French LE Want More 9mm Subguns, Solicitation Posted

[jhungary]

Haha, there are more than you think. Alberta with MarStar etc...would be a pretty big hub if there was cheaper + quality + full auto + legal (tick all boxes). There is a "canadian gun nutz" online community I used to post quite frequently and found lots of interesting resources and debates etc.

Biggest thing here in Canada is of course legally you cannot own a firearm for self protection purpose (when you get the PAL, sporting, hunting etc are the only valid reasons you can put in the paperwork)...and there is no 2nd amendment, ownership is basically privilege, not a right. So we are definitely hamstrung from get go compared to US civilians, that is very true.

But there is definite interest and "gun-nuttery" that would provide decent demand I think if things changed in the legal/supply fronts....mostly in Alberta and then the Canadian rural areas and boonies. I know this because great buddy of mine (and house mate for number of years) is probably top 1% percentile of gun nuts worldwide heh and was instrumental in getting me more interested/active on the topic (back in university) in first place given his huge collection (which runs in his immediate family, I think in total they own well over 100 among 3 people now). He personally told me many times he would love to own MP5 (he's a big HK nut in general, it was his SL-8 i.e semi auto G36 that convinced me to get one too).

It basically depends where you go in Canada. Of course big cities generally have the biggest anti-gun people/zones/politics/attitudes but even there it depends. Once you leave the cities to suburbs and then towns/village/farms you get a good decent level of gun loving folk....many of whom I am sure wouldn't say no to having a MP-5 or two if they were cheaper and legal

lol, I didn't say there weren't any gun-nutz in Canada (There are gun nutz everywhere even In Australia, when there are absolute control of firearms) I am saying the gun nuts market is not as big as the US to justify such a transaction, even if automatic weapon are legal.

There are a lot of gun-nuttery you can see In the US, range are allow to have all type of weapon for you to play with, and civilian ownership is quite lax, there are a lot of weapon you can buy in the US legally, from machine gun to grenade launcher (Yes, you can buy a M203 grenade launcher in some states) which is over what normal gun-nuttery people can get. Yet, because of this openness, It keep the pre-ban weapon sale going even after it's absolutely hack to just to get a Automatic MP5 or any Automatic weapon in that sense.

I actually think the term "Gun-Nuttery" is different between Canada and the US. In the States, gun nuts are not just a collector, gun nuts are the one that go deep down to the bottom of a barrel and find the gun they wanted, I used to be a firearms dealers and have a title 2 stamp on my FFL, from my work with a local Kansas PD where my friend's dad is a sheriff (I basically buy, maintain and modify their SWAT team equipment) and I have dealt with a few gun nuts in the states myself, people who are crazy enough to do more than just shoot the weapon, they want to know the history of that weapon and really enjoy their collection. Not to mention to exercise their 2nd amendment right to the extreme. And for this people, money is nothing..

I had this customer who lives in an apartment complex back in 2007 come and ask me about M203 grenade launcher attachment, M203 is a NFA Title 2 firearms but was not banned by BATF because it is not an "Automatic Weapon" which mean I can pop down to a gun shop who are authorise to deal Title 2 firearms, pay a $200 transfer fee and get a brand new Knights Armament M203 grenade launcher or even HK M320 Grenade Launcher, everyone can do that, because it is totally legit to own in some state (including Kansas). The M203 will cost you around $1300 to $1500 per tube plus ATF transfer tax. TO begin with, what is the use of a M203 launcher at home? It goes way above home protection (In fact if you fire a 40 mm grenade on a burglar, you will probably destroy your house) and so he have no reason to buy one. At least not a reason I can think of, but since this is a NFA firearms, he can get it.

But the story did not end there, since each 40mm round is also classified as explosive device, hence any 40mm rounds are treated like a grenade, which mean each rounds would have a BATF tax to come with. Which mean even tho each rounds cost you around $35, in effect, you will have to pay $235 for each 40mm round to take them home. So, 4 40mm rounds would have the same prices as a Launcher Tube. They guy bought 1 tube and a few rounds.

Then about a month pass, he come back to my store, this time with a M16A1 rifle, and he said he cannot fix the launcher to the rifle (M203 was made with RIS mount and M4 barrel mount, so he cannot fix it on his M16 rifle) He ask me why he can't fix this on his M16, I know at that instant he know nothing about guns. And I told him you will need a P-Rail (Picatinny Rail) for it or have a short barrelled M4. Because the barrel of a M16 is not groved on the outside and is too long to fix it on. To do that you will have to mount it on a hand guard and replace the front grip with the hand guard like this

Obliviously he don't know how to do it, and I said I can do it for him for $500 (I charged him $250 for hand guard, and 250 for workman fee and tax) and I said leave the rifle here and I will bring it to his place when I finish fixing it.

So, I went to his place in about a week, and he have no firearms display or otherwise (And he have no other registered firearms beside the M16 and M203 as did the background check) so I asked him why he needed the M203, it turns out he, like many other, is a big fan of Scarface, a he have build a stand in one of his room and he put the weapon up on the stand with 10 M203 round neatly place in front of the stand and with a Scarface poster placed behind the stand. He is NEVER going to fire that weapon, but for some reason, he is not satisfied for a display model of M203 (would probably cost him a lot less) and he insisted on a real M16 with M203 launcher.

I felt for the guy, and the next week, I headed to his place and gave him a front sight (leaf) and the sling free of charge....

People are quite nuts in the US. Up to a point, they started to collect weapon they will never use because of movies and stuff like that.

 

[Nilgiri]

lol, I didn't say there weren't any gun-nutz in Canada (There are gun nutz everywhere even In Australia, when there are absolute control of firearms) I am saying the gun nuts market is not as big as the US to justify such a transaction, even if automatic weapon are legal.

There are a lot of gun-nuttery you can see In the US, range are allow to have all type of weapon for you to play with, and civilian ownership is quite lax, there are a lot of weapon you can buy in the US legally, from machine gun to grenade launcher (Yes, you can buy a M203 grenade launcher in some states) which is over what normal gun-nuttery people can get. Yet, because of this openness, It keep the pre-ban weapon sale going even after it's absolutely hack to just to get a Automatic MP5 or any Automatic weapon in that sense.

Well have to have the same condition to see what the numbers % are hehe compared to US for the top percentile "all out" gun nuts. Problem is Canada never will allow so we can never know really....but I know plenty of Canadians who go down to the US for gun range tourism (buddy of mine went helicopter hog hunting in Texas earlier this year and spent good money which was well worth it he says) when they can to have some fun etc. I am sure many would love to own in Canada what they get to fire over there if they could.

People are quite nuts in the US. Up to a point, they started to collect weapon they will never use because of movies and stuff like that.

OK I see point you trying to make lol. But its really case of US providing legal buffer space for people to acquire "fanboy" stuff and there is probably some multiplier effect too because of it compared to other societies. But again we kinda need same inherited situation in all other countries to make concrete comparison about how much are totally nutso in firearm acquisition at esp non-functional realm. US 2nd amendment is very unique after all. For a developed country, the US does have a huge population and area as well which helps.....which is why I think Canada if it had its own kind of 2nd amendment or was part of the US (say war of 1812 went that way) would be right up there too given the cultural connections, shared frontier history and whatever inherent % of "its cool to own this no matter the cost" kind of ppl etc.

 

[jhungary]

Well have to have the same condition to see what the numbers % are hehe compared to US for the top percentile "all out" gun nuts. Problem is Canada never will allow so we can never know really....but I know plenty of Canadians who go down to the US for gun range tourism (buddy of mine went helicopter hog hunting in Texas earlier this year and spent good money which was well worth it he says) when they can to have some fun etc. I am sure many would love to own in Canada what they get to fire over there if they could.

Well, all I can say is true gun nuts goes where the gun goes, here in Australia, when guns are not really available. Not like in our sister country, New Zealand, where all the fun were. People in Oz who really love guns will move to New Zealand just because they can own some firearms you cannot have in Oz

I mean, if you are really a 100% gun nuts, it will be like a drug to you. And you simply go where the guns goes, The same is that Aussie will go to Guam or Hawaii for gun tourism (Which is not far from Australia) and since Aussie can't move to the US willy-nilly like they can with New Zealand (Australian all hold New Zealand Permanent Residence and vice versa via trans-Tasman agreement) It's hard to move to the US.

Pretty sure people like that exist, but the thing is that, how many people are actually that nuts and go this far to own a few guns? Not too many I suppose, and yes, I would think if these weapon is available in Canada, people will buy them, but then it will lost the attractiveness overtime, because sometime you only wanted something because you cannot get those. And once they become readily available, then it probably will die down a bit. I mean, even I used to be a gun dealer, I still think to pop 2 grand for a grenade launcher, use it or not, is a total waste of money. Because for me, it's absolutely useless, I cannot shoot it to protect my home, I cannot do competition with it, I don't have a country I want to invade, the best I can do is to go to a range and let off a few round, that it. Let alone Machine Gun and other weapon like that. I mean common sense will prevail at the end, just how long and after how much have been spend is the question here, hehe. It goes quicker if you have a wife and family tho.

OK I see point you trying to make lol. But its really case of US providing legal buffer space for people to acquire "fanboy" stuff and there is probably some multiplier effect too because of it compared to other societies. But again we kinda need same inherited situation in all other countries to make concrete comparison about how much are totally nutso in firearm acquisition at esp non-functional realm. US 2nd amendment is very unique after all. For a developed country, the US does have a huge population and area as well which helps.....which is why I think Canada if it had its own kind of 2nd amendment or was part of the US (say war of 1812 went that way) would be right up there too given the cultural connections, shared frontier history and whatever inherent % of "its cool to own this no matter the cost" kind of ppl etc.

Maybe that example is too extreme, not sure, but most people buy guns are the one that don't know anything about guns. Collector exist but not a lot. Special interest is even more scared. I don't know, maybe if you sold guns like I do for a few year, you will understand or maybe, it's just me, but for me, I think guns is just guns, I mean yes, it may have different shape, but it virtually do the same thing if they are the same calibre. I am not that particular when it come to guns, for me a HK416 is the same as M4 or AUG or SCAR-L or G-36 or Mk 18, because for me it is just a tool, and they fire the same round. If it is up to me, I will choose one of these, but some people would buy all of them because it have different shapes, I think it come down to any collector item, like cars, wines, coins and etc. The value in itself is collecting, and since there are no way for me to know how the gun collector market is in Canada, and there are no way for you to know how the gun collecting market is in US. I guess this question can never be answered.