France Extends Help to Expedite 'Maitri'

[Chakram Indian]

Infact Astra was tested ground to Air mode prior to testing in A to A mode. It had successfully destroyed the target.

of course i said it was part of the tests

but modifications with boosters etc are being planned to make it S2A missile system

Akash is a potent but old system becoming obsolete slowly.

pl explain in detail

We need a light weight high speed seeker based missile to replace AKASH. Any missile in the line of MRSAM LRSAM shall do.

Aakash mk 2/3 with SARS is in the works

 

[HariPrasad]

pl explain in detail

Akash weighs over 700 kg with a range of 30 KM. LRSAm is a 230 KG missile with 70 KM range and a very high operating profile. SR SAM should weigh around 100 KG with a range just lesser than that of Akash. SRSAM should be a very quick reaction missile with a very high degree of maneuver in initial flight where Akash is unfit. We need a light weight high speed missile with a high maneuver to fit in this role.

Aakash mk 2/3 with SARS is in the works

But it will be heavy and not very quick reaction so unfit for short range role. May be very good in Medium range role.

 

[Chakram Indian]

Akash weighs over 700 kg with a range of 30 KM. LRSAm is a 230 KG missile with 70 KM range and a very high operating profile. SR SAM should weigh around 100 KG with a range just lesser than that of Akash. SRSAM should be a very quick reaction missile with a very high degree of maneuver in initial flight where Akash is unfit. We need a light weight high speed missile with a high maneuver to fit in this role.




But it will be heavy and not very quick reaction so unfit for short range role. May be very good in Medium range role.

for that QRSAM a new missile is being developed

@HariPrasad

even spyder is python and derby converted from Air to air pythons and derby missiles to surface to Air missiles

even maitri was to be our learnings from trishul and MICA and some other missiles stages combinations

so pl recheck your arguments about why Aastra cant be converted into surface to air mode for all ranges ?


aastra - weight 154 kg range 80 - 110 km

for SRSAM - for ranges upto 25 km the weight can be reduced to around 90-100 kgs

+ another QRSAM is in develoment and another LLRSAM with ranges of more than 250+ also under development

 

[HariPrasad]

even spyder is python and derby converted from Air to air pythons and derby missiles to surface to Air missiles

Exactly.

even maitri was to be our learnings from trishul and MICA and some other missiles stages combinations

You Missed LRSAM.

aastra - weight 154 kg range 80 - 110 km

It is Astra MK2 at a height of 10 KM. MK1 hit a target 65 KM away (simulated) at 6.5 KM above. At ground level the range will be low but still it will be an excess of 60 KM. So it doesn't qualify for SRSAM. The derivative May be used as the medium range missile. SRSAM should be less that 100 KG and a range of 20 KM.

 

[Chakram Indian]

Exactly..

earlier post you mentioned that a2a cant be converted to s2a .

It is Astra MK2 at a height of 10 KM. MK1 hit a target 65 KM away (simulated) at 6.5 KM above. At ground level the range will be low but still it will be an excess of 60 KM. So it doesn't qualify for SRSAM. The derivative May be used as the medium range missile. SRSAM should be less that 100 KG and a range of 20 KM.

i dont know why you are fixated on range -

what is believe is the future battlefield

we are talking about

5 layered air defence shield

1. ABM shield
2/3/4. Cruise missiles, anti Air defence shield - LRSAM, MRSAM, SRSAM these will include QRSAM too and
5 QRVSRSAM - type of our own Iron Dome fixed for Siachin/LOC/ BorderPosts/moving Bubble with armour artillary and infantry

now

ABM is ok

but when we come to LRSAM (350+Km to 80km)
then MRSAM (30Km to 80Km)
and SRSAM and QRSAM - why is say it will be bit heavier and longer range is the following

i think and believe that future SRSAM/QRSAM

will not be lock on before launch

i believe it will be canister launched as soon as a few targets penetrate the LRSAM shield and move into mRSAm zone based on pass through a few SRSAMS/QRSAMS will be launched to immmideately target the pass through of MRSAM

i.e.

if 30 inbound targets pass through LRSAM zone and enter MRSAM zone than while MRSAM engage them

a few based on statastical nos say ther is chance of 8 passing through MRSAM zone then while MRSAM engage these 30

6 SRSAMs will be launched with lock on after launch mode and then they will move ingeneral direction of targets and as soon as targets pass through MRSAM zone these will be alloted to loitering SRSAM

so for these loitering time the SRSAMs will have higher range than current SRSAMS and will be bit heavier

 

[rockstarIN]

for that QRSAM a new missile is being developed

@HariPrasad

even spyder is python and derby converted from Air to air pythons and derby missiles to surface to Air missiles

even maitri was to be our learnings from trishul and MICA and some other missiles stages combinations

so pl recheck your arguments about why Aastra cant be converted into surface to air mode for all ranges ?


aastra - weight 154 kg range 80 - 110 km

for SRSAM - for ranges upto 25 km the weight can be reduced to around 90-100 kgs

+ another QRSAM is in develoment and another LLRSAM with ranges of more than 250+ also under development

You can't take Astra range of 100 as a benchmark, that 100 km will be at higher attitude whereas it may have around 20-25 kms range at lower altitudes.

 

[temp1994]

I propose Miniature version of Astra for SRSAM role weighing less than 100 K G and having a range of 15 to 20 KM.

Astra would have problem as it is A-to-A missile. An A-to-A missile does not have to use fuel to gain Potential energy ( height ). It is provided by Aircraft, but a SAM has to expend energy to gain altitude. This makes an A-to-A missile unfit for SAM operations.

 

[HariPrasad]

Astra would have problem as it is A-to-A missile. An A-to-A missile does not have to use fuel to gain Potential energy ( height ). It is provided by Aircraft, but a SAM has to expend energy to gain altitude. This makes an A-to-A missile unfit for SAM operations.

Using variant of A to A missile in G to A role with some modification is very common. There are many examples. Please read prior post wherein such examples are quoted.

earlier post you mentioned that a2a cant be converted to s2a .

No pl show me the post I will clarify. infact I argued that Astra was tested from ground to air against the Arial target in its initial tests. Look,

I propose Miniature version of Astra for SRSAM role weighing less than 100 K G and having a range of 15 to 20 KM. (My second or third post)

Source: France Extends Help to Expedite 'Maitri'

You can't take Astra range of 100 as a benchmark, that 100 km will be at higher attitude whereas it may have around 20-25 kms range at lower altitudes.

No it will be 40 to 50 Km at least.

 

[rockstarIN]

Using variant of A to A missile in G to A role with some modification is very common. There are many examples. Please read prior post wherein such examples are quoted.




No pl show me the post I will clarify. infact I argued that Astra was tested from ground to air against the Arial target in its initial tests. Look,

I propose Miniature version of Astra for SRSAM role weighing less than 100 K G and having a range of 15 to 20 KM. (My second or third post)

Source: France Extends Help to Expedite 'Maitri'




No it will be 40 to 50 Km at least.

ARMRAAM & R-77 is around the same range, since Astra also in the same category, its range too will be the same.

 

[HariPrasad]

ARMRAAM & R-77 is around the same range, since Astra also in the same category, its range too will be the same.

Astra MK 1 was termed as 44 KM range missile at low altitude at 6.5 KM it hit the target in its first test. Lighter MK2 is coming with over a hundred KM Range. I believ that it should have the range as stated by me. WIKI states the ARMRAAM range as 55 to 75 KM i.e as much as astra MK1. Mk2 will have at least 2/3rd higher range. SO at ground level it should atleast be 40 KM above. After all these are the guises.

 

[sancho]

I hope that you know that we started that highly ambitious program 3 decade ago. We have moved a lot since then. We have successfully tested Astra in ground to Air mode. We are partner in sophisticated missile like MR AND LRSAM. Looking all the subsequent development, SRSAM seems very much within our technological reach. We are open to incorporate some foreign system to expedite the program.

Astra has no A2G mode, it just was test launched in ground test for basic certifications. That was followed by integration tests to the Su 30 and then the recent test launches from them, which still were unguided tests. It has still a long way to go to prove it's own development aims, but it's simply different from what a QR-SAM should be, starting with different design, different propulsion or featurs like canards. So claiming we can do it on our own now, although we hardly have achived something on our own so far (Astra is not fully developed and is yet to prove it's development aims, just as Sudarshan, NAG, let alone Nirbhay...) is simply the same unrealistic point of view that led to the Trishul failure. So how about getting the currently running development finished and inducted, before we want to modify them to something completely different?

 

[HariPrasad]

Astra has no A2G mode, it just was test launched in ground test for basic certifications. That was followed by integration tests to the Su 30 and then the recent test launches from them, which still were unguided tests. It has still a long way to go to prove it's own development aims, but it's simply different from what a QR-SAM should be, starting with different design, different propulsion or featurs like canards. So claiming we can do it on our own now, although we hardly have achived something on our own so far (Astra is not fully developed and is yet to prove it's development aims, just as Sudarshan, NAG, let alone Nirbhay...) is simply the same unrealistic point of view that led to the Trishul failure. So how about getting the currently running development finished and inducted, before we want to modify them to something completely different?

Variant of A to A missile in G to A mode is very common. No reason why we can not repeat that. Ok we could make trishul operational but we could make other missile to reach to their logical end. The rest of the missiles were not less technologically challenging. We have much better knowledge and other building blocks now. We can do that on our own and w can do much faster with the help of country like France or Israel. SR SAM is already in making with DRDO.

 

[sancho]

Variant of A to A missile in G to A mode is very common.

Only because it can be done, doesn't mean that the ground test were in a so called A2G mode. Just as a BVR missile can't be automatically re-designed into a WVR missile, since both have different design and development aims.

we can do much faster with the help of country like France or Israel.

That's what Maitri SAM is about! We are develoing a SAM with the help of France and based on their MICA VL, just as we developed Brahmos with Russian help and based on their Yakhont missile, or how we develop Barak 8 with Israel...

 

[HariPrasad]

Only because it can be done, doesn't mean that the ground test were in a so called A2G mode. Just as a BVR missile can't be automatically re-designed into a WVR missile, since both have different design and development aims.

May be you may have to carry out some change but variants will come very fast and save a lot of time and effort and new development of technology totally from scratch.

 

[sancho]

May be you may have to carry out some change

As said, 2 different missiles with 2 different set of requirements. Barak 8 development actually would be better to develop a varient for the short range, since it already offers more commonality, like land and naval launchers, TVC to increase manuverability.