From Pakistan, Diplomats Wrote About a Vexing Ally

[Spring Onion]

Kiyani has saved current government of Zardari many times even about two months back when zardari and Co had messed up everything by confronting with Judiciary .

these leaks are once again i will say stinking cheap attempts

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Threads merged, since they discuss similar/same issues

 

[Spring Onion]

One thing is very interesting to note that considering Asfandyar Wali a Pukhtun nationalist from ANP by Gen Kiyani the Chief of Pakistan Army has proved all those morons wrong who are spitting venom that Pukhtuns are being targeted.

 

[Solomon2]

Something sparklingway seems to have missed in the 2/10 cable:

¶5. (C) While we have had major successes in our military andlaw enforcement cooperation with Pakistan, cooperation has frequently been hampered by suspicion in Pakistan's military and intelligence establishment about U.S. intentions and objectives. Among other things, the Pakistanis believe that we have favored India over Pakistan -- most notably, by approving civil-nuclear cooperation with India -- and that we aim to dismantle Pakistan's nuclear weapons program, which, in light of their conventional military disadvantage vis-a-vis India, they consider critical to their national security. The military and intelligence establishment is also concerned that we are working with Pakistan's civilian leadership to limit the military's prerogative in determining Pakistan's national security policies. As a result of these concerns, the military and intelligence establishment has taken steps since Spring 2009 to hamper the operations of the Embassy. These steps include holding up the issuance and renewal of Pakistani visas for permanent Embassy staff and TDYers; denying import permits for armored vehicles for Embassy use; sabotaging our contract with DynCorp International to provide enhanced protective support for Consulate General Peshawar personnel; slowing down importation of U.S. assistance for the Pakistani government, including equipment for Pakistani law enforcement agencies; shutting down our Anti-Terrorism Assistance (ATA) training program at Pakistan's Sihala Police Academy; putting up roadblocks for our acquiring additional land for the Embassy's expansion; and harassing Embassy personnel by stopping and detaining Embassy vehicles. Some of these problems have recently abated in response to our repeatedly raising them with the highest levels of the Pakistani government. However, we expect we will have to continue to push back against such impediments for the foreseeable future.

So the Pakistani military itself is working to keep itself free from civilian oversight. Rule-of-law suffers, and that pervades Pakistani society. Remember, all those stories in the Pakistani press about U.S. diplomats carrying weapons and the evils of Blackwater? All, it seems, were plants by the military or intelligence agencies. And most Pakistanis fell for them, hook, line, and sinker. If you wonder where anti-Americanism comes from and who benefits and suffers from it, you don't have far to look, do you?

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

Something sparklingway seems to have missed in the 2/10 cable:
So the Pakistani military itself is working to keep itself free from civilian oversight. Rule-of-law suffers, and that pervades Pakistani society. Remember, all those stories in the Pakistani press about U.S. diplomats carrying weapons and the evils of Blackwater? All, it seems, were plants by the military or intelligence agencies. And most Pakistanis fell for them, hook, line, and sinker. If you wonder where anti-Americanism comes from and who benefits and suffers from it, you don't have far to look, do you?

Oh didnt the Whitehouse officials every now and then planted the info regarding OBL's presence in Pakistan or possibility of Pakistani nukes being stolen by retards and ISI playing the double game etc etc
It too was nothing but a propagandic BS based on no truth being perpetuated against Pakistan by the US Establishment.


The point is in every country including US, press is being regulated by some entity in order to highlight the motives

 

[blain2]

Everybody's dirty has been conclusively proven. Nobody has doubts who triggered the KLB fiasco and manipulated the media. An Army chief talking to foreign ambassadors about replacing his own President. Can't get any more dangerous and shameful than that. A President looking to hold onto things however possible. A Prime Minister of no concern whatsoever. Domestic politics where both Zardari and Kayani have called each other's bluffs perfectly and managed to maneuverer things the way they can.

Thank you, wikileaks. Apologists, I look forward to what rhetoric can be created now.

There is none. If we look within, we will realize how bloody bankrupt we are as a nation, morally and ethically. This is the ugly truth and should be considered and realized without having to worry about what every other Tom, Dick and Harry are up to in India, Afghanistan etc. etc.

As far as the role of the Army is concerned, I must say that all of what is being revealed in the wikileaks seems to be news to most, but the Army has been involved in this business for a very long time. One could blame the Army for this involvement but there is more to it than meets the eye. This exact same level of interaction went on throughout the decade of the 90s simply because nobody has been able to gain the confidence of the Army by governing effectively. The foreign policy continues to remain a mess and the less said the better about domestic governance. This is the ground reality and unfortunately the civilian government has been loath to giving Armed forces an official voice through the NSC and the ramifications of this stand (against having an NSC) is that the Army has to use alternate channels to communicate its institutional stance on various issues concerning the government.

Some people will continue to harp on the sad state of the Pakistani democracy due to Army's overt involvement, but the only way forward is to allow the three services to have a voice in matters of the state through the NSC and then over time wean their involvement. Barring that, any or all calls to limit Army's role in politics is bound to fall on deaf ears and more realistically will result is stonewalling by the armed forces. Lastly, before folks jump in and start citing examples of other countries, please don't bother with that. Pakistan has a very original set of issues and problems facing her. One cannot compare Pakistan's situation with other regional countries to suggest that Pakistan should be following this or that model. The only model that will work in the mid-term is that of an active NSC advising the government and in the long term this body can be deprecated in favour of more active national security and intelligence committees of the senate and national assembly.