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France asks Germany to allow unlimited exports of warplanes in conflict-hit countries

Vergennes

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France has threatened to cancel a Franco-German project to develop a next-generation fighter jet unless Germany agrees to allow unlimited exports of the warplanes, even to countries involved in conflicts, Der Spiegel magazine reported on Friday.

The German magazine, citing a confidential cable sent by the German ambassador in France, said French officials made their position clear during a meeting in Paris on Sept. 21.

The official could not be reached for comment at the German Defence Ministry, which is overseeing the project, nor were any available at France's Defence Ministry and the French presidency.

The project was first announced by German Chancellor Angela Merkel and French President Emmanuel Macron in July 2017, along with plans to develop a new tank.

During the September meeting, Claire Landais, France's general secretary for defence and national security, said unlimited exports were "a central part of the financing of the overall project" and France viewed "long-term guarantees for future exports of the equipment as essential," Spiegel said.

"Only when such guarantees have been made can the political green light be given for billions of euros in investments", the notes quoted Landais as saying.

Last week, Airbus defence chief Dirk Hoke warned France against demanding too big of a share of the programme, saying it could doom its chances for approval by the German parliament.

Airbus had agreed to let its rival, France's Dassault Aviation, take the lead on developing a new combat aircraft, but that did not mean France would run the overall project, which will also include unmanned aircraft and other weapons, Hoke told French website La Tribune.

Dassault Aviation and Airbus, the respective industrial partners for France and Germany, could not immediately be reached for comment.

The Spiegel report and Hoke's comments laid bare continued tensions over the ambitious undertaking by two countries with very different views on arms exports.

German Chancellor Angela Merkel's government has halted arms deliveries to Saudi Arabia in protest over the murder of Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi inside the Saudi consulate in Istanbul on Oct. 2, a killing she has called a "monstrosity".

France's reaction to the Khashoggi case has been guarded to date as Paris tries to retain its sway with Riyadh and protect commercial relations spanning energy, finance and weaponry.

French President Emmanuel Macron said on Friday that calls by several EU countries including Germany to suspend arms sales to Saudi Arabia since Khashoggi's killing smacked of populist "demagoguery".

Airbus Chief Executive Tom Enders was critical of Germany's stance in remarks to Der Spiegel. "Berlin cannot constantly call for European cooperation, but then back out when it gets to be concrete," he said.

Germany, he added, was signalling to Paris that it did not consider French foreign and security policy to be responsible.

https://www.devdiscourse.com/Articl...xports-of-warplanes-in-conflict-hit-countries
 
ha ha ha!!!!! it was always going to happen!!

The Germans and the French deserve each other in all their glory...
 
germans are stupids weapons used to.killing and destruction if there is no war whom need weapons and why? if they are so saint stop producing weapons at all
 
France is being irresponsible here.
By having the Germans on board they can commit to producing twice as many planes for the partner countries than if they went alone. This should help massively with the development costs and lower per unit production cost.
With ample funding coming from both France and Germany, the finished product will be so good that plenty of orders will come in from Europe and some other responsible nations that there would be little need to sell to countries in conflict.
 
hitler-in-paris.jpg

Führer missbilligt
:cheers:
 

Today France is much more powerful than Germany and the reverse can easily happen if the push comes to shove.

French soldiers are battle-hardened through combat operations in some of the harshest terrains in African former colonies while German soldiers are deployed only in non-combat capacity.

The French military would chew Germany of today raw if it came to a war between them.

France just chooses to remain peaceful.

German Army is no longer the Wehrmacht and KSK is not the Waffen SS.

Big difference.
 
Today France is much more powerful than Germany and the reverse can easily happen if the push comes to shove.

French soldiers are battle-hardened through combat operations in some of the harshest terrains in African former colonies while German soldiers are deployed only in non-combat capacity.

The French military would chew Germany of today raw if it came to a war between them.

France just chooses to remain peaceful.

German Army is no longer the Wehrmacht and KSK is not the Waffen SS.

Big difference.
Kisi baat ko light mooded bhi ley lia karo bhai :rolleyes:
 
Today France is much more powerful than Germany and the reverse can easily happen if the push comes to shove.

French soldiers are battle-hardened through combat operations in some of the harshest terrains in African former colonies while German soldiers are deployed only in non-combat capacity.

The French military would chew Germany of today raw if it came to a war between them.

France just chooses to remain peaceful.

German Army is no longer the Wehrmacht and KSK is not the Waffen SS.

Big difference.
Not entirely true. The difference would have to be considerable in the capabilities of both militaries...which it's not.

Both are well equipped armies and though France has the most current training/battle hardened and battle ready forces of the two...Germany has an edge in terms of a bigger economy and more industrial might compared to the French.
 
Today France is much more powerful than Germany and the reverse can easily happen if the push comes to shove.

French soldiers are battle-hardened through combat operations in some of the harshest terrains in African former colonies while German soldiers are deployed only in non-combat capacity.

The French military would chew Germany of today raw if it came to a war between them.

France just chooses to remain peaceful.

German Army is no longer the Wehrmacht and KSK is not the Waffen SS.

Big difference.

The French army is untested force. fighting a bunch of african militiamen does not make you battle hardened
it is still better than german military

if german decides to rearm it will take a couple of generations to recreate the Wehrmacht and Waffen SS
 
The French army is untested force. fighting a bunch of african militiamen does not make you battle hardened
it is still better than german military

if german decides to rearm it will take a couple of generations to recreate the Wehrmacht and Waffen SS

French armed forces have participated in something like 400 operations since the end of the Algerian war,small scale or large scale,in africa,middle east,asia.... it doesn't need to prove you it's "battle hardened". First,what's your definition of "battle hardened" ? Any exemple of "battle hardened" force ?

Why would Germany "rearm" ? Why and/or against what/who ? As for people thinking about a fight between Germany or France,there's more chance of Donald Trump becoming North Korea's suprem leader than a conflict between the two.
 
French armed forces have participated in something like 400 operations since the end of the Algerian war,small scale or large scale,in africa,middle east,asia.... it doesn't need to prove you it's "battle hardened". First,what's your definition of "battle hardened" ? Any exemple of "battle hardened" force ?

Why would Germany "rearm" ? Why and/or against what/who ? As for people thinking about a fight between Germany or France,there's more chance of Donald Trump becoming North Korea's suprem leader than a conflict between the two.

Its thinking like this that got France bent over faster then you could say 'Whoopsadoodle' last time

As George Bush once said

'Fool me once shame on you, Fool me twice, err You cant fooled again'
 
France is being irresponsible here.
By having the Germans on board they can commit to producing twice as many planes for the partner countries than if they went alone. This should help massively with the development costs and lower per unit production cost.
With ample funding coming from both France and Germany, the finished product will be so good that plenty of orders will come in from Europe and some other responsible nations that there would be little need to sell to countries in conflict.

I don't think so. European countries are purchasing F35 fighter jets already.
https://www.defensenews.com/air/2018/10/25/f-35-officially-wins-belgian-fighter-contest/

France is right in this case. They need non-European countries to buy this jet otherwise it doesn't make sense to start this project.
 
Its thinking like this that got France bent over faster then you could say 'Whoopsadoodle' last time

As George Bush once said

'Fool me once shame on you, Fool me twice, err You cant fooled again'

We are no more in the 1930's,France and Germany have built so much in common over the last decades,became vital partners,created one of the most powerful union of this planet (Not 100% perfect,but still) and much more,there's no way both countries will remake errors from the past. "If if if if".

Maybe India and Pakistan should probably take note.
 
French armed forces have participated in something like 400 operations since the end of the Algerian war,small scale or large scale,in africa,middle east,asia.... it doesn't need to prove you it's "battle hardened". First,what's your definition of "battle hardened" ? Any exemple of "battle hardened" force ?

Why would Germany "rearm" ? Why and/or against what/who ? As for people thinking about a fight between Germany or
France,there's more chance of Donald Trump becoming North Korea's suprem leader than a conflict between the two.

The french military is potent one. i would not call it battle hardened

france fought two losing wars - one in Vietnam and one in Algeria. I have troubles imagining France winning against a decent opponent. I reserve the word battle hardened for fights against a credible opponent. If the French army had beaten Saddam army in Kuwait one on one I would consider such an army battle hardened. you can list the 400 operations - most of them are part of multi-national force. Or they are against some tribal chief in Africa

with friends like france germany has no need for rearm. the only real threat to germany is Russia which is a nuclear one.
 
The french military is potent one. i would not call it battle hardened

france fought two losing wars - one in Vietnam and one in Algeria. I have troubles imagining France winning against a decent opponent. I reserve the word battle hardened for fights against a credible opponent. If the French army had beaten Saddam army in Kuwait one on one I would consider such an army battle hardened. you can list the 400 operations - most of them are part of multi-national force. Or they are against some tribal chief in Africa

with friends like france germany has no need for rearm. the only real threat to germany is Russia which is a nuclear one.

Vietnam was a defeat. The most potent force of this world also lost in Vietnam. Algeria was more like a political defeat rather than a military defeat. Algeria would have got its independence one year or another,this was inevitable. (For lot of reasons,either internal or external)

Most of US's recent wars and operations were conducted with multi-national forces,does that mean this force can't be considered as "battle hardened" ?

BTW,if you think France's only fighting against "some tribal chiefs" in Africa,you clearly have no knowledge about the issues and matters in the region,nor what's opposing France and the Africans there. (The Americans learned it at Tongo Tongo)
 
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