France sees huge rise in number of times police resort to using their guns

[Vergennes]

This is PDF so we can be politically incorrect. The real reason why US has such high number of shooting is the 10% Africans you have in your country. The fact is your average Afro is significantly larger/stronger then the median. This means police rely more on guns to counter the greater danger of physical harm.

Few weeks ago my brother who is a copper got a call at 4am of a Black man trying to break through the rear door of a house with a crow bar. The owner of the house had made a 999 call as she was looking down from her bedroom window. As my brother and his partner raced to the address he told me both were worried. As they parked the car and walked toward the rear garden he told me the fear struck every step they moved forward. A big Black guy with crow bar in the dark and cornered could end badly. My brother partner took out his taser and my brother readied his truncheon as they cornered the house. Thankfully the intruder had left probably knowing police was on the way.

Had this event unfolded in US it might have ended with guns being used.

So how is the job going for your brother ?

 

[Vergennes]

Meanwhile in Germany ;

German police shot dead 14 people in 2017, more than in previous years

https://www.thelocal.de/20180629/german-police-shot-dead-14-people-in-2017

 

[GiannKall]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...n-nantes-after-man-shot-dead?CMP=share_btn_tw

Another one

 

[jhungary]

I know but it is related to.. police use of their service weapons..when you go looking for criminals (and I do not expect you to know this police work).. you hold a meeting and discuss those criminals files..than plan your work according to the danger level..When you know that the guy you are after is armed and dangerous.. you are already thinking of using your gun..It can also be after a spontaneous call that "someone" is stabbing people on a street , or that gun shots were fired in some place..

What you are referring to is Threat Assessment.

Police in North America in majority uses de-escalation policing. Which mean you start with one level higher with the current threat level, then you move down when you see fits.

So if a copper approach a man with a knife, he/she would drawn his/her service weapon to response to the situation. If the call come the suspect is armed and dangerous, the police officer would have approach the suspect with high power weaponry (Shotgun or Assault rifle). And as they defuse the situation, the police officer would lower the threat response.

In Europe, the police are trained with Escalation Policing, which mean the police officer would approach a suspect with the minimum threat threshold, until he/she see the reason to raise it. Which mean when a police approach a man holding a knife, the police could approach with either baton or taser (the lowest form other than bare hand) and if the threat increase, he/she would draw his/her service weapon. Or other weapon available to them.

However, not every case is the same, and not every police department is the same, its depending on both situation and location.

@Kaptaan

Not all black guys are big and scary some small white, latino and blacks can be more dangerous.. that is just a perception.. ask your brother what he thinks if that guy was 6'4 250lb white man..doing the same thing!?

I think the keyword here is he is holding a crowbar, if a 6'4 250 pound man charge me with a crowbar, I will shoot him regardless if he is black, white, or asian.

 

[The SC]

What you are referring to is Threat Assessment.

Police in North America in majority uses de-escalation policing. Which mean you start with one level higher with the current threat level, then you move down when you see fits.

So if a copper approach a man with a knife, he/she would drawn his/her service weapon to response to the situation. If the call come the suspect is armed and dangerous, the police officer would have approach the suspect with high power weaponry (Shotgun or Assault rifle). And as they defuse the situation, the police officer would lower the threat response.

In Europe, the police are trained with Escalation Policing, which mean the police officer would approach a suspect with the minimum threat threshold, until he/she see the reason to raise it. Which mean when a police approach a man holding a knife, the police could approach with either baton or taser (the lowest form other than bare hand) and if the threat increase, he/she would draw his/her service weapon. Or other weapon available to them.

However, not every case is the same, and not every police department is the same, its depending on both situation and location.



I think the keyword here is he is holding a crowbar, if a 6'4 250 pound man charge me with a crowbar, I will shoot him regardless if he is black, white, or asian.

That is true somehow abou NA police.. but they will first surround the armed person, and ask him ti get rid of his weapon..If he threatens them or start walking towards them .. he is shot at.. there are no leg shots, it is execution!

 

[jhungary]

That is true somehow abou NA police.. but they will first surround the armed person, and ask him ti get rid of his weapon..If he threatens them or start walking towards them .. he is shot at.. there are no leg shots, it is execution!

It's hard for a non-trained shooter (Yes, police ARE non-trained shooter) to pull a leg shot, even I am a trained shooter, if you ask me to do a leg shot in that circumstance, when my adrenaline is pumping, I don't think I can do it too.

Police around the world trained with shooting a 2 or 3 shot close grouping to the center mass. That is because it is the easier to pull out for an officer who may be go to a range 6 times every year. Not too many would do anything other than that, because if you try to pull a leg shot and you miss? You are lucky if you did not hit anyone and if you did? That is a giant lawsuit.

 

[The SC]

It's hard for a non-trained shooter (Yes, police ARE non-trained shooter) to pull a leg shot, even I am a trained shooter, if you ask me to do a leg shot in that circumstance, when my adrenaline is pumping, I don't think I can do it too.

Police around the world trained with shooting a 2 or 3 shot close grouping to the center mass. That is because it is the easier to pull out for an officer who may be go to a range 6 times every year. Not too many would do anything other than that, because if you try to pull a leg shot and you miss? You are lucky if you did not hit anyone and if you did? That is a giant lawsuit.

That might be true..since all those practice targets have no legs, just the top of the body..SWAT teams are well trained on shooting..as far as I know Police have some weekly shooting practices here..It is difficult to assess, some people have died from police teasers too!? I personally think that shooting at the legs is more human than executing just like that.. unless it is a murderer you are shooting at!..From 30 ft, I won't miss a leg my friend and I am not that much trained on fire arms..but I agree that it is relative according to the situation..Police should be trained to be cool minded in all situations and with high alertness..I have studied those escalation modes they are two ways.. down and up if the first does not work..

 

[jhungary]

That might be true..since all those practice targets have no legs, just the top of the body..SWAT teams are well trained on shooting..as far as I know Police have some weekly shooting practices here..It is difficult to assess, some people have died from police teasers too!? I personally think that shooting at the legs is more human than executing just like that.. unless it is a murderer you are shooting at!..From 30 ft, I won't miss a leg my friend and I am not that much trained on fire arms..but I agree that it is relative according to the situation..Police should be trained to be cool minded in all situations and with high alertness..I have studied those escalation modes they are two ways.. down and up if the first does not work..

Well, depends on the situation.

Many people said they can shoot their arms or legs, but this is one thing we are here and talk about it, or exchange shooting score when your own life is not in any kind of danger. There is another matter altogether when you are under stress and you have 3 second to decide what you are going to do. Most people will retorted back to their training, which is to shoot a close grouping to the centre mass, which is why the Police were issued with Hollow Point to begin with. Which is make sure a suspect goes down if they were shot at.

I was military trained, I have been to Ranger School, and I have been taught how to deal with sticky situation, but even for me, I will resort to my training when I am stressed, which is a double tap (2 in the chest and 1 in the head), which is probably why I can never be a police officer.

Problem is front line policing is very different than people think, I assume you have some degree of knowledge about Policing, however, most on the job police officer did not actually need to do these studies themselves, most of them are giving 6 to 10 weeks training and put on a 1 year probation. Policing was taught in a syllabus but without in depth discussion from the cadet, more like a training officer told you what to do, and you do it.

In Australia (I am currently working with the NSW Police) police officer did not study the core of policing, they were taught what to do in some situation and have some roleplay, and that's it, they are more focus on human-human interaction, than how to enforce law.

About weapon training, it also depend on each states or country, firearms training vary from department to department, some require a lot of firearm training, some require basic safety training. I would say 80% of police officer worldwide is less active than sport shooter in that country. SWAT is no different, some SWAT focus on Tactical stuff, some SWAT focus on Weaponry, some do both, but in the end, the standard of Police officer worldwide vary.

On the other hand, Police in the US uses heavy handed tactics have their reason, because it is really dangerous to enforce law in the US. Then Canada or Australia. Here you don't need to be in ready position if you pull over someone, but in the US, you are taught to have your dominant hand on the holster at all time, because the driver may shoot at you without any notice.