From Pakistan, Diplomats Wrote About a Vexing Ally

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

No there was no such interview ever, other wise indians may have posted such interview without any delay and indian media would have been resonating it for long time.

check the thread with that name (pakistan is the most bullied ally) in the PW section, it definitely sounds like Kiyani, though the source is kept 'anonymous'.

 

[BATMAN]

It sound sensible enough to be associated with some sensible person but it was never heard of before.

No one can miss kyiani's interview and if such remarks are news now, it will have been same effect any time.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

This is all known information, but still no less tragic in its impact on the lives of millions of Pakistanis. The real sadness comes with the realisation that none of this will change in the foreseeable future.

In defence of Kiyani's actions - this was the period in which Zardari was dragging the country towards anarchy, violence and instability because of his confrontation with the Sharifs.

The sharifs had been disqualified and the PMLN government dismissed in the Punjab. The lawyers were up in arms over Zardari reneging on his promise to restore the judiciary, as were various other political parties, since restoration of the judiciary had been the centerpiece of the movement to remove Musharraf.

On top of all that, some commentators have argued that the security flaws that led to the stack on the Sri lankan team were furled result of Governor's rule and the massive transfers in bureaucracy, especially law enforcement, initiated by Salman Taseer to marginalize the Pmln. With the country sliding into chaos because of Zardari's irrational and powerhungry actions, there was certainly a need for someone to intervene and broker a compromise, and that individual happened to be Kiyani. His actions brought Pakistan back from the brink of chaos, and kept in place the elected government and a semblance of stability.

And yet Zardari refused to learn, as his subsequent controversial actions showed.

 

[Hyde]

COAS Kayani mused takeover: leaked cables​

Updated at: 0400 PST, Wednesday, December 01, 2010
WASHINGTON: Pakistan's army chief COAS Kayani mused about forcing out civilian President Asif Ali Zardari who has made preparations for a coup or assassination, leaked US diplomatic cables said Tuesday.

The latest tranche of memos, obtained by whistleblower site WikiLeaks and reported by American and British newspapers, also showed that the United States was more concerned than it let on publicly about Pakistan's nuclear arsenal.

General Ashfaq Kayani, chief of Pakistan's powerful military, told the US ambassador during a March 2009 meeting that he "might, however reluctantly," pressure Zardari to resign, according to cable cited by the papers.

Kayani was quoted as saying that he might support Asfandyar Wali Khan, leader of the Awami National League Party, as the new president -- not Zardari's arch-nemesis Nawaz Sharif.

In another cable quoted by both newspapers, US Vice President Joe Biden recounted to Britain's then prime minister Gordon Brown a conversation with Zardari last year.

Zardari told him that Kayani and the Inter-Services Intelligence agency "will take me out," according to the cable. The paper said the cables also showed that Zardari has made extensive preparations in case he is killed.

Tensions between Zardari and the army are no secret, and Pakistan often witnesses coup rumors.

After Kayani met in September with Zardari and Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani, the now-exiled Musharraf quipped: "I can assure you they were not discussing the weather."

 

[mehboobkz]

Indeed, the consul general in Peshawar wrote in 2008 that she believed that some members of the Haqqani network — one of the most lethal groups attacking American and Afghan soldiers — had left North Waziristan to escape drone strikes. Some family members, she wrote, relocated south of Peshawar; others lived in Rawalpindi, where senior Pakistani military officials also live.

Is this shocking by wikileaks ¿¿¿

 

[Hyde]

Is this shocking by wikileaks ¿¿¿

where did you copy this?
its not in the news shared in the first post

Source please?

 

[TechLahore]

This is exactly what I meant earlier when I said the popular press will spin these leaks to suit their own purposes; nefarious or simply conveying a spicier story.

Gen. Kiyani did NOT contemplate a takeover at all, and none of the dispatches say this. He simply said e would be forced to use his weight and pressure zardari to resign, and would *support* wali. He further indicated that the parliament should remain as should the PM.

This is not a takeover by any measure.

 

[Hyde]

This is exactly what I meant earlier when I said the popular press will spin these leaks to suit their own purposes; nefarious or simply conveying a spicier story.

Gen. Kiyani did NOT contemplate a takeover at all, and none of the dispatches say this. He simply said e would be forced to use his weight and pressure zardari to resign, and would *support* wali. He further indicated that the parliament should remain as should the PM.

This is not a takeover by any measure.

Just for General knowledge,

Chief Justice of Pakistan was reinstated in March 2009 and this wikileak is talking about General Kayani thinking to takeover Zardari in the same month. It was when the whole nation was in the streets and marching to Islamabad from all over the country.

There is a slight possibility that it could be true but more likely an attempt to create differences between the President & COAS. The wikileaks have targeted Pakistan ferociously, first they tried to create rift with Saudi King, The prince of Dubai, Nuclear program and now here comes the COAS & President

 

[Awesome]

Every COAS in Pakistan has this in the back of his mind, but the key thing to note is that Kayani was reluctant to do this and didn't do it at a time when the entire nation was on the streets against Zardari and would have welcomed it yet again.

Only thing surprising for me is that he would support Asfandyar Wali Khan. Makes no sense.

 

[EjazR]

US embassy cables: XXXXXXXXXXXX PROVIDES GRIM ASSESSMENT OF SITUATION IN THE NWFP AND FATA | World news | guardian.co.uk


1. (C) A senior Federally Administered Tribal Areas official told Acting Principal Officer (APO) that nearly all girls' schools in the FATA would be closed by the January 15, 2009 deadline set by militants; since then, the militants have relented marginally and allowed girls to attend school up to grade four. XXXXXXXXXXXX believes the GOP has given up on Swat, Northwest Frontier Province (NWFP) for now. The current Khyber operation was launched to counter local militants who had set up operations near Peshawar as well as to secure truck convoys.

2. (S) XXXXXXXXXXXX said he believes the GOP does not understand the gravity of the situation in FATA. The predominantly Shi'a town of Hangu may be attacked by Sunni militants during Muharam celebrations. He believes that if the taliban began to control the NWFP, they could not administer it and XXXXXXXXXXXX might need to join their ranks just to survive. XXXXXXXXXXXX's assessment is less hopeful than most of post's contacts but accurately reflects a growing pessimism and frustration among some concerning the future of the FATA and NWFP. End Summary.

3. (C) XXXXXXXXXXXX provided his assessment of the situation in the Northwest Frontier Province (NWFP) and Federally Administered Tribal Areas (FATA) XXXXXXXXXXXX

Closure Of Girls Schools?

-------------------------

4. (C) XXXXXXXXXXXX said some girls schools will likely try to remain technically open after the January 15 deadline set my militants for their closure. However, the practical effect will be that almost all government girls' schools and probably all private girls' schools in the FATA will either close or have no students attending them. He said this was because of the widespread fear of the taliban XXXXXXXXXXXX. (Note: Since this meeting, the local militants have agreed to allow girls to attend school up to grade four.)

Troop Redeployments

---------------------

5. (S) XXXXXXXXXXXX stated that the decision to pull troops out of Swat was less about needed troops on the border with India as alleged in the press and more about a decision by the GOP to "give up on Swat for now." He asserted "we have given the taliban the north of Swat, so why not give them the city of Mingora too." XXXXXXXXXXXX who has only anecdotal information about other troop pullouts from FATA and the NWFP, opined that these would likely be "token as a show of force for the India situation."

Khyber Operation - FATA A Priority?

-----------------------------------

6. (C) XXXXXXXXXXXX stated what other post contacts have told us, namely the current operation in Khyber was about more than simply insuring the safety of truck convoys between Peshawar and Torkham. Local unnamed militants had set up kidnapping for ransom operations near Peshawar to fund their operations. He claimed funding operations through kidnapping had become a major source of revenue for the taliban in FATA, where previously they had relied more on "outside funding." He reasoned that this was an indication that the militancy had become a true insurgency that had wider implications for Pakistan outside the NWFP, but the GOP in Islamabad did not appreciate the gravity of the situation. He asserted that "FATA as a federal priority has dropped of the list since the India situation has come to light."

PESHAWAR 00000002 002 OF 003

North Waziristan Location Of Hostages?

--------------------------------------

7. (C) XXXXXXXXXXXX----------------

8. (S) XXXXXXXXXXXX said he wanted to say in an unofficial capacity that he and many others could accept Predator strikes as they were surgical and clearly hitting high value targets. He mentioned that fear among the local populace in areas where the strikes have been occurring was lessening because "everyone knew that they only hit the house or location of very bad people." He wondered why the strikes did not seem to target more of the taliban which he reasoned was needed. He said "our house is on fire and we need to take drastic actions."

In Camera Session And ISI

-------------------------

9. (S) XXXXXXXXXXXX confided that ISI, (Note: Pakistan's military intelligence. End note), during the in camera session of the parliament recently, had briefed lawmakers and senior GOP officials concerning the virtues of some taliban elements versus the "real militants." They reasoned small numbers from some of the militant groups could be useful in future operations in Kashmir or elsewhere. XXXXXXXXXXXX said although not everyone present agreed with the assertion it was this line of reasoning that contributed to his fear of the future.

The Future

----------

10. (C) The future, according to XXXXXXXXXXXX, was likely to include an attack by Sunni militants on the predominantly Shi'a town of Hangu during the Muharam celebrations. (Note. After Kurram, Orakzai Agency, where Hangu serves as the administrative headquarters, has the second highest concentration of Shi'a in the region, at almost 10 per cent. End note.)

11. (C) In six to twelve months, XXXXXXXXXXXX predicted, a lack of focus from Islamabad could leave the taliban in control of both FATA and NWFP. If that happened, the taliban would need help administering the area. He said the prospect was causing him and others to begin to figure out how to individually survive the coming taliban. He said "for one I am thinking that the taliban could capture the NWFP but they don't know how to administer it so they might need administrators like me and I might have to join the taliban at some point to just survive."

Comment

- - - -

12. (C) XXXXXXXXXXXX's concerns for the future are not widely expressed by other post contacts, at least not in the dark terms he describes, but accurately reflect a growing pessimism and frustration concerning the future of the FATA and NWFP. Most view the current deteriorating security situation as reversible; for example, XXXXXXXXXXXX is hopeful of being able to defeat the militants in the short term. Others point to the relative successes of recent engagements in Bajaur to support their view that the GOP can turn the tide in both the short and long term.

13. (C) The new level of pessimism from XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Nevertheless, it is disturbing that XXXXXXXXXXXX believes the militants are winning in both FATA and NWFP. VIA

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

^^^ That is a pretty dated assessment, and one that has since been shown to be largely inaccurate given that the military did indeed launch Operation Rah-e-Raast to retake Buner, Swat Dir and Shangla districts, and subsequently also initiated and expanded operations in South Waziristan, Bajaur, Mohmand, Khyber, Orakzai etc.

The most recent polls sponsored by 2 American organizations (TFT and NAF) also indicate that a very significant majority of people across Pakistan, including the NWFP and FATA, oppose the drone strikes.

 

[Awesome]

Everybody's dirty has been conclusively proven. Nobody has doubts who triggered the KLB fiasco and manipulated the media. An Army chief talking to foreign ambassadors about replacing his own President. Can't get any more dangerous and shameful than that. A President looking to hold onto things however possible. A Prime Minister of no concern whatsoever. Domestic politics where both Zardari and Kayani have called each other's bluffs perfectly and managed to maneuverer things the way they can.

Thank you, wikileaks. Apologists, I look forward to what rhetoric can be created now.

The cables were a big read, can you point out the parts about the Kerry Lugar Bill.

The discussion of asking Zardari to resign during the Long March time with Anne Patterson was a poor choice, but he did say reluctantly and then he never did it, so he mused about it, but didn't pull the trigger. Lets face it in Pakistan every COAS has the option - in fact every Army chief of the world has this option, they shouldn't go around saying this - agreed, but the cables don't say in what context that discussion went, may be he she questioned him about it?

Anyway, my point still remains - as apologetic as it may sound (personally I like the guy for the very reason that he has a commitment to democracy) that he didn't go ahead with it - which would've been a lot worse than a loose slip.

Anyway, please point out the parts about the Kerry Lugar Bill, I would be interested in knowing the behind the scenes stuff on that.

 

[Icarus]

These guys have no idea how difficult it is to manufacture a dirty bomb even if you have enough radioactive material.
Firstly, the terrorist handling the material will be killed by radiation sickness in a matter of minutes.
Secondly, what will the terrorists pack the material in ? It gives out a very strong reading which will be picked up in no time.
Thirdly, how will they bring about nuclear detonation ? As I remember, you need a neutron gun to set off a fission reaction(which is not very common on the black market). Pack it with explosives and blow it up and the result will be "Kaput" most of the material will be vaporized, that left behind will have a localised effect spread out too thin due to the force of the explosion to cause any serious damage.

 

[Khalids]

If we consider the recent policy shift in army recruitment to increase the number of Balochis and other neglected factions of Pakistan, he might be thinking to support a politician from KPK to win the hearts of masses in favor of Pak army, IMHO.

Another thing, that should be asked, is, should we hope that this thinking of generals of being king makers will change soon?

 

[SQ8]

Every COAS in Pakistan has this in the back of his mind, but the key thing to note is that Kayani was reluctant to do this and didn't do it at a time when the entire nation was on the streets against Zardari and would have welcomed it yet again.

Only thing surprising for me is that he would support Asfandyar Wali Khan. Makes no sense.

doubt that..
he would be risking anarchy in Karachi..