oh yes he is an asshole for what he did. He could have atleast controlled a dire wolf or something and fought like he did in the past but no he has to be a total POS. Theon however was epic. His redemption. He went from a character who no one cared about to someone everyone hated and then to someone who everyone rooted for. Truly a masterpiece by the writer.

I think it was not a good idea by letting Arya killed the night king, a powerful king that was hyped for all these 8 seasons die very easily .. at least he and Jon should have a sword fight .
Atleast John wasn't killed off:rofl:
 
Oh yes he is an asshole for what he did. He could have atleast controlled a dire wolf or something and fought like he did in the past but no he has to be a total POS. Theon however was epic. His redemption. He went from a character who no one cared about to someone everyone hated and then to someone who everyone rooted for. Truly a masterpiece by the writer.


Atleast John wasn't killed off:rofl:

Why couldn’t he also blind the dead or create an illusion or something? Totally useless bro.

Lol and John did nothing, the dragon did more damage...
 
Lol I like how u r taking an issue with me writing my opinion...and then u proceed to do the same.

The story itself and the portrayal of it by the actors, stunt performers, camera crew, etc. are two different things independent of each other. A story can be good and it can be portrayed to audience in a terrible way...or the story can be bad even though the actors(and the rest) did a marvelous job. So yes the actors, director, camera crew, stunt performers and everyone involved did a wonderful job in making this happen...but the story that they enacted had flaws.
Bro, I am not asserting that your views do not have merit but you are overlooking different realities as well. Continue to read below.

That's a quite obvious fact...nowhere in my post I took an issue with that. An example of this was Davos signaling Jon/Dany for their dragon fire and they were not there bcuz things had changed...they were in pursuit of the Night King...
...my main point was their strategy from the beginning was a wrong one...they knew better bcuz they had some intel on their enemy, which was enough to know that an offensive strategy(like charging on open ground) against hundreds of thousands of undead would be useless and counterproductive in a sense.
Understand that the army of the living was also massive in size - 8 - 9 banners were involved in various capacities in total.

Winterfell was/is a large castle but not large enough to accommodate battlefield-relevant formations of a huge force within. A large number of men were stationed outside the castle before the dead arrived - you can notice this dynamic in episode 2. In fact, Sansa Stark pointed out that she wasn't equipped to provide for a huge force to begin with - refer to episode 1.

lz059zqk4qt21.jpg


In the light of the above, the living had no choice but to establish battlefield-relevant formations of men outside the castle in the face of the expected battle. They chose to lay lot of traps and obstacles inside the castle and also a thick layer of obstacles outside the castle. But they had to factor-in the possibility of retreating behind the walls (if need be) before setting the outer layer of obstacles on fire.

Please understand that a purely defensive fight can/could also go wrong. Perhaps the living felt that the Dothraki horde would take a major bite out of the dead with a powerful charge (the horde was large enough to cut through a large force of men with ease) but the dead had no fear and proved much resilient/relentless; the look on the face of the people at the sight of the Dothraki horde falling apart so easily was very telling. Daenerys lost her temper and decided to take matters into her hands soon after whereas many were like WTF (morale was apparently waning at this stage).

The dead charged next - and did you notice the sheer size of the first wave and the punch it packed? If it weren't for the dragons, even the initial wave of the dead would have cut down many of the living in a short span. Thanks to the dragons, a large number of men got the opportunity to retreat behind the walls.

I never said they should've tried flanking. I said small teams of elite fighters hunting for the night king or his lieutenants(it would be akin to elite special forces being air dropped behind enemy lines)...as we saw earlier in the last season when Daenerys rescued Jon and his crew north of the wall...a dragon can easily carry a small group of men. With two dragons...they could've easily dropped off at least two teams(at the place where u see Jon/Dany standing atop a cliff with the view of the castle on their right side when the Dothraki charge).

Once the bulk of the undead army was focused on charging towards the castle...this small group of fighters could've tried to find and kill the lieutenants of the night king. Yes the night king's lieutenants are not easy to take down...but a few have been taken down before...so it's not impossible. In the event that their efforts are in vain and all of these(like 8-10) fighters die without killing the lieutenants...that's not much different then these ppl fighting inside the castle walls(the castle was overrun and everyone would've died had Arya not killed the night king). However had they been successful in killing a couple of the night king's lieutenants...it would've taken out a large chunk of the undead.
Dude, you serious?

1. Army of the dead had about 100 lieutenants in total.
2. Visibility was very poor.
3. Daenerys and John were like miles away from the castle - bringing some men to this spot would have been inconsequential.
4. Daenerys and John were waiting for the Night King to show up but the latter proved smarter.
5. How would the living know that the Night King would choose to keep his lieutenants in the rear during the course of the assault of the dead on the living?

You are assuming too much.

In any case...killing the lieutenants and preferably the night king was the only real choice if they ever hoped to win. Fighting the undead hordes was a lost cause...the wildlings have done it...the night's watch has done it...but to no avail.
Indeed, but the Night King and his lieutenants were not taking the bait.

They already knew how huge were the numbers of the undead...anyone with half a brain would know that a Dothraki charge in this case wouldn't be helpful bcuz eventually it would come to a halt due to just the sheer difference in numbers. Even if one Dothraki kills 100 of the undead before he dies, the night king can just raise those dothraki to be part of his undead army...whereas the living just lost the numbers on their side with no way of replenishing it.
I do not disagree with this part, but see above.

This would be valid had they never met this enemy before...but they already knew how great their numbers are and how they keep swarming...hence an open field close range battle is literally the worst option.

Their best option would've been to dig more trenches(further out than the only trench they dug)...like 3 more for example...all filled with oil. The first two in the range of their archers(with flaming arrows) while the other two further out enough where it can be lit up by dragon fire(the initial attacks carried out by jon and dany). Let the undead horde advance all the way up the first trench and then light up all 4 trenches. This would have trapped the undead horde on the spaces between those fired up trenches where they could've flattened them out with catapults and arrows raining fire...as opposed to using their catapults once and charging with Dothraki instead on an open field.
I get the impression that the dead did not give Winterfell much time for preparations.

They already knew the Night King could create storms. This is literally a quote from Jon Snow saying "the true enemy won't wait out the storm, he brings the storm", not to mention when the night's watch had a run in with the white walkers at the fist of the first men...there was an accompanying storm, which ended once the white walkers had passed. This was no secret to them...so planning accordingly they should've put oil in the trenches so they could set it on fire...this isn't something new...they used oil at the wall when mance attacked.
They might be short on oil at the time?

The dead began to cut through formations of the living like butter out in the open? I thought u were taking an issue with my statement when I said that it was a stupid move to charge at undead army out in an open battlefield. Why the sudden change of heart?
As I pointed out above, the living had no choice but to take their chances with the dead outside the castle, to reduce numbers of the dead and to kill the Night King if possible.

As for what could human commanders do when the dead were overpowering them? The reason why they got overpowered so quickly is bcuz they didnt plan a fully defensive strategy to begin with. If they hadn't charged with the Dothraki(among one of their best fighting forces), the Dothraki would've helped immensely in fighting off the undead once they breached the castle. Instead they decided to just toss aside the Dothraki in a useless move. If they had decided to put oil in the trenches, they could just shoot a flaming arrow to light it...which would've saved a great number of the unsullied(also among one of their best fighting forces). The reason why the unsullied had to cover the retreat and form a blockade against the undead hordes for so long is bcuz they couldn't light the trench on fire(until finally the red woman did her magic). Obviously with so many different theatres of battle...spread out over a large distance...communication and keeping central command would be next to impossible. But they didnt have this limitation before battle started. That's when a general(Jon?) along with other strategists should've devised a defensive plan with multiple layers. If we can't hold line A...fall back to line B...etc. Once the battle has started then each person commanding at the local level can give commands according to the circumstances of their situation.
1. Lack of space inside the castle for battlefield-relevant formations like in the outside.
2. Lack of time for best possible preparations.
3. The Dothraki could maneuver best out in the open; horses could provide mobility and speed.
4. Numerous fire arrows were unloaded on the thick layer of obstacles outside the castle but stormy conditions prevented them from setting fire to the obstacles instead.

I never said its unrealistic. As for the dragon glass shards...yes they did put them on the walls but clearly not enough bcuz the undead had no problem climbing it. At least for the trench on fire...u see that they are having trouble to cross it until some of them make a path by putting out the fire by dumping their bodies on it. This wasn't the case for climbing the walls. They climbed right on as if there was no hindrance.
The dead managed to scale the walls by climbing over each other until the mass of reanimated bodies reached high enough from the surface for numerous reanimated bodies to get through. Not sure why this development irk you.

That was bound to happen eventually...it doesn't mean the living had to be stupid and sacrifice some of their best fighters(the unsullied and the dothraki) due to stupidity in their planning. Had they dug more trenches that were then lit on fire, trapping the enemy in between(even if just for a little while) and pummel away at them with arrows and catapults, the number of dead breaching the castle would've been considerably less...and their advance to the castle would've been much slower. Then once breached there would be the unsullied to protect(with their phalanx like wall of shields and spears) main gate's breach and the dothraki to fight alongside others fighting in the castle. This would overall better their chances(prolong their survival time) as opposed to the partly offensive strategy they tried, where something as useful as the catapults were basically a showpiece.
See above.

Im not asking nor expecting fan service. This is season 8 of this show...do u not think I realize how this show works by now? If fan service was what I was after, my post wouldn't have been about battle plans or rushing the night king's death but more about which characters should have lived or died.
Night King's death in episode 3 make sense because how he would be stopped at a later stage?
 
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Absolutely, well said.

Danerys is unfortunately back to the drawing board - almost ZERO now. If it weren't for her armies, Winterfell would have fallen much earlier.


John Snow taking out the Night King - a predictable move. I got the impression that the Night King was too strong and capable in melee for John to hang with for long.

Arya Stark taking out the Night King is far from bad actually - when the Red Woman met Arya the first time, the Red Woman pointed out that Arya would bring down 3 notable figures.

Brown eyes
Green eyes
Blue eyes

she said brown eyes blue eyes and green eyes. but in this episode she says brown green blue this is too jumbled to be prophetic. I think ever since they moved on from the books they have tried to keep up the formula of unexpected but came short. Maybe we are too fixated on the black and white of good and evil that the fight seemed short on expectations (because of the hype created azor ahai?) but in fact the series is about the musical chair of thrones that is yet to come.
 
Bro, I am not asserting that your views do not have merit but you are overlooking different realities as well. Continue to read below.


Understand that the army of the living was also massive in size - 8 banners were involved in various capacities in total.

Winterfell was a large castle but not large enough to accommodate battlefield-relevant formations of a huge force within. A large number of men were stationed outside the castle before the dead arrived - you can notice this dynamic in episode 2. In fact, Sansa Stark pointed out that she wasn't equipped to provide for a huge force to begin with - refer to episode 1.

lz059zqk4qt21.jpg


In the light of the above, the living had no choice but to establish battlefield-relevant formations of men outside the castle in the face of the expected battle. They chose to lay lot of traps and obstacles inside the castle and also a thick layer of obstacles outside the castle. But they had to factor-in the possibility of retreating behind the walls (if need be) before setting the outer layer of obstacles on fire.

Please understand that a purely defensive fight can/could also go wrong. Perhaps the living felt that the Dothraki horde would take a major bite out of the dead with a powerful charge (the horde was large enough to cut through a large force of men with ease), but the dead were absolutely fearless and deadly; the look on the face of the people at the sight of the Dothraki horde falling apart so easily was very telling. Daenerys lost her temper and decided to take matters into her hands soon after whereas many were like WTF (morale was apparently waning at this stage).

The dead charged next - and did you notice the sheer size of the first wave and the punch it packed? If it weren't for the dragons, even the initial wave of the dead would have cut down many of the living outside. Thanks to the dragons, a large number of men got the opportunity to retreat behind the walls.


Dude, you serious?

1. Army of the dead had about 100 lieutenants in total.
2. Visibility was very poor.
3. Daenerys and John were like miles away from the castle - bringing some men to this spot would have been inconsequential.
4. Daenerys and John were waiting for the Night King to show up but the latter proved smarter.
5. How would the living know that the Night King would choose to keep his lieutenants in the rear during the course of the assault of the dead on the living?

You are assuming too much.


Indeed but the Night King and his lieutenants were not taking the bait.


I do not disagree with this part, but see above.


I get the impression that the dead did not give Winterfell much time for preparations.


They might be short on oil at the time?


As I pointed out above, the living had no choice but to take their chances with the dead outside the castle, to reduce numbers of the dead and to kill the Night King if possible.


[1] Lack of space inside the castle for battlefield-relevant formations like in the outside.
[2] Lack of time for best possible preparations.
[3] The Dothraki could maneuver best out in the open; horses could provide mobility and speed.
[4] Numerous fire arrows were unloaded on the thick layer of obstacles outside the castle but stormy conditions prevented them from setting fire to the obstacles instead.


The dead managed to scale the walls by climbing over each other until the mass of reanimated bodies reached high enough from the surface for numerous reanimated bodies to get through. Not sure why this development irk you.


See above.


Night King's death in episode 3 make sense because how he would be stopped at a later stage?
I didn't realise Denerys has made you Propaganda Minister or something? Dude relax its a TV show. You've got waaay too much time on your hands.
 

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