France starts ban on full-face veil

[divya]

if we were hypocrites saudis werent allowing hindus in there lands in the first place, how many hindus go to temples and christians go to church anyway, muslims take religion very seriously, so this religious card must have not been played to muslims anyway

at least 70% of the hindus you will find in temples on tuesdays and fridays for your information. if not everyone at least one from each family do attend prayers on tuesday. elders in almost all families do not eat without having bath and then prayers....

---------- Post added at 09:20 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:19 AM ----------

resorting to low level devate arnt you???

what low level it was a fatwa from saudi arabia... wasnt it?

 

[fallstuff]

Allow practise of other religons and places of worship in saudi arabia and places like that then talk about hypocrisy of others.

i guess this is what max belive in and when others start doing same they start crying freedom

What that has to do with the Law in France ? It was not passed based on the Laws in Saudi Arabia. I doubt anywhere in that act it states, "This Act may be repealed or modified provided certain acts are permitted in Saudi Arabia."

 

[divya]

What that has to do with the Law in France ? It was not passed based on the Laws in Saudi Arabia. I doubt anywhere in that act it states, "This Act may be repealed or modified provided certain acts are permitted in Saudi Arabia."

what i meant was how can one point fingers at someone else when one himself is in dirt till neck....

 

[Bhushan]

Banning the Burka

It is bound to come up as an issue now and in the future in western countries – the wearing of burkas and hijabs. There has been a call from Australian retailers for a ban on the wearing of the full-faced burka for the practical reason that it is harder to identify individual faces when thefts take place.

Just think of it – it is surely not possible for a woman wearing a burka to have a driver’s licence photo with her face covered. Is this an insult Mr Trad? And she would have to show that photo to any policeman who asked for it, if her happened to stop her car on the road, as happens with other ordinary citizens. Is that now to be forbidden too – different rules for Muslim women? And she would have to show her face on a passport photo – for surely the Australian Passport office has not reached such depths of lunacy yet, as to include faces of covered women in the section for such photos? So where is the consistency – insistence of the face shown in some situations, and not in others?

If it is a question of veils for nuns, or if Muslim women want to wear a hijab, I would let that pass, but not the burka, the wearing of which is an action which is an affront to the western respect for women [the principle is there and it is enacted in practice, even if not always so]. The burka states principles antithetical to the heart of western values – that women and men are equal in dignity [showing the face does not impede this in any way] and that as human being we have free will and can choose to behave with decency and are not subject to fits of uncontrollable behaviour, just because a face is shown. These principles of human dignity and free will have long been a part of western thinking and should not be discarded lightly, just because some group has a hissy fit about dressing up.. Muslim migrants should adapt to the west, whose hospitality they enjoy [welfare, public housing, free public schooling, healthcare etc etc] and some basic human decency in face to face gestures and communication should be insisted upon.

Accept the rules of the country you are living in or just get back to your country,nobody is stopping you.

 

[Black Widow]

Banning the Burka

It is bound to come up as an issue now and in the future in western countries – the wearing of burkas and hijabs. There has been a call from Australian retailers for a ban on the wearing of the full-faced burka for the practical reason that it is harder to identify individual faces when thefts take place.

Just think of it – it is surely not possible for a woman wearing a burka to have a driver’s licence photo with her face covered. Is this an insult Mr Trad? And she would have to show that photo to any policeman who asked for it, if her happened to stop her car on the road, as happens with other ordinary citizens. Is that now to be forbidden too – different rules for Muslim women? And she would have to show her face on a passport photo – for surely the Australian Passport office has not reached such depths of lunacy yet, as to include faces of covered women in the section for such photos? So where is the consistency – insistence of the face shown in some situations, and not in others?

If it is a question of veils for nuns, or if Muslim women want to wear a hijab, I would let that pass, but not the burka, the wearing of which is an action which is an affront to the western respect for women [the principle is there and it is enacted in practice, even if not always so]. The burka states principles antithetical to the heart of western values – that women and men are equal in dignity [showing the face does not impede this in any way] and that as human being we have free will and can choose to behave with decency and are not subject to fits of uncontrollable behaviour, just because a face is shown. These principles of human dignity and free will have long been a part of western thinking and should not be discarded lightly, just because some group has a hissy fit about dressing up.. Muslim migrants should adapt to the west, whose hospitality they enjoy [welfare, public housing, free public schooling, healthcare etc etc] and some basic human decency in face to face gestures and communication should be insisted upon.

Accept the rules of the country you are living in or just get back to your country,nobody is stopping you.

good one...

 

[fallstuff]

what i meant was how can one point fingers at someone else when one himself is in dirt till neck....

Who is the one himself ?

Valid discussions about the Law is,


1) Does it contradict French constitution ?

2) What if a women covering her face is praying at a mosque ? (Under French Law, a mosque is a public place)

3) Police agent provocateurs use mask or scarf to cover their faces. ( it becomes illegal)

4) What happens when protesters wear masks ?( wto protests)

5) Wives of the Arab kings and the Ministers in Burqa ? ( cops going to haul Mrs. of Saudi kings or Ministers to jail )

6) A Law may supposedly help a 1000 women, but impedes on the right of every French individual.

 

[jayron]

Who is the one himself ?

Valid discussions about the Law is,


1) Does it contradict French constitution ?

2) What if a women covering her face is praying at a mosque ? (Under French Law, a mosque is a public place)

3) Police agent provocateurs use mask or scarf to cover their faces. ( it becomes illegal)

4) What happens when protesters wear masks ?( wto protests)

5) Wives of the Arab kings and the Ministers in Burqa ? ( cops going to haul Mrs. of Saudi kings or Ministers to jail )

6) A Law may supposedly help a 1000 women, but impedes on the right of every French individual.

Lets talk about what you care. Diplomats will deal with an Arab King's wife.
The is directed against the Islamic veil. You don't have to think of weird situations to prove your logic.

 

[fallstuff]

Article 9 – Freedom of thought, conscience and religion

1. Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, and to manifest his religion or belief, in worship, teaching, practice and observance.

2. Freedom to manifest one's religion or beliefs shall be subject only to such limitations as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society in the interests of public safety, for the protection of public order, health or morals, or for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others.

Article 9 of the European Convention on Human Rights - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[prototype]

Who is the one himself ?

Valid discussions about the Law is,


1) Does it contradict French constitution ?

I think now this is itself a part of French constitution.

2) What if a women covering her face is praying at a mosque ? (Under French Law, a mosque is a public place)

They already stated that,no confinement in case of religious places,vehicles and private properties.

3) Police agent provocateurs use mask or scarf to cover their faces. ( it becomes illegal)

Agent provocateur are controlled by govt themselves,so according to u even FORFUSCO cannot wear mask,clearly u should be able to distinguish the following[/QUOTE]

4) What happens when protesters wear masks ?( wto protests)

The law is enforced itself to dissuade from such acts.

5) Wives of the Arab kings and the Ministers in Burqa ? ( cops going to haul Mrs. of Saudi kings or Ministers to jail )

Hmmm,so is this law also applicable to foreign dignitaries,or only french citizens?

6) A Law may supposedly help a 1000 women, but impedes on the right of every French individual.

How?

 

[fallstuff]

Lets talk about what you care. Diplomats will deal with an Arab King's wife.
The is directed against the Islamic veil. You don't have to think of weird situations to prove your logic.

What do you mean by what I care ?

The Law does not talk about religion. Burqa has nothing to do with Islam. The issue is individual rights.

There is nothing wired about your rights. If you don't understand these issues, educate yourself.

 

[tallboy123]

Well,France has done a awesome job by this law,Muslim women in France can live without covering their face and can wear colorful dress rather than that same old black dress everywhere they go.. and can live like other women and cannot be supressed..

French muslim women welcome to Colorful world and 21st century...

So if one wants to see Muslim women in color full dress,pack ur bags to France.....

 

[Markus]

France has done the right thing.

Muslims should stop playing the minority card and accept the law of the land where they are living.

 

[T-Rex]

No one is saying france has become saudi arabia they have not yet banned other religons from france. when you guys are hypocrite why accuse others for the same behaviour....

double standards....

There are thousands of indian Hindus working in Saudi Arabia, do they not practice Hinduism or have they all converted to Islam for the sake of their jobs? Your hypocrisy knows no bound!

 

[jayron]

What do you mean by what I care ?

The Law does not talk about religion. Burqa has nothing to do with Islam. The issue is individual rights.

There is nothing wired about your rights. If you don't understand these issues, educate yourself.

Hooligans cover their faces during protests to safeguard themselves from law. By comparing them to burqa wearing women, you are not justifying burqua.

 

[prototype]

There are thousands of indian Hindus working in Saudi Arabia, do they not practice Hinduism or have they all converted to Islam for the sake of their jobs? Your hypocrisy knows no bound!

As a matter of policy, the Government guarantees and protects the right to private worship for all, including non-Muslims who gather in homes for religious practice; however, this right is not always respected in practice and is not defined in law. Moreover, the public practice of non-Muslim religions is prohibited.

I think this is all what she meant.