French LE Want More 9mm Subguns, Solicitation Posted

[Zarvan]

The French National Police and Gendarmerie Nationale law enforcement branches have recently posted a solicitation for a submachine gun chambered for a 9x19mm Parabellum round. The solicitation was placed on Boamp.com, a French government run contract posting website. Specifically (as much as Google Translate will tell), the solicitation is for an entire suite of carbines, specifying 2000 submachine guns, 600 “training” replicas, blank firing adaptors, training devices, and interestingly enough, suppressors.

For those unaware, France has two national law enforcement branches that cover the majority of the country, similar to the FBI but much more extensive. The National Police force falls under the Ministry of the Interior, while the Gendarmerie Nationale falls under the Armed Forces. Both have roughly similar duties but have completely different areas of operation within the country. Combined, the forces are around 250,000 strong for policing a country of 66 million people.

MRX by Fitelite Industries, a 9x19mm pistol caliber carbine which was created in response to backdoor French LE needs for up gunning Law Enforcement with ammunition commonality with a service handgun. This solicitation appears to be the public fruition of that rumor mill. Why the French aren’t pushing for an intermediate or larger rifle round when many of these attacks have utilized 7.62x39mm Kalashnikov pattern rifles, is interesting, especially when there is much to go against the ammunition commonality argument.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/07/12/french-le-want-9mm-subguns-solicitation-posted/

 

[Vergennes]

The French National Police and Gendarmerie Nationale law enforcement branches have recently posted a solicitation for a submachine gun chambered for a 9x19mm Parabellum round. The solicitation was placed on Boamp.com, a French government run contract posting website. Specifically (as much as Google Translate will tell), the solicitation is for an entire suite of carbines, specifying 2000 submachine guns, 600 “training” replicas, blank firing adaptors, training devices, and interestingly enough, suppressors.

Forces are already receiving 5K more HK-UMPs.

And also G36s.

For those unaware, France has two national law enforcement branches that cover the majority of the country, similar to the FBI but much more extensive. The National Police force falls under the Ministry of the Interior, while the Gendarmerie Nationale falls under the Armed Forces. Both have roughly similar duties but have completely different areas of operation within the country. Combined, the forces are around 250,000 strong for policing a country of 66 million people.

~150.000 members of the National Police (civil Police) are policing large urban areas and towns.
~100.000 members of the Gendarmerie (paramilitary) are policing small towns and rural areas.

Both areas of operations of these two forces are totally disproportionate. The Gendarmerie areas of operation is 95% of the territory and 50% of the population. The National Police polices 5% of the territory and the other half of the pop. @Penguin

President Macron has pledged to increase the security forces numbers,by recruiting 7.500 more Police officers and 2.500 more Gendarmes.

 

[Penguin]

Both areas of operations of these two forces are totally disproportionate. The Gendarmerie areas of operation is 95% of the territory and 50% of the population. The National Police polices 5% of the territory and the other half of the pop. @Penguin

Here in Holland, the national police was formed by merging municipal and state police. Still in effect most cops are concentrate in and focussed on urban areas, leavind rural areas much to their own devices. In the old days, state police, will few in number, had real authority (you didn't want to mess with them), contrary to municipal police.

 

[Vergennes]

Here in Holland, the national police was formed by merging municipal and state police. Still in effect most cops are concentrate in and focussed on urban areas, leavind rural areas much to their own devices. In the old days, state police, will few in number, had real authority (you didn't want to mess with them), contrary to municipal police.

What's the role of the Marechaussee nowadays ?
-
Additionally to the Police and Gendarmerie,some towns in France might have their own Municipal Police force,under the authority of the mayor. Their powers are somewhat limited compared to the national agencies,however,they are taking a more and more active role in everydays policing,in cooperation and coordination with the local National Police or Gendarmerie.

It is the mayors that decide of their equipments,they might decide to arm them or not. Due to the recent terror attacks and the continued threat,more mayors are deciding to arm their Municipal agents.

They are generally armed with revolvers.

However,a recent decree allowed Municipal Police forces to be equipped with 9mm pistols.

Sigs for the MP of Saint-Raphaël

Glocks for the MP of Perpignan.

 

[Zarvan]

What's the role of the Marechaussee nowadays ?
-
Additionally to the Police and Gendarmerie,some towns in France might have their own Municipal Police force,under the authority of the mayor. Their powers are somewhat limited compared to the national agencies,however,they are taking a more and more active role in everydays policing,in cooperation and coordination with the local National Police or Gendarmerie.

It is the mayors that decide of their equipments,they might decide to arm them or not. Due to the recent terror attacks and the continued threat,more mayors are deciding to arm their Municipal agents.

They are generally armed with revolvers.

View attachment 411059

However,a recent decree allowed Municipal Police forces to be equipped with 9mm pistols.

Sigs for the MP of Saint-Raphaël

View attachment 411061

Glocks for the MP of Perpignan.

View attachment 411060

For me a Police Force without Guns is a Joke. There is not point of having them. By the way France announced to raise National Guards what happened to that ?

 

[Vergennes]

For me a Police Force without Guns is a Joke. There is not point of having them. By the way France announced to raise National Guards what happened to that ?

The National Guard is continuing its rise. It had 63,000 members last year,including 5K permanently deployed to support the security forces. Its size is expected to rise to 72k this year and 85K in 2018-2019. We should be able to mobilize more than 9K members daily to support the security forces.

The National Guard is made up of reservists from the army,the gendarmerie and somewhat, the police.

 

[Penguin]

What's the role of the Marechaussee nowadays ?

While part of the military, the CKMar has a fixed set of tasks:

• Monitoring / security of Royal palaces, embassies in risk areas, The Dutch Bank and important persons
• Enforcement Aliens legislation including border control and fight against identity / document fraud, trafficking in human beings and human trafficking
• Enforcement of public order and detection of criminal offenses according to the Armed Forces
• Contribution to security sector build-up in mission areas
• Police tasks and security of civilian airports
• Collaboration with and assistance to the regular police and acting as a strategic reserve for the Dutch police

 

[Vergennes]

The French National Police and Gendarmerie Nationale law enforcement branches have recently posted a solicitation for a submachine gun chambered for a 9x19mm Parabellum round. The solicitation was placed on Boamp.com, a French government run contract posting website. Specifically (as much as Google Translate will tell), the solicitation is for an entire suite of carbines, specifying 2000 submachine guns, 600 “training” replicas, blank firing adaptors, training devices, and interestingly enough, suppressors.

For those unaware, France has two national law enforcement branches that cover the majority of the country, similar to the FBI but much more extensive. The National Police force falls under the Ministry of the Interior, while the Gendarmerie Nationale falls under the Armed Forces. Both have roughly similar duties but have completely different areas of operation within the country. Combined, the forces are around 250,000 strong for policing a country of 66 million people.

MRX by Fitelite Industries, a 9x19mm pistol caliber carbine which was created in response to backdoor French LE needs for up gunning Law Enforcement with ammunition commonality with a service handgun. This solicitation appears to be the public fruition of that rumor mill. Why the French aren’t pushing for an intermediate or larger rifle round when many of these attacks have utilized 7.62x39mm Kalashnikov pattern rifles, is interesting, especially when there is much to go against the ammunition commonality argument.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/07/12/french-le-want-9mm-subguns-solicitation-posted/

The National Police has begun to receive the new HK UMP-9.

They are replacing the old Beretta M-12.

@Abingdonboy @Penguin

 

[Nilgiri]

The National Police has begun to receive the new HK UMP-9.

View attachment 432106


They are replacing the old Beretta M-12.

View attachment 432107
View attachment 432105

@Abingdonboy @Penguin

Did anyone in France ever use 9mm sterling?

 

[jhungary]

Did anyone in France ever use 9mm sterling?

Sterling? That's really old.....

On Topic, I don't really trust cop with guns, I mean most of the certification is a joke, I was teaching Police Tactical Course for a friend of mine whom is a sheriff in a small town in Kansas, you don't want to mess with these coppa, they are almost as dangerous as the criminal.

Police here in NSW is almost the same, they only need to go to the range 4 times a year to qualify for their sidearm, let me tell you this, I have a firearms license that require me to shoot 12 times a year for all 3 Firearms I own, and if I own only 1 firearm, I need to shoot 6 times a year. Basically I shoot way more than any coppa walking down the street.

I am quite oppose to the idea of arming normal police officer anything higher than a 9mm or 40 cal pistol, higher than that, there is an inherit risk of injuring bystander, elite police force is okay (like SWAT or TOG)

 

[Nilgiri]

Sterling? That's really old.....

On Topic, I don't really trust cop with guns, I mean most of the certification is a joke, I was teaching Police Tactical Course for a friend of mine whom is a sheriff in a small town in Kansas, you don't want to mess with these coppa, they are almost as dangerous as the criminal.

Police here in NSW is almost the same, they only need to go to the range 4 times a year to qualify for their sidearm, let me tell you this, I have a firearms license that require me to shoot 12 times a year for all 3 Firearms I own, and if I own only 1 firearm, I need to shoot 6 times a year. Basically I shoot way more than any coppa walking down the street.

I am quite oppose to the idea of arming normal police officer anything higher than a 9mm or 40 cal pistol, higher than that, there is an inherit risk of injuring bystander, elite police force is okay (like SWAT or TOG)

Old but gold They were used for so long too in so many places.

They also used long time ago in a galaxy far far away, though the aim of those using them wasn't great

 

[jhungary]

Old but gold They were used for so long too in so many places.

They also used long time ago in a galaxy far far away, though the aim of those using them wasn't great

I think the French uses German stuff, and I don't think there were French Strom Trooper lol.....(Maybe a Storm Trooper Legionnaire)

Anyway, I am a MP5 man, I used to own 1, pre-86 MP-5 Auto....It cost me about 20 grands....

 

[Nilgiri]

I think the French uses German stuff, and I don't think there were French Strom Trooper lol.....(Maybe a Storm Trooper Legionnaire)

Anyway, I am a MP5 man, I used to own 1, pre-86 MP-5 Auto....It cost me about 20 grands....

Thats the issue with MP5, just too darn pricey for civvies like me for what it does (even if it was not prohib in Canada). Would love to have one, but I can't justify the cost.

 

[jhungary]

Thats the issue with MP5, just too darn pricey for civvies like me for what it does (even if it was not prohib in Canada). Would love to have one, but I can't justify the cost.

To Civvies, yes, a Vietnam era M60 Pig will cost you more than 50 grand, but if you get a FFL Title 2 Certificate, you can get a post banned M60E3 for probably $9000-15000 (Compare to 30-40 grand on pre-86 at gun broker) the catch is, you cannot sell or trade it unless to another FFL Title 2 holder.

I guess it quite depends on what kind of people you are, if you are a collector, then I think that's worth the spending, not too understand the Canadian gun culture, but I guess most of you lot are either hunter/producer or recreational/sport shooter, you don't have many gun nuts in Canada. So I don't think anyone will buy a Full Auto MP5 in Canada even if it was not that expensive and is legal.

 

[Nilgiri]

So I don't think anyone will buy a Full Auto MP5 in Canada even if it was not that expensive and is legal.

Haha, there are more than you think. Alberta with MarStar etc...would be a pretty big hub if there was cheaper + quality + full auto + legal (tick all boxes). There is a "canadian gun nutz" online community I used to post quite frequently and found lots of interesting resources and debates etc.

Biggest thing here in Canada is of course legally you cannot own a firearm for self protection purpose (when you get the PAL, sporting, hunting etc are the only valid reasons you can put in the paperwork)...and there is no 2nd amendment, ownership is basically privilege, not a right. So we are definitely hamstrung from get go compared to US civilians, that is very true.

But there is definite interest and "gun-nuttery" that would provide decent demand I think if things changed in the legal/supply fronts....mostly in Alberta and then the Canadian rural areas and boonies. I know this because great buddy of mine (and house mate for number of years) is probably top 1% percentile of gun nuts worldwide heh and was instrumental in getting me more interested/active on the topic (back in university) in first place given his huge collection (which runs in his immediate family, I think in total they own well over 100 among 3 people now). He personally told me many times he would love to own MP5 (he's a big HK nut in general, it was his SL-8 i.e semi auto G36 that convinced me to get one too).

It basically depends where you go in Canada. Of course big cities generally have the biggest anti-gun people/zones/politics/attitudes but even there it depends. Once you leave the cities to suburbs and then towns/village/farms you get a good decent level of gun loving folk....many of whom I am sure wouldn't say no to having a MP-5 or two if they were cheaper and legal